Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[Zao is life]

So its all of your power. Not of Gods power.

thank you, that is good to know.. I will trust myself more..

Don't trust yourself. I'm glad to hear you don't trust yourself. Peter trusted himself when he told Jesus he would never deny him.

 

[marks]

In Ezekiel 18:29, we read - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVES.

Great post!

To me this is the heart of the matter. Either I'm looking to myself - hold on . . . don't sin too much . . . don't stop believing - or I'm looking to Jesus, in Whom I'm reconciled to God.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, we turn away because they became untrustworthy or unfaithful.

That's nonsense. People have turned away from perfectly trustworthy and faithful people before.

Ever heard of a faithful, loyal guy whose wife left him for his best friend?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Uh, nope, we are told "obey for it is God working in you", so it is God working, and we are called to work with that working.

So God can fail?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't trust yourself. I'm glad to hear you don't trust yourself. Peter trusted himself when he told Jesus he would never deny him.

Yep,

And what Did Jesus do. reject him, or restore him?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's nonsense. People have turned away from perfectly trustworthy and faithful people before.

Ever heard of a faithful, loyal guy whose wife left him for his best friend?

Thats because they wife did not really love her husband, If she did she would never have departed

just like people who left God never really trusted him.. or loved him. They played the game, and because they never truly experienced Gods love, they eventually walk away..

 

[Zao is life]

Uh, nope, we are told "obey for it is God working in you", so it is God working, and we are called to work with that working.

@Eternally Grateful

God is faithful - always.

It's those people who turn away who are unfaithful.

You make their unfaithfulness God's unfaithfulness.

It's like the door to God's house. If you choose to walk out of your own accord then it's not God who kicked you out.

You talk like if someone chooses to leave then it's God's fault for "not being faithful and not doing His part".

 

[Zao is life]

Yep,

And what Did Jesus do. reject him, or restore him?

He restored him. But he repented.

He would not have been restored if he had not repented. And Jesus blood had saved him. And he did not turn away again afterward. @Eternally Grateful If he had turned away afteward he would have been cast out as a branch, withered and died, worthy only to be burned.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

God is faithful - always.

It's those people who turn away who are unfaithful.

You make their unfaithfulness God's unfaithfulness.

It's like the door to God's house. If you choose to walk out of your own accord then it's not God who kicked you out.

You talk like if someone chooses to leave then it's God's fault for "not being faithful and not doing His part".

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

My salvation is not my promise. it was not paid for by my blood. it is not something i can do. it is something God paid for and promised.

if he became unfaithful in his promise to me, he denies himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He restored him. But he repented.

when, can you show me where Peter repented?

He would not have been restored if he had not repented. And Jesus blood had saved him. And he did not turn away again afterward. @Eternally Grateful If he had turned away afteward he would have been cast out as a branch, withered and died, worthy only to be burned.

Again, can you show me where he repented?

 

[Zao is life]

Thats because they wife did not really love her husband, If she did she would never have departed

just like people who left God never really trusted him.. or loved him. They played the game, and because they never truly experienced Gods love, they eventually walk away..

So their lack = Christ's lack?

Who was lacking? The one who fell away, or the one who is faithful?

 

[Zao is life]

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

My salvation is not my promise. it was not paid for by my blood. it is not something i can do. it is something God paid for and promised.

if he became unfaithful in his promise to me, he denies himself.

There you go again with your lack of proper hermeneutic.

So the unfaithful that we have just been speaking about will not be cast out and wither and be burned, because God is faithful.

Do you also believe that Jews who remain in rejection of Christ are still God's elect?

Will the unfaithful who stopped abiding in the Vine be with Jesus in heaven when they die?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So their lack = Christ's lack?

Who was lacking? The one who fell away, or the one who is faithful?

Did they truly trust/love Christ to begin with?

 

[Zao is life]

when, can you show me where Peter repented?

Again, can you show me where he repented?

75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, Who said to him, Before the cock crows, you shall deny Me three times. And he went out and wept bitterly.

15 Then when they broke fast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these? He said to Him, Yes, Lord, You know that I love You. He said to him, Feed My lambs.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There you go again with your lack of proper hermeneutic.

So the unfaithful that we have just been speaking about will not be cast out and wither and be burned, because God is faithful.

Do you also believe that Jews who remain in rejection of Christ are still God's elect?

where they ever saved? what kind of question is this?

He who believe is not condemned, He who does not believe is CONDEMENED ALREADY.

Will the unfaithful who stopped abiding in the Vine be with Jesus in heaven when they die?

Did they attach themselves to the vine? Can they unattach themselves from the vine?

Will there be believers in heaven who did not produce fruit. I already answered that question, their works (fruit) will be tried by fire..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, Who said to him, Before the cock crows, you shall deny Me three times. And he went out and wept bitterly.

So he wept to God? and repented and confessed his sin to God??

please show me where that is.

PS. Do you even know what repent means? Did Peter really not believe in Jesus, or did he in fear deny he knew him?

 

[marks]

No, it's not "a rule of thumb", as you mean it, because men sin all of the time, yet it was only then that the men who engaged in the particular act would be "blotted out". Surely their other sins had not escaped God's notice, any single one of which would (on your view) have resulted in their "spiritual death" long before then, and yet their names had, up until that point, still been in God's Book.

That's an interesting comment. I had to think about that a bit. Yes, wouldn't all their previous sins have meant they would already have been blotted out?

I'd never connected these two passages before, shame on me! But that's what I love about good forum discourse!! That I may see things I've not seen before.

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And this is what I love about the Bible, everything is in harmony.

The sinned, and died, but their sin was not imputed, because God had not given a Law that they had broken. Until now. Now a Law was given, now they had broken God's Law, now Moses pleads on their behalf.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

No

Jesus said if you want to produce fruit you need to remain.

Me remaining in the vine will not pay for my sin.. The penalty of sin is death. Not Abiding in the vine.

And not remaining results in being thrown in the fire.
Those are the two options.
Christ pays for our sin--but the servant who doesn't go and do the same has his forgiveness revoked. His faith is forgotten.

 

[Zao is life]

when, can you show me where Peter repented?

Again, can you show me where he repented?

I showed you where he repented.

Now can you show me the verse that says he did not repent?

 

[GracePeace]

That's an interesting comment. I had to think about that a bit. Yes, wouldn't all their previous sins have meant they would already have been blotted out?

I'd never connected these two passages before, shame on me! But that's what I love about good forum discourse!! That I may see things I've not seen before.

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And this is what I love about the Bible, everything is in harmony.

The sinned, and died, but their sin was not imputed, because God had not given a Law that they had broken. Until now. Now a Law was given, now they had broken God's Law, now Moses pleads on their behalf.

Much love!

There really is no "connection" there.

#1 You said all were in Adam, and were in the Book.
#2 You said when someone sins they're blotted out they're spiritually dead.
#3 If this is the case, only young children are in the Book, then are blotted out when they gain the knowledge of good and evil--there are no "men" being "blotted out", they were long since "blotted out", "spiritually dead".

Now you want to say, with zero basis, that this "not imputed" relates to the Book of Life?

It says that "even so death reigned from Adam to Moses": this refers to two times men had explicit knowledge of God, when their sins could therefore be counted as transgressions. This is why it says "even over those who did not sin in the likeness of Adam", but then it introduces this other group of transgressors, Moses and the Jews.