Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
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The Spirit is in Christ. Christ is called the Vine. We receive the substance in the Vine, the Spirit that is only in Christ, if we abide in Him by obeying His commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).
The Gentiles in Ro 11 "stand by faith" (v20), so, yes, they have faith.
You can bear fruit only if you abide and receive the substance that is in Christ; if you don't abide, you don't keep receiving the Spirit, and can't bear fruit.
For example, the Galatians were sons of God in Christ, and afterward God sent the Spirit of His Son into their hearts (Gal 4:6)--because they had believed, which is part of the command (1 Jn 3:23), they were "abiding" and so received the Spirit/eternal life that is in Christ (Gal 3:1-3; 1 Jn 3:24); afterward, however, they were "hindered" from "running the race of faith" (Gal 5:7), and were "deserting Him Who calls you" (Gal 1:6), and were "severed from Christ". Branches must continue to abide in the Vine to continue to receive the substance that is in the Vine and continue to bear fruit--branches that don't continue to abide in the Vine don't keep receiving the substance that is in the Vine thus cannot continue to bear fruit.
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Nothing you could say would have any effect on me. Nothing you say " hit" me.
I have no respect for your theology.
You believe men's doctrines, I believe what God says.
What I do not like is the high fiving and gangbanging engaged in by ppl that " think" they know something and others are fools.
Not sure how anyone could ever reach such a conclusion when reading the text.
Romans 11
13I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.
Paul is referring to the fulfillment of prophecy.
Deuteronomy 32
21They have made me jealous with what is no god; they have provoked me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are no people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
So, yes, these Gentiles had believed and so they were included/grafted in to His people. Just as the verses that followed state.
Romans 11
17Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, remember this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either.
22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
So, clearly, they do have faith, and have thereby become God's people He chose in the stead of the unbelieving Jews. There is no other legitimate reading of the text, which explicitly teaches these things.
I can't get past the first sentence with you. I don't see 1 John 3:23-24 the way you do.
Peter went to preach to the Jews to see if he could get them saved. Paul went to the Gentiles to try to do the same. There's 3 different classifications of people in the Bible.
1.) Jews
2.) Gentiles
3.) The church of God (Christians)
OK We see it differently.
The readers will decide who has put forth a more faithful and exegesis of the text.
The ones he is addressing, however you prefer to refer to them, had already believed but could afterward be cut off.
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith... to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You don;t believe what God says, if you did you would not belive in the same gospel GracePeace believes in, You would be against his gospel like the rest of us are.Nothing you could say would have any effect on me. Nothing you say " hit" me.
I have no respect for your theology.
You believe men's doctrines, I believe what God says.
What I do not like is the high fiving and gangbanging engaged in by ppl that " think" they know something and others are fools.
I am not here to affect you or change your mind, I am here to discuss the word.. Sadly. To many people want to push their views and get MAD at those who disagree with them and call them out With truth.
Sadly. it appears you are one of them
I am also not high-fiving anyone. I do not know if you are angry or what. But you are seeing things which are not there. All we have done is refused to give a person an audience and talk about the truth of the word.
Your discernement is lacking
You all cannot prove your view from Scripture.
That's what this discussion is showing.
It makes perfect sense that he's talking to Gentiles. He's telling them it's about Christ now. You need to get the spirit of Christ in you and the Jews refused. And if God cut them off because they refused. Then he will also cut you Gentiles off too if you refuse the spirit of Christ that you need to get born again.
Nope, they had believed ("you stand by faith"), yet could fall into unbelief ("you will be cut off").
Paul wrote the epistle to the Church in Rome (Ro 1:7).
He doesn't write theological letters to unbelievers.
Try again.
The Jews were "cut off" for their unbelief.
The Gentiles were "grafted in" for their faith.
The Gentiles could still be "cut off" for unbelief after believing.
The Jews could still be "grafted in" by faith after their unbelief.
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These guys were Preachers... Apostles teaching to both Christians and new people like everyone else does. Do you think Romans 10:9-10 was written to believes or unbelievers?
I'm sorry, but to not see the carnage, I've had to put you on hold as well. Just until some get the savagery from their system.
The accusers accusing the accused of being the accusers.
toooo much upset for my stomach.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Hello Peter,
the entire epistle (including chapter 10) is written to these:
Through him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith, for the sake of his name, among all the Gentiles,
among whom are you also, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;
to all the beloved of God in Rome, called to be holy.
Pax et Bonum
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Got to love when people let their emotions get the best of them.
Someone Definately showed her true colors today. its sad
Someone Definately showed her true colors today. its sad
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I believe it was written to the Roman Church. Believer and unbeliever in tryign to answer the jewish question
1. The text explicitly says those who had had faith could fall into unbelief.
2. The Jewish believers in the Roman Church had many objections to Paul's Gospel--Paul preempted (perhaps in part based on his own questions and/or his experience preaching to other Jews) and responded to them. Much of the letter addresses the Jewish believers in the Roman Church, actually.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.I'm sorry, but to not see the carnage, I've had to put you on hold as well. Just until some get the savagery from their system.
The accusers accusing the accused of being the accusers.
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