Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[Eternally Grateful]

Except that Jesus warned you and I that if we do not abide in Him, we will be cast out and wither and die, and be burned.

then we were not given or imputed his righteousness. we are left to our own righteousness

Think of a grape vine. The example is EASY to understand. Jesus used a perfectly EASY example to understand. I don't understand why you or anyone else does not understand. @Eternally Grateful See the post below:

The grape vine is about producing fruit. Not about being saved. you were saved the moment you were attached to the vine..

The fruit is what you do because you are attached to the vine..

 

[Zao is life]

Nope

those people are trying to save themselves by abiding.

they are not abiding because they are saved.

They are abiding because they are saved. They have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. But they are not robots as you imagine. They can fall away - and over the centuries it has happened to MANY.

 

[GracePeace]

lol.. then they were never saved yet

Your not saved UNTIL you recieve him. he meets you face to face..

Many try walking to him, and are even drawn to him, but never make it..

No, it's a lot easier than that : branches that abide remain, branches that don't abide don't remain.

 

[Zao is life]

then we were not given or imputed his righteousness. we are left to our own righteousness

The grape vine is about producing fruit. Not about being saved. you were saved the moment you were attached to the vine..

The fruit is what you do because you are attached to the vine..

Jesus told you that you need to remain in the Vine through faith in Him if you want to remain attached to the Vine.

John told you the same thing. He also told you how to remain in the Vine. He called you the branch in the Vine.

Those who abide in Him were saved, are being saved, and will be saved.

Why did He warn you about not remaining in the Vine if you're a robot who cannot fall away?

 

[GracePeace]

then we were not given or imputed his righteousness. we are left to our own righteousness

The grape vine is about producing fruit. Not about being saved. you were saved the moment you were attached to the vine..

The fruit is what you do because you are attached to the vine..

Nope, to be, "clothed" with Him, His righteousness, we must abide--the little children are told "abide so you won't draw back in shame at His appearance", and it is said that the Laodiceans were "naked", and Rv 16:15 speaks of "the shame of their nakedness".

Again, it's not a one-and-done transaction. It's abiding. It's "endurance" (Heb 10; Rev 3).

 

[marks]

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ,

Not just past tense, but perfect tense, meaning, this is an action completed with enduring effect. Have become partakers in such a manner as that we remain partakers of Christ.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

It says sealed UNTIL the day of redemption (there are actually three places it says this

Ephesians 4:30

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (were a completed action)

Ephesians 1:13

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (this occurs AFTER we trust God)

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

It does not say sealed UNTIL or as long as we do not Fall away

You need to do some proper hermeneutic. Never interpret verses in isolation like you do above without reference to everything scripture says about the same subject.

Jesus said if you do not abide - ongoing, present-tense - in Him, you will be cast out, and will wither and die.

Hebrews says what will happen if you draw back.

John explains how to abide in the Vine.

The words you quoted tell you not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

There are others.

@Eternally Grateful What comes after the word "IF" in this verse?:

But Christ was faithful as a Son over his own house; whose house we are, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.Heb.3:6

 

[GracePeace]

Not just past tense, but perfect tense, meaning, this is an action completed with enduring effect. Have become partakers in such a manner as that we remain partakers of Christ.

Much love!

The action completed with enduring effect is still conditioned--IF you continue. What happens if you don't continue? Your "righteousness of faith" is forgotten (Ez 3:20)--that "history" retroactively never occurred.

 

[Zao is life]

Nope

those people are trying to save themselves by abiding.

they are not abiding because they are saved.

But Christ was faithful as a Son over his own house; whose house we are, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Heb.3:6

5 I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you. -- John 15

 

[GracePeace]

But Christ was faithful as a Son over his own house; whose house we are, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Heb.3:6

5 I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you. -- John 15

The alternative to holding fast is provided in Heb 3: "hardened by the deceitfulness of sin" "fall away from the living God"--Heb 10 "for you have need of endurance so that after you have done the will of God you can receive what was promised".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They are abiding because they are saved. They have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. But they are not robots as you imagine. They can fall away - and over the centuries it has happened to MANY.

I asked you one I will ask you again.

What causes people to lose faith in other people or things?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it's a lot easier than that : branches that abide remain, branches that don't abide don't remain.

So its all of your power. Not of Gods power.

thank you, that is good to know.. I will trust myself more..

 

[Zao is life]

The alternative to holding fast is provided in Heb 3: "hardened by the deceitfulness of sin" "fall away from the living God"--Heb 10 "for you have need of endurance so that after you have done the will of God you can receive what was promised".

@Eternally Grateful

For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Heb 3:14

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus told you that you need to remain in the Vine through faith in Him if you want to remain attached to the Vine.

John told you the same thing. He also told you how to remain in the Vine. He called you the branch in the Vine.

Those who abide in Him were saved, are being saved, and will be saved.

Why did He warn you about not remaining in the Vine if you're a robot who cannot fall away?

No

Jesus said if you want to produce fruit you need to remain.

Me remaining in the vine will not pay for my sin.. The penalty of sin is death. Not Abiding in the vine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, to be, "clothed" with Him, His righteousness, we must abide--the little children are told "abide so you won't draw back in shame at His appearance", and it is said that the Laodiceans were "naked", and Rv 16:15 speaks of "the shame of their nakedness".

Again, it's not a one-and-done transaction. It's abiding. It's "endurance" (Heb 10; Rev 3).

lol

YOU..

Stop trying to do it yourself. and let God save you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Heb 3:14

I ask you again

What causes me to lose faith in people or things..

 

[marks]

The action completed with enduring effect is still conditioned--IF you continue. What happens if you don't continue? Your "righteousness of faith" is forgotten (Ez 3:20)--that "history" retroactively never occurred.

I understand how you are looking at this, however, I have to insist, that's not how the perfect tense in Koine Greek works. And that's not the form of the statement. All I can do is repeat these same things. But that's the language. That's how it works.

What if you don't continue? It means you didn't pass the condition, and therefore, you had not become a partaker of Christ. That's what the passage says. That's the use of the first class conditional clause, This is true of you, IF that is true of you. You've become partakers of Christ IF you continue to the end. If you do not continue to the end, you had not become a partaker of Christ.

At then end of this part, you assert that the completed and enduring action of a perfect tense verb isn't completed and enduring.

Let me ask you . . . when God "forgets" a man's righteousness, are you thinking that means God becomes unaware of that man's history? That his history ceases to exist, and God Himself doesn't know what his history was? I don't see it that way.

But this goes back to the difference between the covenant God made with Israel, and the covenant God makes with us. God's covenant with Israel was based on the people's righteousness as determined by the Law. God's covenant with me is based on Jesus' righteousness as determined by His life and death and resurrection. The people's righteousness comes and goes, as we've seen, but Jesus' righteousness remains forever.

1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV
22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

What causes people to lose faith in other people or things?

If those other people or things are trustworthy and never did anything to cause it, then it's themselves that causes people to lose faith in other people or things.

Like a girl who believes her boyfriend when he denies it after her father told her that he saw the guy kissing and embracing another girl in the store. And then runs away with the guy.

That was a dumb example of millions of things can cause it. The human heart is deceitful above all things. There's always something in the heart - some sort of motive or something else - that can cause people to turn away from someone whose word they always believed.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If those other people or things are trustworthy and never did anything to cause it, then it's themselves that causes people to lose faith in other people or things.​

why? Why would you lose faiht in someone who never did anything to let you down?

Like a girl who believes her boyfriend when he denies it after her father told her that he saw the guy kissing and embracing another girl in the store. And then runs away with the guy.

That was a dumb example of millions of things can cause it. The human heart is deceitful above all things. There's always something in the heart - some sort of motive or something else - that can cause people to turn away from someone whose word they always believed.​

Yes, we turn away because they became untrustworthy or unfaithful.

Is God untrustworthy or unfaithful?

 

[GracePeace]

So its all of your power. Not of Gods power.

thank you, that is good to know.. I will trust myself more..

Uh, nope, we are told "obey for it is God working in you", so it is God working, and we are called to work with that working.