Terms and Conditions

[Vall]

Actually, that was Paul stating that salvation and the promise of eternal life can be forfeited through sin, not me, so your argument is with him, not me

I have no arguments with scripture for what I believe is for my salvation and how I receive scripture is only for me and never a argument with another for in the blink of an eye from death I will meet Jesus and give an account with no yay or nay Sayers for or against me as will we all.

 

[GracePeace]

I have no arguments with scripture for what I believe is my for my salvation and how I receive scripture is only for me and never a argument with another for in the blink of an eye from death I will meet Jesus and give an account with no yay or nay Sayers for or against me as will we all.

You accused me of wrongly using the Old Testament, but all I was doing was quoting Paul correctly using the Old Testament, so you have no valid objection to my point.

 

[Vall]

You accused me of wrongly using the Old Testament, but all I was doing was quoting Paul correctly using the Old Testament, so you have no valid objection to my point.

Where was Paul at the time the old testament was written .....Was Paul a Levite ... was he a Pharisee or was Paul a disciple of Jesus Christ so in that manner sir you have done what you say you have not.

 

[GracePeace]

Where was Paul at the time the old testament was written .....Was Paul a Levite ... was he a Pharisee or was Paul a disciple of Jesus Christ so in that manner sir you have done what you say you have not.

Paul cited the OT to teach us about Christianity--he specifically stated "these things were written for us".
Not difficult to understand it applies to us.

 

[Vall]

Paul cited the OT to teach us about Christianity--he specifically stated "these things were written for us".
Not difficult to understand it applies to us.

Then I suppose Paul is to be glorified instead of Jesus for he is the truth the way and life whilst also the judge of all and openly admitted that he does the things he should not do ...... oh snap I'm thinking Paul was saying he recognized no matter how hard he tried he could not live without sinning much to his disappointment.

 

[GracePeace]

Then I suppose Paul is to be glorified instead of Jesus for he is the truth the way and life whilst also the judge of all and openly admitted that he does the things he should not do ...... oh snap I'm thinking Paul was saying he recognized no matter how hard he tried he could not live without sinning much to his disappointment.

1. No, Paul gives the glory to God "I was abundant in labors above them all, yet not I but the grace with me".
2. Romans 7:
a. Describes the life of a Jew "under Law", who is thus "mastered by sin" (Ro 6:14), so it's not a Christian,
b. Describes the life of a Jew "in the flesh" (Ro 7:5), but believers are "not in the flesh but in the spirit" (Ro 8:9), so it's not a Christian.
c. The Jew in Romans 7 could not keep the Law, but Paul, as a Christian, does keep the Law (Ro 8:4), so it's not Paul as a Christian.
d. Paul, as a Christian, says his conscience is clear (1 Co 4:1-5), so it isn't Paul as a Christian.
e. Paul says coveters have no inheritance in God's Kingdom, but the Ro 7 man is completely filled with coveting, so, if you think that's Paul, then you think that Paul has no inheritance in God's Kingdom.
f. The Romans 7 guy is Sin's "captive", but the Christian is "set free" (Ro 8:2).

 

[Earburner]

I have been a Christian for longer than I'd like to admit (because my life doesn't really show it), and I've studied questions of serving God for a good while, and you'd think I'd have the answers I need by now, but it could be my pride and arrogance that makes God want to hide the truth from me.

I just have trouble understanding what I'm supposed to be thinking when I'm doing good works--and, apparently, it really matters.

One could argue both Paul and Peter did similar actions--they behaved one way in front of Jews, and another way in front of Gentiles--yet only Peter was condemned as "not walking according to the truth", and Paul pronounces false teachers (who basically taught what Peter was teaching/exemplifying) "accursed".
What was the difference? Paul did it "so that I may win souls" (1 Co 9), and Peter did it "because he feared the Jews". What ever was in their minds while they worked was what counted.

So, what is "the truth" I am supposed to be motivated by when I do works?

By my reading of Scripture, it seems like I'm working to save myself, but, in my personal walk with the Lord, my encounters, it seems like that line of thinking, that motivation, is not permissible.

There is a middle road, though: Jesus calls God's will "food".
Though it is technically true, no one sits down to eat, thinking, "If I don't eat, I will die."
Again, it is technically true, but no one is motivated to eat by that thought.
(Not unless you're living under exceptional circumstances.)

Romans 8:12 says we're "indebted" to God.
Before, we were indebted because of our sins; now, Christ forgave us, and we have a new form of debt.
Perhaps it is gratitude?

I just fail to see how I am supposed to be "grateful" for a job "half" done.
From my reading of passages like Mt 25, where the "lazy" (ie, not willing to work, or not working at all) servant is condemned to hell fire, and Ro 2:6-16, it seems salvation depends on my working together with grace, yet the Scripture, which cannot be broken, says God alone is the Savior (Is 43:11), so, if you try to save yourself with your works, apparently, you're committing idolatry, you think you're God.

I'm just really confused, and, honestly, pretty worn out, by all of these things.
I can't find an answer.

I have one situation that Jesus Himself was involved with, that should clear your mind and heart of the frustrations that most professing christians go through. The story of Martha and Mary.
But first let's read this verse:
Mat. 11
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls [inwardly, in our minds and hearts].

Jesus' "yoke" is not of a team of Oxen to go and plough fields, or to haul heavy burdens, with cares and worries over WHAT we should DO, but rather it is what He Himself WILL DO through us.

We didn't "team up" with Jesus, He teams up with us, and then takes the position of "Team Leader" within each of us. That is, if we let Him.
When we, on a daily basis, make ourselves available to Him (Rom. 22:1), at any time He may choose to work through us, but then not work through us for a couple of weeks, or even months. So now what? Rest in Him, as He said, and learn of Him.

Martha and Mary:
Luke 10
[38] Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
[39] And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
[40] But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
[41] And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
[42] But one thing is NEEDFUL: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Rev. 3
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Now, my question: Who saved YOU from eternal death?
No amount of good works, that you choose, will ever keep YOU saved!
Heb. 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[GracePeace]

I have one situation that Jesus Himself was involved with, that should clear your mind and heart of the frustrations that most professing christians go through. The story of Martha and Mary.
But first let's read this verse:
Mat. 11
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls [inwardly, in our minds and hearts].

Jesus' "yoke" is not of a team of Oxen to go and plough fields, or to haul heavy burdens, with cares and worries over WHAT we should DO, but rather it is what He Himself WILL DO through us.

We didn't "team up" with Jesus, He teams up with us, and then takes the position of "Team Leader" within each of us. That is, if we let Him.
When we, on a daily basis, make ourselves available to Him (Rom. 22:1), at any time He may choose to work through us, but then not work through us for a couple of weeks, or even months. So now what? Rest in Him, as He said, and learn of Him.

Martha and Mary:
Luke 10
[38] Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
[39] And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
[40] But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
[41] And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
[42] But one thing is NEEDFUL: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Rev. 3
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Now, my question: Who saved YOU from eternal death?
No amount of good works, that you choose, will ever keep YOU saved!
Heb. 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Yes, we are saved, and Paul says that that salvation is like the Jews' salvation from Egypt--yet they sinned and fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise.

1 Co 9:27 - 1 Co 10
27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

That said, there is a stipulation that "fear has to do with torment" (1 J 4:18), and that fear characterizes the "slavery" of those "under Law" (Ro 8:15; Gal 4:23,24), and that "the Law is weakened through the flesh" (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), so that even correctly understanding all of these truths about how we must do good works after salvation can still lead to an incorrect conclusion that we should serve fearfully, in which case God will not work (Deut 32:26,27; Judges 7:2+) but leave us to the flesh which we are leaning on which will not lead to acceptable righteousness.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I have been a Christian for longer than I'd like to admit (because my life doesn't really show it), and I've studied questions of serving God for a good while, and you'd think I'd have the answers I need by now, but it could be my pride and arrogance that makes God want to hide the truth from me.

I just have trouble understanding what I'm supposed to be thinking when I'm doing good works--and, apparently, it really matters.

One could argue both Paul and Peter did similar actions--they behaved one way in front of Jews, and another way in front of Gentiles--yet only Peter was condemned as "not walking according to the truth", and Paul pronounces false teachers (who basically taught what Peter was teaching/exemplifying) "accursed".
What was the difference? Paul did it "so that I may win souls" (1 Co 9), and Peter did it "because he feared the Jews". What ever was in their minds while they worked was what counted.

So, what is "the truth" I am supposed to be motivated by when I do works?

By my reading of Scripture, it seems like I'm working to save myself, but, in my personal walk with the Lord, my encounters, it seems like that line of thinking, that motivation, is not permissible.

There is a middle road, though: Jesus calls God's will "food".
Though it is technically true, no one sits down to eat, thinking, "If I don't eat, I will die."
Again, it is technically true, but no one is motivated to eat by that thought.
(Not unless you're living under exceptional circumstances.)

Romans 8:12 says we're "indebted" to God.
Before, we were indebted because of our sins; now, Christ forgave us, and we have a new form of debt.
Perhaps it is gratitude?

I just fail to see how I am supposed to be "grateful" for a job "half" done.
From my reading of passages like Mt 25, where the "lazy" (ie, not willing to work, or not working at all) servant is condemned to hell fire, and Ro 2:6-16, it seems salvation depends on my working together with grace, yet the Scripture, which cannot be broken, says God alone is the Savior (Is 43:11), so, if you try to save yourself with your works, apparently, you're committing idolatry, you think you're God.

I'm just really confused, and, honestly, pretty worn out, by all of these things.
I can't find an answer.

I have been a Christian for longer than I'd like to admit (because my life doesn't really show it), and I've studied questions of serving God for a good while, and you'd think I'd have the answers I need by now, but it could be my pride and arrogance that makes God want to hide the truth from me.

I just have trouble understanding what I'm supposed to be thinking when I'm doing good works--and, apparently, it really matters.

One could argue both Paul and Peter did similar actions--they behaved one way in front of Jews, and another way in front of Gentiles--yet only Peter was condemned as "not walking according to the truth", and Paul pronounces false teachers (who basically taught what Peter was teaching/exemplifying) "accursed".
What was the difference? Paul did it "so that I may win souls" (1 Co 9), and Peter did it "because he feared the Jews". What ever was in their minds while they worked was what counted.

So, what is "the truth" I am supposed to be motivated by when I do works?

By my reading of Scripture, it seems like I'm working to save myself, but, in my personal walk with the Lord, my encounters, it seems like that line of thinking, that motivation, is not permissible.

There is a middle road, though: Jesus calls God's will "food".
Though it is technically true, no one sits down to eat, thinking, "If I don't eat, I will die."
Again, it is technically true, but no one is motivated to eat by that thought.
(Not unless you're living under exceptional circumstances.)

Romans 8:12 says we're "indebted" to God.
Before, we were indebted because of our sins; now, Christ forgave us, and we have a new form of debt.
Perhaps it is gratitude?

I just fail to see how I am supposed to be "grateful" for a job "half" done.
From my reading of passages like Mt 25, where the "lazy" (ie, not willing to work, or not working at all) servant is condemned to hell fire, and Ro 2:6-16, it seems salvation depends on my working together with grace, yet the Scripture, which cannot be broken, says God alone is the Savior (Is 43:11), so, if you try to save yourself with your works, apparently, you're committing idolatry, you think you're God.

I'm just really confused, and, honestly, pretty worn out, by all of these things.
I can't find an answer.

I don't think you're neurotic at all.

I think you want to be approved and pleasing to God and you're not all that secure in how to do this.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - Worldwide English (New Testament)

Do not do good things so that people will see you do them. If you do, you will get no reward from your Father in heaven. `So when you give money to poor people, do not send men in front of you to blow trumpets or horns. Some people do this in the meeting houses and on the streets so that people...

www.biblegateway.com

You know that old adage, let go and let God?

If you think to question,will this please God,before you do something good for someone,you've missed the mark. Because you're thinking of something related to how it will benefit you first.

If you relax and know you are indwelt with God's spirit, you can let go and trust where he leads you through impulse.


For example,someone in front of you at the grocery checkout has a baby. When the total of their order is a few dollars more than that person has and you feel led to pay that difference
And you do.

You are pleasing to God already because you trusted his call to a new covenant with just him and you. It is a relationship. A personal one with the greatest power in existence.The creator of all.

He called you to and by his free irrevocable gift of grace. He knew you before the womb. Your name was written in his Lambs Book of Life before the foundation of this world.

Trust he knew what he was doing when he called you to him. Relax and follow your heart. You are his temple.

Be still and know...


God bless.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't think you're neurotic at all.

I think you want to be approved and pleasing to God and you're not all that secure in how to do this.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - Worldwide English (New Testament)

Do not do good things so that people will see you do them. If you do, you will get no reward from your Father in heaven. `So when you give money to poor people, do not send men in front of you to blow trumpets or horns. Some people do this in the meeting houses and on the streets so that people...

www.biblegateway.com

You know that old adage, let go and let God?

If you think to question,will this please God,before you do something good for someone,you've missed the mark. Because you're thinking of something related to how it will benefit you first.

If you relax and know you are indwelt with God's spirit, you can let go and trust where he leads you through impulse.


For example,someone in front of you at the grocery checkout has a baby. When the total of their order is a few dollars more than that person has and you feel led to pay that difference
And you do.

You are pleasing to God already because you trusted his call to a new covenant with just him and you. It is a relationship. A personal one with the greatest power in existence.The creator of all.

He called you to and by his free irrevocable gift of grace. He knew you before the womb. Your name was written in his Lambs Book of Life before the foundation of this world.

Trust he knew what he was doing when he called you to him. Relax and follow your heart. You are his temple.

Be still and know...


God bless.

I think that the recognition of peace on account of being right with God because of the righteousness of faith has to be anchored in something more than just the valid argumentation, and that something is love. It makes sense He wants me to have peace, not fear or be tormented (1 Jn 4), when I recall that He is love, and His whole program is one of love. Then the idea He wants me to be at peace, and the things He arranged in order for my soul to experience that sweetness, make sense, being anchored in a single overarching logically satisfying and spiritually satiating reality--His love.

As far as your encouragement that I trust God: it's good to trust God, but we will differ on how to arrive at that trust, bc the bases you presented are, to me, not firm foundations (eg, I deny the "gift of grace" is "irrevocable", since, for example, the Gentiles who believed could afterward be cut off for infracting the Law of Faith (Ro 3:27,11:17-23;1 J 3:23+), as actually occurred with the Galatians (Gal 1:6, 3:1-3, 5:4,7); and people in God's Book who "sin against Me" are "blotted out", etc).

 

[Earburner]

Yes, we are saved, and Paul says that that salvation is like the Jews' salvation from Egypt--yet they sinned and fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise.

1 Co 9:27 - 1 Co 10
27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

That said, there is a stipulation that "fear has to do with torment" (1 J 4:18), and that fear characterizes the "slavery" of those "under Law" (Ro 8:15; Gal 4:23,24), and that "the Law is weakened through the flesh" (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), so that even correctly understanding all of these truths about how we must do good works after salvation can still lead to an incorrect conclusion that we should serve fearfully, in which case God will not work (Deut 32:26,27; Judges 7:2+) but leave us to the flesh which we are leaning on which will not lead to acceptable righteousness.

Mat. 25:1-12
[11] Afterward came also the other [foolish] virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
> what were the foolish virgins lacking?

Mat. 7:20-23
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
> what were the many professing christians lacking?

The answer to all of the above is: they were lacking the Gift of God's Holy Spirit within them, the vehicle of God's Righteousness, and therefore have no other resolve for righteousness, but to do their own good works (2 Tim. 3:5), seeking God's acceptance of them.
John 3:3-8; Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20.
Rom. 8:8-9.

 

[GracePeace]

Mat. 25:1-12
[11] Afterward came also the other [foolish] virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
> what were the foolish virgins lacking?

Mat. 7:20-23
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
> what were the many professing christians lacking?

The answer to all of the above is: they were lacking the Gift of God's Holy Spirit within them, the vehicle of God's Righteousness, and therefore have no other resolve for righteousness, but to do their own good works (2 Tim. 3:5), seeking God's acceptance of them.
John 3:3-8; Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20.
Rom. 8:8-9.

Nope, you can have the spirit but not listen--"obey, for it is God at work in you".

 

[Earburner]

Yes, we are saved, and Paul says that that salvation is like the Jews' salvation from Egypt--yet they sinned and fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise.

1 Co 9:27 - 1 Co 10
27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

That said, there is a stipulation that "fear has to do with torment" (1 J 4:18), and that fear characterizes the "slavery" of those "under Law" (Ro 8:15; Gal 4:23,24), and that "the Law is weakened through the flesh" (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), so that even correctly understanding all of these truths about how we must do good works after salvation can still lead to an incorrect conclusion that we should serve fearfully, in which case God will not work (Deut 32:26,27; Judges 7:2+) but leave us to the flesh which we are leaning on which will not lead to acceptable righteousness.

Everyone here needs to take a look at the repentant thief on the cross.

 

[GracePeace]

Everyone here needs to take a look at the repentant thief on the cross.

No one here is the thief on the cross--they have much longer races of faith to run than he did.

 

[Earburner]

No one here is the thief on the cross--they have much longer races of faith to run than he did.

And WHAT might ask shall you add to the foundation of Christ, that He has already performed, that SAVED you in the first place?
To seek additional means of salvation, is to distrust Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

And WHAT might ask shall you add to the foundation of Christ, that He has already performed, that SAVED you in the first place?
To seek additional means of salvation, is to distrust Christ.

Already showed you 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10, and you had no answer.

 

[Earburner]

Nope, you can have the spirit but not listen--"obey, for it is God at work in you".

Obey what? To have the Holy Spirit of God, is to be sealed unto the day of redemption.
To be "born again of His Spirit", that is HOW we are to obey the Gospel message of Christ.

Sorry that it is too simple for you, but that is all, that it is all about. Rom. 8:9.
I have already shown the scriptures. But, here is another: John 3:18.

 

[marks]

I'm just really confused, and, honestly, pretty worn out, by all of these things.
I can't find an answer.

Serving under fear will do that to you. Understanding you are reconciled to God through Jesus and not your own behavior liberates you from that fear if you will believe it.

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

John, in his first letter, tells us our two commandments, Trust Jesus, and love others. Just do those the best you can, and any time you feel afraid or under threat, trust Jesus, He loves you, and saves you.

I can be the same way, and there was a time it wore me out also. The answer I've found it this. It's about Him, and not about me. I cling to Him, and He rescues me.

I pray He will reveal to you your safety in His hands!

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Obey what? To have the Holy Spirit of God, is to be sealed unto the day of redemption.
To be "born again of His Spirit", that is HOW we are to obey the Gospel message of Christ.

Sorry that it is too simple for you, but that is all, that it is all about. Rom. 8:9.
I have already shown the scriptures. But, here is another: John 3:18.

1. Sealed--that's why it says not to grieve the Holy Spirit, so He doesn't leave.
2a. It's Paul who said "obey for it is God at work in you"--obey the working of God. When Christians sin, they're not obeying that working.
2b. No, "obedience" is not "obey the Gospel message", it has to do with "walking after the Spirit"--those who disregard His instruction, it is warned that you're risking the Spirit not being supplied to you (1 Th 4:8), as David cried, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, do not take your Spirit away from me," since you are not abiding in Christ (1 J 2:28, 3:23+), since only those who obey the twfold command 1) "Believe on the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (ie, "walk in faith"--"faith works by love" so walking in faith is walking in love), in Whom "there is no sin", thus are not sharing in the "no condemnation" for those "in Christ" (Ro 8:1), but are "condemned" (Ro 14:23), since you're not revealing God's righteousness "from faith to faith" (Ro 1:16), but have done what you "doubted", thus "sinned" (Ro 14:5,23).
That's what the "obedience" is about in Php 2:12,13.

Don't take my word for it, though; if you pray about these things, I'm sure the Lord will confirm His Word to you.

 

[GracePeace]

Serving under fear will do that to you. Understanding you are reconciled to God through Jesus and not your own behavior liberates you from that fear if you will believe it.

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

John, in his first letter, tells us our two commandments, Trust Jesus, and love others. Just do those the best you can, and any time you feel afraid or under threat, trust Jesus, He loves you, and saves you.

I can be the same way, and there was a time it wore me out also. The answer I've found it this. It's about Him, and not about me. I cling to Him, and He rescues me.

I pray He will reveal to you your safety in His hands!

Much love!

Through talking with other Christians, I have received the grace of prayer, and, through that, have received many answers I could not find without praying. I think discussion is integral, but not because others have answers, it's just the grace they have that opens my eyes.