NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

[covenantee]

Yes, but His promises were not new in the sense that He had never made them before.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Better promises are new promises.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Abrahamic Covenant promises were made to Abraham and to Christ. Galatians 3:16

Under the New Will and Testament in the Blood of Jesus the Divine Testator, He is declared to be the sole Heir of all things. Hebrews 1:1,2

That includes all of the Abrahamic promises.

Unregenerate Israel is the heir of nothing under the New Will and Testament.

You desperately attempt to dispossess Jesus as the sole Heir of all things, and replace Him with unregenerate Israel.

You fail.

Abrahamic covenant


Gen 12

12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

gen 15:

God’s Covenant with Abram​

15 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, [a]your exceedingly great reward.”
2 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I [b]go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one[c] born in my house is my heir!”
4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

gen 17:

No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Unless eternal has ended. this covenant is still binding.

You should know about covenants and their validity, especially since you use the word as your name.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Better promises are new promises.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heaven is better than land.

it does nto negate the land..

 

[covenantee]

Abrahamic covenant


Gen 12

12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

gen 15:

God’s Covenant with Abram​

15 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, [a]your exceedingly great reward.”
2 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I [b]go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one[c] born in my house is my heir!”
4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

gen 17:

No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Unless eternal has ended. this covenant is still binding.

You should know about covenants and their validity, especially since you use the word as your name.

Christ established the New Testament/Covenant. There are no promises in it for unregenerate Israel. It completely transcends the old.

You're stuck in the old.

 

[PinSeeker]

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Better in the sense that they are of a more excellent or effective type or quality. The blood of unblemished lambs never made anything perfect, but the blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God... Just before your quote from Hebrews 8 here, we read in Hebrews 7:18-19, "For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God." The intent of both ~ why they were given by God ~ was the same, but the first (the lesser) was inadequate to accomplish that intent, then and now.

Better promises are new promises.

Yes, I agree: better, but not different in their true iteration or their intent. It's not 'a' to 'b' or 'A' to 'B' or even 'a' to 'B,' but rather... 'a' to 'A' ~ lesser to greater. All God's promises ~ not just New Testament promises ~ have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ.

Again, concerning the Law, Jesus did not abrogate or rescind or nullify the Law, but stated ~ and fulfilled ~ its true scope, thereby giving us the Law of Christ, as Paul calls it, which always was, is, and will be its true, greater form, which He Himself embodies and He clarifies to us by saying that the sum of the Law is in two commandments, the first being to love God (which corresponds to and truly/fully expresses Commandments 1 through 4) and to love neighbor (which corresponds to and truly/fully expresses Commandments 5 through 10).

Jesus Christ is the full embodiment of the one everlasting Covenant, collectively shown in its lesser iterations of life (covenant with Adam and then renewed with Noah), land (covenant with Abraham), the Law (covenant with Moses), and kingship (covenant with David). And Jesus, as you know, says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Well, this can be related (and is, of course) to what we've been talking about, but now you're talking about God's elect ~ people, Covenantee, not things, like life, land, a forever king, etc. Ultimately, God is making all things (and people, his elect) new (Revelation 21:5), which means fully redeeming/restoring them. We can tie both together with, again, what I said before, these very Biblical ideas of lesser and greater.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Heaven is better than land.

Well, the whole earth, which the meek will inherit (Matthew 5:5), is better (greater) than... the sliver of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea (lesser).

it does nto negate the land..

Agree!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Zao is life]

You didn't respond to my question: Are you affiliated with the Swedenborgians? You have advertised a church that bears resemblance to that movement.

Who do you think you are? Demanding a reply to an accusative question like that, that only God has the right to ask - and already knows the reply to?

I have not advertised any church, LIAR.

You do not display the fruit of the Spirit my friend.

NOW,

God has such a special place for the Jewish people that He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus to die for their sins.

I care about the will of God, not about your feelings or the sensitivities of anyone who does not care about the will of God. So whoever feels that the words of Jesus hurts his feelings, and whoever is offended by the words of Jesus because they hurt the feelings of others (as you are), so be it unto them, but you will not demand it of me (a condition to your 'apology' is NO apology):

But even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up, so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God. -- John 3:14-21

PAUL:

I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not!

Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the remnant who have not been broken off and participated in the richness of the olive root, do not boast over the branches that have been broken off. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Then you will say, "The branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith.

Do not be arrogant, but fear! For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God - harshness toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

IF

And even they - IF they do not continue in their unbelief - will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree? -- Rom.11:11-12, 17-24

So Paul made it clear that their fall is not irrevocable - because IF they do not continue in unbelief, God will graft them in again.

OTHERWISE THEY REMAIN BROKEN OFF. It's absolutely no different for the Jew than for the Gentile - except that the Gentile who does not believe had never been born into a nation that at one time ALL had a covenant relationship with God that some of them were broken off from because of their unbelief.

I'm not going to enter into endless debate with you about this. My post #111 makes it abundantly clear that my position is on the side of Christ, not on the side of anyone whose sensitivities are offended by HIS doctrine.

Christ's doctrine - GOD'S CONDITION FOR THE SALVATION OF JEWS AND GENTILES - does not change - NOT EVEN because some nations hate the Jews and the state called Israel with a diabolical, blind hatred, and other nations have dealt treacherously with the same state.

It's time you started telling all unbelieving Jews THE TRUTH because time is running out for them equally as much as it is for the Gentiles. Many Christians like yourself have made it obvious that you do not care about the carcasses of the Jews that are falling in the wilderness in their unbelief - those that - like unbelieving Gentiles - will NEVER enter His Kingdom.

Nor do I need to answer your ACCUSATIVE questions about whether or not I have ever followed some or other antisemitic organization. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO ASCRIBE WHAT ONLY GOD KNOWS THE ANSWER TO, TO ANYONE, JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE CARCASSES OF JEWS WHO ARE FALLING IN THE WILDERNESS IN THEIR UNBELIEF - AND SO YOU DO NOT CARE TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH ABOUT THEIR STATE OF NON-COVENANT WITH THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB, AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE BROKEN OFF FROM ISRAEL AS A RESULT?

Despite your age and your claim to all your "many years of studying these subjects", you have a GREAT DEAL to learn - both about your own fallacies AND about your subtle, prideful (false) accusations.

I DO NOT NEED TO ANSWER YOU, but for the sake of everyone who saw your accusative questions, I will:

I don't even know what organizations you are talking about, or anything about them, because I would never join in an organization spewing out conspiracy theories and diabolical lies about an entire nation - whether Jews or any other nation. I ignore all such talk.

Your 'apology' is no apology, because it comes with a condition, and a further demand that I 'inform' YOU (who are YOU?) about whether or not I was ever a member of some antisemitic group, together with the demand that I apologize to CHRIST for HIS DOCTRINE by apologizing to unbelieving Jews for 'being insensitive' about their spiritual state, as though they are less important to God than unbelieving Gentiles "because they are Jews".

That's what you do, and all those who follow your false doctrine regarding Israel. Because you ignore GOD'S condition: IF they repent of their unbelief, they will be grafted in again.

They have to be grafted in again, says Paul, because they have been broken off through their unbelief.

Do not talk to me again UNTIL you apologize unconditionally.

If you do, without apologizing unconditionally, I will ignore you, because I am sick of the slur - the false accusation - of antisemitism leveled by so-called Christians against ALL Christians who know what Christ's doctrine is regarding Israel, and more specifically, those among Jewish people who are broken off through their unbelief, who will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent of their unbelief.

It's time you learned to start differentiating between people who say they are Christians, and yet promote antisemitic propaganda, and those who do not - BEFORE you start throwing false accusations around against all Christians who disagree with you, just because we disagree with you because we know that your doctrine regarding Israel and Jewish people IS FALSE.

Personally, I have a heart for Jewish people all over the world - especially now. I support Israel because the Jews of Israel have the right to their own state, and are not like their enemies who hate them. Though Jesus taught us that there is only One who is good, i.e God (and we understand that it's true, and why), nevertheless there are unbelievers in the world who we all understand what we mean when we call them "good people". Most Jews I have ever met or seen are "good people" - especially the Jewish Christians in Israel with YouTube channels who are pretty persecuted by some Jews (though not all).

I love them. I love them all, both the save and the unsaved.

And I hate what I'm seeing today. I will never - God help me - on pain of death - stand with antisemitic sentiments or behavior, or join with those who do - God help me - not even if my life was under threat if I do not - but UNLIKE YOU, I will not go against Christ and His will for Jewish people to be told the truth about their condition before God IF they are in unbelief. It is NO DIFFERENT to Gentiles who do not believe. Broken off MEANS BROKEN OFF.

How many Jewish people have, like so many Gentiles, already perished in their unbelief, do you think?

Well, thanks to your doctrine and those who follow your doctrine, many are encouraged by "Christians" to believe they are God's chosen and therefore will enter into God's Messianic Kingdom.

But they are perishing along with all unbelieving Gentiles in their wilderness of unbelief.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ established the New Testament/Covenant. There are no promises in it for unregenerate Israel. It completely transcends the old.

You're stuck in the old.

No

I am stick with the promises of God.

Your stuck with a God that lies.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Only in your world

The abrahamic covenant still stands all of it..

It's an everlasting covenant.

Genesis 17:7 - The Renaming of Abraham

I will establish My covenant as an everlasting covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

biblehub.com

The Abrahamic Covenant - Bible Story, Verses and Meaning

The Abrahamic Covenant Bible story is found in the book of Genesis. God calls upon Abraham to go the land of Canaan where he promises to "make of him a great nation," a gift unto mankind through his descendants, all families of the world shall be blessed.

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[BlessedPeace]

You have no place to demand that I "get on my knees." I wouldn't be getting on my knees *for you!*

However, I will give you an apology, though I said I wouldn't, because reading back over what I said to you, I feel I was too harsh in calling you a liar. While it is true that what you said was "untrue," from my point of view, it does appear that I'm attacking your *motive.*

Being insensitive does not mean that your motive was malicious, even though to me it seemed like it. For that I apologize, brother. But you also need to apologize to the Jewish People for the implication in your comments that God had no special purpose for the Jewish People. At the very least you should explain this?

You didn't respond to my question: Are you affiliated with the Swedenborgians? You have advertised a church that bears resemblance to that movement.

I'd say by their angry reply that afforded no answer to your yes or no question, the answer is likely yes. They may be outraged because you figured it out.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Who do you think you are? Demanding a reply to an accusative question like that, that only God has the right to ask - and already knows the reply to?

I have not advertised any church, LIAR.​

I have given you my best apology, as you requested, in an attempt to preserve the peace between us. But I'm done with that now. I get my forgiveness from God. If you wish to perpetuate hostility, that's on you.

I was asking a question--I was not asking an "accusative question." So you are judging me falsely. Now I suppose you owe me an apology?

I did not lie. I asked, sincerely, if you were connected to Swedenborgian belief because I went to see "about" you on this forum, and what I thought may have been a "church" was mentioned in that place.

You can go there right now by clicking on your icon and the "region" indicates "New Jerusalem." Since that is not a town I wondered if it was your church denomination, which is in fact a denomination associated with Swedenborgian belief. CLICK It was also noted that you were *from* New Jerusalem, which leads to a map of church locations.

I think you were just trying to be clever, saying your "future region" will be the apocalyptic New Jerusalem. But I was just checking. I know nothing about the church.

The "New Church" or "The Church of the New Jerusalem" has an interest in biblical eschatology and has a cross vaguely like your icon. So I was just harmlessly asking--I know nothing, good or bad, about the Church.

I care about the will of God, not about your feelings or the sensitivities of anyone who does not care about the will of God.​

What a display of the "fruit of the Spirit!" You know, even if I meant things with a malicious motive, your responses are not a testimony to Christ's love, brother! Rein it back in please!

So whoever feels that the words of Jesus hurts his feelings, and whoever is offended by the words of Jesus because they hurt the feelings of others (as you are), so be it unto them, but you will not demand it of me (a condition to your 'apology' is NO apology):​

Sounds hypocritical to me. You should apologize not because my feelings are hurt, which they aren't, but for the reason I stated, that you're offensive to the Jewish People.

So Paul made it clear that their fall is not irrevocable - because IF they do not continue in unbelief, God will graft them in again.

OTHERWISE THEY REMAIN BROKEN OFF. It's absolutely no different for the Jew than for the Gentile - except that the Gentile who does not believe had never been born into a nation that at one time ALL had a covenant relationship with God that some of them were broken off from because of their unbelief.​

What are you hoping to prove here? Perhaps you're arguing with someone else? These things are not in dispute. I never argued the basis of Salvation for all men, nor did I say that God was partial.

Ethnic and nationalistic differences are not the basis of Salvation, and I have not said otherwise. What I was saying, however, is that ethnicity and nationality are important in God's program. He set a nation apart to distinguish between God's laws and paganism.

He did that with Israel. In doing that Israel was set apart as an elite nation--something you seemed to deny.

So we are talking about the call of God upon a nation, which in the NT is a call of God upon many nations. The call for many nations has not revoked God's call upon the nation Israel. The entire Bible was written to prove that Grace does not undo God's call but offers a way to fulfill it after it has seemed to initially fail.

It's time you started telling all unbelieving Jews THE TRUTH because time is running out for them equally as much as it is for the Gentiles. Many Christians like yourself have made it obvious that you do not care about the carcasses of the Jews that are falling in the wilderness in their unbelief - those that - like unbelieving Gentiles - will NEVER enter His Kingdom.​

You accuse me of being accusative and malicious. But listen to yourself!

You don't even know me and claim I don't care about the Salvation of the Jewish People. I visited Israel in 1976 and offered to join a kibbutz just south of Lebanon which at the time was under fire (and still is).

That didn't happen, but everything I've done is to declare to the Jews that Jesus, their Salvation, has come and is coming again. I encouraged a Jewish friend to make aliyah many years ago, which he did.

Even before that I sent some financial support to Jews for Jesus. Moshe Rosen is dead, but the organization is still going. I spent 10 years debating the differences in Messianic belief between Messianic Jews and Jews in Rabbinic Judaism. You don't know me, do you?

Nor do I need to answer your ACCUSATIVE questions about whether or not I have ever followed some or other antisemitic organization. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO ASCRIBE WHAT ONLY GOD KNOWS THE ANSWER TO, TO ANYONE, JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE CARCASSES OF JEWS WHO ARE FALLING IN THE WILDERNESS IN THEIR UNBELIEF - AND SO YOU DO NOT CARE TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH ABOUT THEIR STATE OF NON-COVENANT WITH THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB, AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE BROKEN OFF FROM ISRAEL AS A RESULT?​

You're out of control. Stop capitalizing your message. There is no volume on this forum! Capitalizing is viewed as intentional rudeness, but I'm trying not to judge you.

Despite your age and your claim to all your "many years of studying these subjects", you have a GREAT DEAL to learn - both about your own fallacies AND about your subtle, prideful (false) accusations.

I DO NOT NEED TO ANSWER YOU, but for the sake of everyone who saw your accusative questions, I will:

I don't even know what organizations you are talking about, or anything about them, because I would never join in an organization spewing out conspiracy theories and diabolical lies about an entire nation - whether Jews or any other nation. I ignore all such talk.​

I have no idea what Swedenborgianism is! I have no idea whether the "New Jerusalem church" is a conspiracy theory church!

Your 'apology' is no apology, because it comes with a condition, and a further demand that I 'inform' YOU (who are YOU?) about whether or not I was ever a member of some antisemitic group, together with the demand that I apologize to CHRIST for HIS DOCTRINE by apologizing to unbelieving Jews for 'being insensitive' about their spiritual state, as though they are less important to God than unbelieving Gentiles "because they are Jews".​

My apology did *not* come with any conditions. It is still there--I may have misjudged your intentions, and for that I apologize. That doesn't change the fact that what you said is untrue or at best appears to reflect current antisemitic thinking, that the Jews have no claim to be God's called people, that they have no basis for claiming a homeland in Palestine. If you wish to retract that representation or simply correct it, this is your opportunity to do so, or not.

That's what you do, and all those who follow your false doctrine regarding Israel. Because you ignore GOD'S condition: IF they repent of their unbelief, they will be grafted in again.​

I haven't ignored that at all. I don't demand the Jews instantly repent or else, that they respond to my message immediately simply because I'm doing that. I'm supposed to testify and leave the response to them. God changes hearts--not me. God reveals Himself--not my logic!

You aren't going to win the Jews by depreciating their original calling, or deny their status as "God's called People." That God called them is beyond dispute. What is disputed by some is whether they remain "called."

Do not talk to me again UNTIL you apologize unconditionally.​

I've gone as far as I'm going. A judgmental person will never be satisfied, because the real problem is gnawing at himself within.

If you do, without apologizing unconditionally, I will ignore you..​

Do what you want, brother. I'm here to serve God and not serve those who are disinterested in what I have to share. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow?

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'd say by their angry reply that afforded no answer to your yes or no question, the answer is likely yes. They may be outraged because you figured it out.

I think I may have gone too far to suppose that the Church of the New Jerusalem was his church. "New Jerusalem" was listed in the facts "about" him on his page. But since he was describing a "region," and not a "church," I probably should've recognized that he was being clever, referencing the biblical "New Jerusalem" and not a church!

However, at his "about" site he also indicated he was "from New Jerusalem," which references a map of church locations. So I just didn't know and was asking.

For all I know, if it was a cult, he could've being conveying a "double meaning," both the eschatological New Jerusalem and his own group. But honestly, I didn't have an agenda, and know absolutely nothing about the Church of the New Jerusalem except that they like Bible Prophecy. I thought that may have fit him, since we are in the Eschatology section.

He was dead wrong about my motives however. I suspected, due to his belief, that he may belong to a denomination that is a bit jaded--I was just looking for clues. I go where the truth takes me--not where my suspicions take me. But yes, this guy has a definite "anger" problem.

I get angry pretty quickly too. So God makes me have to be "understanding" to those, like me, who are quick to anger. God bless....

 

[covenantee]

No

I am stick with the promises of God.

Your stuck with a God that lies.

If Better Promises are lies, I'll take all the lies that God will give me.

 

[covenantee]

It's an everlasting covenant.

It is fulfilled in Christ.

He is Everlasting.

 

[covenantee]

It's an everlasting covenant.

Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Does circumcision signify an everlasting covenant?

 

[BlessedPeace]

No

I am stick with the promises of God.

Your stuck with a God that lies.

Psst, that would be Satan,the father of lies.

 

[BlessedPeace]

No

I am stick with the promises of God.

Your stuck with a God that lies.

This may help put some perspective on the Eisegesis of some of the posts in our community.

Christian Identity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[covenantee]

It's an everlasting covenant.

Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Does circumcision signify an everlasting covenant?

Are you afraid to answer?

 

[Zao is life]

You have no place to demand that I "get on my knees." I wouldn't be getting on my knees *for you!*

However, I will give you an apology, though I said I wouldn't, because reading back over what I said to you, I feel I was too harsh in calling you a liar. While it is true that what you said was "untrue," from my point of view, it does appear that I'm attacking your *motive.*

Being insensitive does not mean that your motive was malicious, even though to me it seemed like it. For that I apologize, brother. But you also need to apologize to the Jewish People for the implication in your comments that God had no special purpose for the Jewish People. At the very least you should explain this?

You didn't respond to my question: Are you affiliated with the Swedenborgians? You have advertised a church that bears resemblance to that movement.

I did not even imply you need to get on your knees for me. It should be - and I'm sure it is - very obvious that I was telling you to get on your knees before Christ and ask Him before falsely accusing people about their motives.

That, + what you insinuate about my motives for saying what I say in the OP of this thread are just two of the insinuations you have made in your "honest" approach to whatever you say to me, or whatever you say about what I said

That is, your dishonest, disingenuous and underhanded approach - which is why I legitimately let you know what you can do with it in my last post.

I apologize for becoming so angry regarding what you said about the words "New Jerusalem" and "Swedenborgians", unreservedly. I was not aware of any connection of the words "New Jerusalem" to any particular church group. In fact, I will change it in my profile now that I am aware of it *

* I tried but the system does not allow a change for that.

This is the only reason why I used that term in my profile:

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are written in Heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24)

You should have explained why you were asking and done so respectfully instead of in-between hurling insinuations and false accusations about my motives and false accusations about me "wanting to marginalize the Jews".

Your style is really wanting because it's questionable. The fruit of the Spirit is not there in your numerous false accusations and insinuations.​

 

[Zao is life]

I'd say by their angry reply that afforded no answer to your yes or no question, the answer is likely yes. They may be outraged because you figured it out.

LoL. The accuser of the brethren. Hurling false accusations against them.

You do so well. You should start a training school. Whoever you serve in this way will be pleased.