What is "OSAS"?

[mailmandan]

Thank you for your opinion. Have you any facts to back it up? I gave mine.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works/works of faith/works of obedience etc.. could a Christian do which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any genuine good works that Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law,. NOWHERE does Paul say that we are "saved by works" and when Paul says we are not saved by works, he is not merely limiting this to specific works under the law of Moses. Elsewhere, Paul makes it clear that we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) and he also makes it clear that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. (2 Timothy 1:9)

 

[Marymog]

I... decided what to accept about what is written, yes. In the very same sense in which you speak here, I would assert that you are "regurgitating" what your Catholic men have taught you.

Nope, I'm not regurgitating anything. I clearly gave the reasons for what I asserted. And I didn't even quote a catholic source.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nope, I'm not regurgitating anything. I clearly gave the reasons for what I asserted. And I didn't even quote a catholic source.

Okay, well, very well. Neither am I (regurgitating anything), and so did I (gave the reasons for what I asserted), and neither did I (quote a Catholic source... or a Protestant one).

Oh, and regarding what we're talking about here, merely branding what I'm saying as "Protestant doctrine" is not correct. There are many Protestants (and "Protestant teachers") who believe along the same lines you do on this subject. What's really going on here is at least one part of the divide between Augustine and Pelagius, and later Calvin and Arminius.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ezra]

Are you saying we can live a sinful life and still be Christians?

NO NOT AT ALL but we do and will sin it means we can be secure in our salvation if we sin and we will we do have a advocate

 

[ScottA]

acknowledging the whole truth.

Lol...Acknowledge who's truth? YOUR truth?

 

[ScottA]

Hey Scott,

You have articulated your interpretation of that passage (1 John 3:9) very well. Thank you.

It seems many THINK they are saved, but they really may not be AND we will never know IF we are saved until our last day.

Mary

That is not the conclusion that I would advocate. But rather that certainly the saved know they are saved, while the unsaved are simply unsure in spite of many of them being hopeful...which is not the same thing.

 

[Marymog]

Okay, well, very well. Neither am I (regurgitating anything), and so did I (gave the reasons for what I asserted), and neither did I (quote a Catholic source... or a Protestant one).

Oh, and regarding what we're talking about here, merely branding what I'm saying as "Protestant doctrine" is not correct. There are many Protestants (and "Protestant teachers") who believe along the same lines you do on this subject. What's really going on here is at least one part of the divide between Augustine and Pelagius, and later Calvin and Arminius.

Grace and peace to you.

Ummmm......According to the widely accepted definition of "Protestant" that is accepted worldwide by scholars and written in the dictionary.....I am correct. Protestant defined: a member or follower of any of the Western Christian churches that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church and follow the principles of the Reformation, including the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches.

Yes, there are some Protestants that still accept the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. Some have rejected it which started the Protestant Revolution that divided Christianity. Who wants Christians divided? Hint: his name starts with an "S"!

 

[ScottA]

In that verse, Scott... well, I'll just quote it and then comment and a question:

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:9)​

Comment:
One can do something without actually making a practice of it. And then that one, after realizing his/her error, cannot keep on willfully sinning in that way. This is the case with Christians. He's talking about a willfulness, intentional wrongdoing. Previous to being born again of the Spirit, one does not acknowledge sin at all, and therefore makes a practice of it. A Christian ~ one born again of God ~ does not do this. But John is not saying a Christian no longer sins. Which leads me to the question...

Question: If you cite that verse as proof that Christians do not sin, then I would ask how you reconcile that with what John himself says earlier in this very letter:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)​

Paul is very clear in Romans 7 that even he still does the things he knows he ought not to do, and still does not do the very things he knows he should do. Because of the fallenness of human nature, we Christians cannot completely avoid sin. That surely does not mean we needn't try to avoid sin; surely we should, for the glory of God. And as Paul says, because we are Christians, because we are in Christ ~ based on our being clothed in His righteousness ~ we are not condemned for sin any more. Disciplined, yes, for sure, but no longer condemned. And forgiven when we confess.

Grace and peace to you.

First, it is important to recognize and understand that much of what is written regarding the salvation of Christ, i.e., the born again of the spirit of God, was written on the cusp of salvation's firstfruits. Meaning that some of what is written was to those yet approaching salvation, while other passages were not written to them, but to those who had in fact already crossed the threshold between death and life everlasting. This is what Paul referred to regarding the need of "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, if we wrongly believe that a passage applies to the saved when it does not, but applies to the unsaved (or vice versa), then the words are true, but we are wrong in our belief, as we have not "rightly divided the word of truth."

So, back to your question. The scriptures--specifically "one is taken and the other left", indicates that the man of flesh is divided from the new born man of spirit just as God divided the light from the darkness-- meaning that 1 John 3:9 refers to the new man born [again] of the spirit of God, while 1 John 1:8-9 pertains only to that "man of sin revealed" in the flesh.

Paul then (in Romans 7) refers to the fact that "we who are alive and remain"--alive in the spirit but remain in the flesh and in the world, after being born again of the spirit...are prone to struggle under the weight of the flesh, which Christ alone was able to perfectly endure. Which ought to have been words of encouragement for those who would otherwise be confused by the experience of having been made alive in Christ while still carrying that old man of sin across the finish line. Incidentally, this is the very thing that Jesus foreshadowed between His resurrection and His ascension--40 days, the days of embalming, meaning to "put forth" (נַט chânaṭ, khaw-nat') fruit. Although unlike us, He did it perfectly, carrying the marks of sin in His flesh until His full ascension into the presence of the Father where flesh and blood cannot accompany.

 

[PinSeeker]

Ummmm......According to the widely accepted definition of "Protestant" that is accepted worldwide by scholars and written in the dictionary.....I am correct. Protestant defined: a member or follower of any of the Western Christian churches that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church and follow the principles of the Reformation, including the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches.

I said regarding what we are/were talking about here, namely soteriology, the doctrine of salvation. Many would agree with you, in the same vein as Pelagius and Jacobus Arminius, as I said. Not nearly all Protestants ~ especially here in the West ~ follow the principles of the Reformation or are reformed in their beliefs with regard to soteriology.

Yes, there are some Protestants that still accept the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. Some have rejected it which started the Protestant Revolution that divided Christianity. Who wants Christians divided? Hint: his name starts with an "S"!

That's a bit strange that you would characterize it that way; the purpose of Martin Luther in nailing his ninety-five theses to the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany and Reformers like John Calvin who followed shortly thereafter) was certainly not to divide, but to expose abuse and corruption by Catholic clergy, who were selling "plenary indulgences," certificates supposed to reduce the temporal punishment in purgatory for sins committed by the purchasers or their loved ones... and more generally to return Christianity to the truths of the Word of God.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we do and will sin

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

This perverted and sinful generation is lost.

Probably under the strong delusion mentioned here:

“…God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

 

[amigo de christo]

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

This perverted and sinful generation is lost.

Probably under the strong delusion mentioned here:

“…God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

I give you this challenge my friend . Though you probably already know this .
Many within the realm of christainity now embrace a wordly version of love
they believe so that it is of GOD . AND YET upon examination of this love
ye shall see IT HATES BIBLICAL CORRECTION o sin . ITS Love embraces all paths and religoins . Again A LIE .
Its love loveth a lie and not rather THE TRUTH . Its love rejoices in INQUITY and NOT RATHER IN TRUTH .
THUS IT AINT COMING FROM GOD but rather from He who always desired the worship as GOD , to be AS GOD .
AND NO MAN WANTS TO FOLLOW THAT ONE TO PERDITOIN . and yet many DO .

 

[amigo de christo]

The dragon and his co workers have indeed crept within the christain realm
to do one thing . the work of the devil is to cause all to beleive a lie .
To love and embrace a lie .
Yet many see this dragon as THE LOVE GOD and many believe it to be GOD who is leading them to the promised land
on a very LARGE and VERY BROAD ALL INCLUSIVE PATH . but it aint gonna lead them to THE PROMISED LAND but rather
right to perdition . Satan has been judged and awaits his damnation , HE GONNA TAKE ANY AND ALL HE CAN WITH HIM TOO .
LAMBS wont be heeding this version of love he bringeth . Lambs gonna follow THE KING JESUS CHRIST and be dug in the scriptures .

 

[Ezra]

Marymog said:
Hey Scott,

You have articulated your interpretation of that passage (1 John 3:9) very well. Thank you.

It seems many THINK they are saved, but they really may not be AND we will never know IF we are saved until our last day.

Mary,, where did youi get that from? its not Bible at all it reads that we may know we have eternal life -->

1 John 5:13-15

King James Version

​

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him , that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


yes we can know if we have eternal life.

 

[amigo de christo]

Marymog said:
Hey Scott,

You have articulated your interpretation of that passage (1 John 3:9) very well. Thank you.

It seems many THINK they are saved, but they really may not be AND we will never know IF we are saved until our last day.

Mary,, where did youi get that from? its not Bible at all it reads that we may know we have eternal life -->

1 John 5:13-15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him , that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


yes we can know if we have eternal life.

IF one knows not whether they are saved and believeth they cant know for sure till the day they die .
THEN WHAT ON EARTH are THEY TRULY TRUSTING IN TO SAVE THEM . NOT JESUS , BUT SELF .
BOY do i got bad news , SELF cannot save us . BUT JESUS SURELY CAN .

 

[amigo de christo]

Marymog said:
Hey Scott,

You have articulated your interpretation of that passage (1 John 3:9) very well. Thank you.

It seems many THINK they are saved, but they really may not be AND we will never know IF we are saved until our last day.

Mary,, where did youi get that from? its not Bible at all it reads that we may know we have eternal life -->

1 John 5:13-15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him , that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


yes we can know if we have eternal life.

I guess to many they see the CROSS and CHRIST and say
Oh thanks JESUS , but this aint enough for me to be saved .
WELL that mindset wont be boding well on the DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .
TRUTH IS , TRUTH IS , TRUTH IS , ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE US . NOW BELEIVE N RECIEVE IT .

 

[Ezra]

I guess to many they see the CROSS and CHRIST and say
Oh thanks JESUS , but this aint enough for me to be saved .
WELL that mindset wont be boding well on the DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .
TRUTH IS , TRUTH IS , TRUTH IS , ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE US . NOW BELEIVE N RECIEVE IT .

i have ran on to those who really think you dont know till that day comes sorta like rolling the dice get lucky 7

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hey Rita,

Yes, one can produce works without the Spirit. An atheist can do good works.

No, that does not make sense. We work towards salvation by doing good deeds until our last day. On that last day if we have not done the good deeds God will repay according to what we have done OR not done (Romans 2:6) because it is by works (+faith) that we are justified (James 2:24).

Yes, Christians work for God through the Spirit in us. And if they continue those works till the end, they will be saved.

I have a RC Bible and Doctrines never once did i read about mans good works ever being portrayed as in relation to God or Christ Jesus !
I was shocked to see people who were RC make such claims as their works will get them into Heaven !
If one is not abiding in Christ Jesus then ones works are not his ? for such are of this world, that Jesus pointed out about this world is Full of deceptions and delusions in fact !
Now a good deed is a good deed, it's not a bad deed but it's not always worthy of God ? is it because it may bot be such a good deed after all, remember the old saying about a Jew bearing gifts ? a good deed ! but their may be a catch !
Lending money from another maybe a good deed but remember the small print or the catch, nothing much is give totally freely in fact. The Price will come down the track ? and maybe ones works will not cut it regarding Christ Jesus, for he never knew such a one, so this dude was not abiding in Christ Jesus in fact.

If i were to lend money ? to who ? for what ? would i lend to one who had an ill intent with such money !
If i were to invest my money ? with who ? one who had the highest percentage over the others regardless, so that the anti-Christ one gets to undermine Christ Jesus people ? So we have to have some regard to what we do is God willing ?

Casting things before swines is not a good intent, in fact it's a bad idea for they will only do injure. for they are Godless morons, who were just like they who did what such people did to Jesus in fact.

 

[PinSeeker]

First, it is important to recognize and understand that much of what is written regarding the salvation of Christ, i.e., the born again of the spirit of God, was written on the cusp of salvation's firstfruits. Meaning that some of what is written was to those yet approaching salvation, while other passages were not written to them, but to those who had in fact already crossed the threshold between death and life everlasting. This is what Paul referred to regarding the need of "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, if we wrongly believe that a passage applies to the saved when it does not, but applies to the unsaved (or vice versa), then the words are true, but we are wrong in our belief, as we have not "rightly divided the word of truth."

So, back to your question. The scriptures--specifically "one is taken and the other left", indicates that the man of flesh is divided from the new born man of spirit just as God divided the light from the darkness-- meaning that 1 John 3:9 refers to the new man born [again] of the spirit of God, while 1 John 1:8-9 pertains only to that "man of sin revealed" in the flesh.

Paul then (in Romans 7) refers to the fact that "we who are alive and remain"--alive in the spirit but remain in the flesh and in the world, after being born again of the spirit...are prone to struggle under the weight of the flesh, which Christ alone was able to perfectly endure. Which ought to have been words of encouragement for those who would otherwise be confused by the experience of having been made alive in Christ while still carrying that old man of sin across the finish line. Incidentally, this is the very thing that Jesus foreshadowed between His resurrection and His ascension--40 days, the days of embalming, meaning to "put forth" (נַט chânaṭ, khaw-nat') fruit. Although unlike us, He did it perfectly, carrying the marks of sin in His flesh until His full ascension into the presence of the Father where flesh and blood cannot accompany.

I'll ask it a different, even simpler way, Scott. Do you believe you no longer sin, that you are now sinless?

Grace and peace.

 

[ScottA]

I'll ask it a different, even simpler way, Scott. Do you believe you no longer sin, that you are now sinless?

Grace and peace.

Since the old me is now dead, I can only truthfully answer what is true by God of the new me born [again] of the spirit of God: I no longer sin and am sinless (which I do not "believe" but know).

Even so, it would not be right of me not to explain as did Paul, that since I am now among the "we who are alive and remain" in the world and in the flesh in the service of God--a mystery of God; although I myself am now a new creation of the Spirit, my old man even of flesh still walks the earth as Christ also walked for His embalming--the putting forth of fruit 40 days carrying the marks of sin. But I am not Him who did so perfectly, and therefore do say, "I have sin"--but only in the flesh that remains.

 

[Taken]

Can someone please explain OSAS for me?

It’s a man-made acronym for a Spiritual Conversion.

Jesus taught…mans SIN Against God is NON-Belief IN God AND the One God sent.

Jesus taught…men Can hear, read, learn about God, and they will be given Measures of a blessing from God called: Faith.

Continue hearing, reading, learning AND Believing (by, through, the increased measures of Faith being Received) to your end (bodily death). You then shall be saved.

The EFFORT of a person, to hear, read, study, learn AND Believe is called:
Doing the works of God.

The EFFORT of a person, to Heartfully confess his Belief is called:
Doing a service unto God;
(SPECIFICALLY a “reasonable service” of a “living sacrifice”.)

The EFFORT to promise by vow to give your bodily life unto God, to agree to His saving of your soul, to agree to His quickening of your spirit, to agree once and forever He BE your only Lord God Almighty:
Is called: Your agreement to accept Gods Offering, according to His Order and Way.
Is called: Being Converted and SEALED by the Lord God Himself.
That Person IS Right Then, soul saved and spirit quickened….Called: Sanctified
That Person’s BODY is Justified to be risen up in a glorified (anew, sinless, holy, wholly, whole).
That is BEING by the Power of Gods Offer and Works, that man while physically alive in his flesh, being soul saved and spirit quickened, and accounted as having been bodily crucified with Christ, and that man accounted as crucified with Christ, “given authority to occupy Christ Jesus’ Risen Body”….called “IN” Christ.

A man IN Belief is called “WITH” Christ.
That man Receives Blessing From the Holy Spirit.
That man Blessing are called: Tasting. (A trial of sorts Before committing via confession.)

A man IN “heartful confessed Belief” is called “WITH-IN” Christ.
That man IN Christ Receives Continual Blessing from the Holy Spirit that which the HS remains WITH and IN that man for the remainder of his body’s physical life.
That mans continual Blessing is for: Eating the word of God.

A man WITH Christ, can at ANY time LEAVE Christ….and Christ will oblige and LEAVE that man;
That man is called: having fallen from Faith.
That man having “tasted” / experienced blessings of the Holy Spirit…shall cease.
(And not to undermine, God does send “lessor” blessing to non-believers….but not on the scale of believers, and not on the scale of converted believers).
It is the concept of a man who does more to glorify God, receives more.
A man who IS WITH God, then Leaves God…has Shamed God.
Such a man, LOSES his offering to receive the Gift of Salvation Jesus Christ, bought, paid for and offered for all men to Take, receive and possess, (again according to Gods Order and Way).

Once a man HAS heartfully Believed, is repentant for having NOT believed, HAS heartfully Confessed his Belief, Has offered his own body unto Death FOR God…
That man has accomplish-ED Gods requirement to Receive his soul salvation, his spirit quickening. RIGHT THEN, ONCE and Forever.
Which means FOR EVER God SHALL BE WITH THAT MAN and THAT MAN SHALL BE FOR EVER WITH God. (For the rest of the mans mortal life AND once that mans body is risen up glorified.)

Gods supreme Power KEEPS that man For ever, that NO MAN can reverse.
Thus; Once Saved Always Saved.

The KEY word is “ONCE” expressly meaning the individual has accomplish-ed, (according to Gods Order and Way) Gods Requirement for Receipt of Gods several Gifts … including Receipt of Gods Gift of the man soul Salvation and Receipt of Gods Gift of the mans spirit rebirth.

Glory to God,
Taken