WWJD with LGBTQ?

[St. SteVen]

He ate and drank with sinners of all sorts who allowed Him to.

I think it was the religious leadership that shunned him, not the common folk.
Jesus was followed by crowds wherever he went.
They wanted to be with him, and he wanted to be with them.

Matthew 11:18-19 NIV
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard,
a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

/

 

[St. SteVen]

First of all he is Baptist, so likely cessationist and hasn't received the Holy Spirit since he believed (if he ever did truly come to faith). So limited power and limited understanding at best for that reason alone.

Seriously? That's not fair.
Being a Continuationist doesn't make you saved any more than being a Cessationist makes you "lost".
I didn't question his relationship with God at all. I saw him as a brave soul that God showed something to.
So, "limited power and limited understanding"? No way! IMHO

Secondly I notice he isn't preaching or teaching the word of God, only anecdotes and going by feelings. Is that what preachers and pastors are called to do? Preach and teach their own word, rather than the word of God??

He gets into preaching and apologetics in other videos.
Hopefully you understand that TedX is a secular institution.
He wasn't speaking at a church.

If you make it a gathering of unbelievers and sinners, what you have is no longer church,

In reality every church is "a gathering of unbelievers and sinners". None of us has arrived.
When an LGBT person arrives at our door, we should welcome them as one of our own. IMHO

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree completely.
So, why do you put so much emphasis on man-made doctrine?
Or put a magnifying glass on one passage while ignoring others?
(I do it too) Less now than I used to.

Your beautiful post above indicates a real childlike faith
and trust in a trustworthy God who loves us dearly and means the best for us.
(sorry, that was a lot to read into your post) Correct me if I overstated.

/

what man made doctrine. Do you see I put emphasis on? If I may ask

 

[St. SteVen]

Should Christians be unkind and rejecting of people who are still in their sins? Of course not!

Interesting how we magnify certain sins in others while turning a blind eye to our own.
Perhaps some plank removal of our own is in order, so we can see what we are doing when
we attempt to remove a speck in the other's eye? Judge not, lest ye be judged.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

what man made doctrine. Do you see I put emphasis on? If I may ask

That's a good question. Thanks.
If you remove the word "man-made" from my comment, it will make more sense to you.
I wasn't singling you out. From my perspective, all doctrine is man-made.
This is why there are conflicting doctrines out there, which are both biblical.

St. SteVen said:
I agree completely.
So, why do you put so much emphasis on man-made doctrine?
Or put a magnifying glass on one passage while ignoring others?
(I do it too) Less now than I used to.

Your beautiful post above indicates a real childlike faith
and trust in a trustworthy God who loves us dearly and means the best for us.
(sorry, that was a lot to read into your post) Correct me if I overstated.

'

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's a good question. Thanks.
If you remove the word "man-made" from my comment, it will make more sense to you.
I wasn't singling you out. From my perspective, all doctrine is man-made.
This is why there are conflicting doctrines out there, which are both biblical.

I think people see what they want to see when the read. Sadly the read the word to make it fit their belief system or what they have been taught. And not read the word to form their opinion or belief by the plain reading of scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Interesting how we magnify certain sins in others while turning a blind eye to our own.
Perhaps some plank removal of our own is in order, so we can see what we are doing when
we attempt to remove a speck in the other's eye? Judge not, lest ye be judged.

/

I wonder if the issue is like we see with the Palestine/isreal conflict.

You see all kinds of pro Palestine. Anti israel marches, and attacks all over the world. But you do not see any of these marches in support of Israel defending herself or protesting HAMAS for what they did, If these keeps on, I bet you will see Anti-Israel sentiment grow because that is what they see

in the same taken, you see churches protest and march against abortion or LGBT and even show violence.. Yet you do not see the protests AGAINST the people who protest. So in one sense. You have people thinking the church is violent and hateful, and in the other sense, you have people being more pro abortion or LGBT, and more anti-God

 

[St. SteVen]

I think people see what they want to see when the read. Sadly the read the word to make it fit their belief system or what they have been taught. And not read the word to form their opinion or belief by th explain reading of scripture.

Can you see that you and I are also guilty of the same thing?
We all approach the Bible with preconceptions of what it means.
And then gather our "proof-texts" to defend our preconceptions.

As you indicated, better to read the scriptures and let them speak into our lives.
Even if it rocks the doctrinal boat. - LOL

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can you see that you and I are also guilty of the same thing?
We all approach the Bible with preconceptions of what it means.
And then gather our "proof-texts" to defend our preconceptions.

As you indicated, better to read the scriptures and let them speak into our lives.
Even if it rocks the doctrinal boat. - LOL

/

I know I do it. I have been exposed and had to correct quite a few of my beliefs because I am open to truth. And open to think I may be wrong.

It is very freeing.. I thank God people prety much Got in my face and told me I was wrong. Then lovingly just asked me to investigate to see..

 

[St. SteVen]

I wonder if the issue is like we see with the Palestine/isreal conflict.

You see all kinds of pro Palestine. Anti israel marches, and attacks all over the world. But you do not see any of these marches in support of Israel defending herself or protesting HAMAS for what they did, If these keeps on, I bet you will see Anti-Israel sentiment grow because that is what they see

Antisemitism has been around as long as there have been Semites. - LOL
But anti-Israel sentiments have increased dramatically in recent history.
The Palestinians are portrayed as the victims.

in the same taken, you see churches protest and march against abortion or LGBT and even show violence.. Yet you do not see the protests AGAINST the people who protest. So in one sense. You have people thinking the church is violent and hateful, and in the other sense, you have people being more pro abortion or LGBT, and more anti-God

You can actually see counter-protest from those in the Pride march.
The hatred they see from anti-LGBTQ protestors is fueling some of their outrageous behavior.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I know I do it. I have been exposed and had to correct quite a few of my beliefs because I am open to truth. And open to think I may be wrong.

It is very freeing.. I thank God people prety much Got in my face and told me I was wrong. Then lovingly just asked me to investigate to see..

I agree, very freeing.

I can't say that I have gotten in your face, but have you learned anything new in our discussion about LGBT?

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can actually see counter-protest from those in the Pride march.
The hatred they see from anti-LGBTQ protestors is fueling some of their outrageous behavior.

/

I think you missed my point. I was not talking about the pro LGBT I was talking about the anti..

Why are there no marches against the anti.. saying this is not how we feel. Or protest against blowing Abortian clinics up.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree, very freeing.

I can't say that I have gotten in your face, but have you learned anything new in our discussion about LGBT?

/

I have learn that their is a scary welcome of it.. even amount churches.. But I knew this also.. Just did not expect it from you

 

[Lizbeth]

I think it was the religious leadership that shunned him, not the common folk.
Jesus was followed by crowds wherever he went.
They wanted to be with him, and he wanted to be with them.

Matthew 11:18-19 NIV
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard,
a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

/

He was doing miracles.....many crowds in the beginning but didn't you read how many stopped following Him as time went on.

That Matt. 11 scrip is similar to where He says He played a dirge and they wouldn't mourn, so He played a jig but they wouldn't dance. You can try all kinds of approaches but in the end it comes down to the willingness of the individual (and in an ultimate sense, God's choosing).

 

[St. SteVen]

I have learn that their is a scary welcome of it.. even amount churches.. But I knew this also.. Just did not expect it from you

Fair enough. Thanks for your respectful participation in the discussion. I really appreciate it.

But to be clear, I'm not welcoming rampant homosexual activity into the church.
I want to see healing come where there is tremendous hurt being inflicted by the church.
The church should not be a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Interesting how we magnify certain sins in others while turning a blind eye to our own.
Perhaps some plank removal of our own is in order, so we can see what we are doing when
we attempt to remove a speck in the other's eye? Judge not, lest ye be judged.

/

No doubt there is truth to that and we all need to look in the mirror. However keep in mind that the gospel is going to be rejected by most no matter what we do or how loving and compassionate our attitude is. We're not here to fix this broken world, but to rescue a few souls out of it before it is judged. As it was in the days of Noah.

And yes, true we are not to judge or condemn those outside, but we sure do need to judge in a certain sense those inside, otherwise lose the church to the world and sin.....which unfortunately is happening in spades today.

 

[St. SteVen]

We're not here to fix this broken world, but to rescue a few souls out of it before it is judged. As it was in the days of Noah.

Oh, my.
I think we ARE here to fix this broken world. Jesus gave us the tools for the job.
Too soon to pull up the draw bridge and give up on the world.

The gates of hell will not prevail when we storm the enemies fortress and take back what is rightfully his.
Which is how he said he would build his church.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Fair enough. Thanks for your respectful participation in the discussion. I really appreciate it.

But to be clear, I'm not welcoming rampant homosexual activity into the church.
I want to see healing come where there is tremendous hurt being inflicted by the church.
The church should not be a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

/

I agree here.. As I have said..

I want to see healing also.. of all people..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No doubt there is truth to that and we all need to look in the mirror. However keep in mind that the gospel is going to be rejected by most no matter what we do or how loving and compassionate our attitude is. We're not here to fix this broken world, but to rescue a few souls out of it before it is judged. As it was in the days of Noah.

And yes, true we are not to judge or condemn those outside, but we sure do need to judge in a certain sense those inside, otherwise lose the church to the world and sin.....which unfortunately is happening in spades today.

Amen, a little Leaven leaven’s the whole lump

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh, my.
I think we ARE here to fix this broken world. Jesus gave us the tools for the job.
Too soon to pull up the draw bridge and give up on the world.

The gates of hell will not prevail when we storm the enemies fortress and take back what is rightfully his.
Which is how he said he would build his church.

/

The bible says we are foreigners, this is not our world. The church is sent out to rescue those who are lost.

the world will not be fixed until Jesus returns. And even then, while things will be restored. It will not be perfect.