You're the biggest false accuser on the forum, hypocrite.
Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
- Thread starter GracePeace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You have to list the post numbers though. Because I never saw him doing that to you, but I did see you doing that all the time. Like, a lot of the time, like when you keep hurling false accusations or twisting what someone is saying or implying they say something they did not.
You've done all of that in this thread, aside from hurling insults.
It's not the fruit of the Spirit. We - you and I and anyone else - provide zero evidence that we have been saved let alone abiding in the Vine when we do that.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
It's the fruit of the Spirit. Not the fruit of the works of men. You get it displayed in you by abiding in the Vine, who is Jesus.
For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, proving what is acceptable to the Lord.
If anyone does not abide in the Vine he is cast out as a branch and dies and is withered, worthy only to be burned.
I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. -- John 15:5-6
It's the fruit of the Spirit. Not the fruit of the works of men. You get it displayed in you by abiding in the Vine, who is Jesus.
For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, proving what is acceptable to the Lord.
If anyone does not abide in the Vine he is cast out as a branch and dies and is withered, worthy only to be burned.
I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. -- John 15:5-6
This is how, for me, it's not academic, it's ultimately practical.
If you think that you must ____________ or do ____________ (excepting believing in Jesus) to be saved or remain saved, then you put yourself into a legalism of some kind, whether it be the OT Law, or making a "Law" from the NT, or using your conscience, whatever it may be. Living in a legalistic system triggers the flesh, and actually empowers the flesh. So life will be more difficult.
There are those who believe that if we commit a sin, we've become separated from God, which follows in this legalism path. We must not sin/lose faith/_______ or we will again be lost. Because sin separates us from God. I'm not saying it does, only, that's the thinking.
However, passages like 1 John 3:1-3, we know we will be like him when we see him, everyone who has this hope purifies himself even as Jesus is pure, this assures me that's not going to happen, because if I've been born again now, I'll see him then. Again, that's the plain straightforward, unambiguous saying of this passage. This is what John wrote, and I believe his words were inspired by God, and I believe what God is telling me.
And there is no passage whatsoever which overturns this simple statement of truth.
Much love!
Haven't you just denied the saying of that passage? What the Bible makes as a clear affirmative statement you seem to be saying, not necessarily so. Am I wrong about that?
Much love!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
. . . looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith,
At what point is a person judged to be dead on the Vine?
At what point is a person judged to be dead on the Vine?
No, rather, it is yourself who denies the saying that some do not abide (1 Jn 2:28) because they don't keep God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24) because they're led away by idols (1 Jn 5:21).
Just as in Ezekiel : "because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My Sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their [worthless] idols."
Last edited:
This discussion is mainly about the fact that one must abide in the Son to retain the eternal life that is only found in the Son--and that some do not abide (Jn 15; 1 Jn 2:28), because they're led away by idols (1 Jn 5:21).
Secondarily, we can discuss what it looks like to keep God's commands in order to abide.
In your reply, you have agreed that "believing in Jesus" is a requirement (1 Jn 3:23).
Those who do not remain in the faith fall away--eg, the Galatians were "deserting Him Who calls you" by believing a "persuasion" that "does not come from [God]", and were "severed from Christ".
Rather,
1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The saying here is that the power of God keeps us, using faith as the means.
"kept" here is a Perfect tense verb, meaning it's an action that is completed with enduring result. It's done, and remains done. It's in the Passive Voice, which means it's being done to the one who is being kept. I receive His "keeping" of me. If I were "keeping myself", say, by, for instance, fulfilling a requirement to continue to believe, then it would be written in the Active Voice, which means I'm doing the action.
A parallel passage is here,
Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Here, "Ye are sealed" is Passive Voice, done to us. The Holy Spirit is our seal of being owned by God, His property, and we are under His seal "unto the day of redemption". Can you extricate yourself from God's ownership of you? Are you able to do that? Because He's said it's not going to happen. That if you're raised with Him now, you will appear with Him then. That His seal of ownership has an intent, that I be locked up under His seal until that day.
Much love!
Yes, "He is at work in us", but the very same verse states "obey"--it's not one or the other, it's both--"keep yourselves in the love of God".
With regard to "kept by the power of God"--yes, "through faith", and we also know that "the deceitfulness of sin" can "harden the heart", so that it becomes a "heart of unbelief", so that the power of God is not at work (there's no "faith" to work "through"), so, again "keep yourselves in the love of God" applies.
Not a single passage has been presented that has overturned anything whatsoever that I've said here.
You are stringing together a series of clauses removed from their contexts that would appear, as you arrange them so, to paint a picture quite different from these many passages I'm posting, that are complete passages with surrounding context, which make clear and plain statements with are in direct contradiction to your assertions.
You've said that you agree with my grammatical analysis of these passages, yet you disagree with what that means they are saying. I'm not trying to be rude. Do I need to post all these little bits of verses you are posting, all in their contexts, to show what they are saying?
Because the Bible is in harmony, and nothing will contradict. And can you show me how these passages such as 1 John 3:1-3 don't say what I'm saying they say? Do you really think I've got the words wrong? And if not, why not believe it?
It's OK. I don't mind looking these up and sharing what I see, only, you've been flooding me with these short quotes of a few words only, and there will need to be a fair amount to time to go through them all. And then it's hard to keep up with the flow of an otherwise dynamic thread.
Anyway . . . I've gone off into the weeds of my own mind . . .
Much love!
It is because I agree that the Bible is harmonious that I cannot accept the things you are saying, and I stand by everything I've stated.
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Do you believe this passage exactly as it is written?
Much love!
Do you believe this passage exactly as written?
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Much love!
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Much love!
Yes, I do--and "we" and "you" and "our" are all phrases that apply to those who are abiding in Christ by keeping His commands (1 Jn 3:23,24), and there are those who do not abide (1 Jn 2:28), and if they fall away these statements do not apply to them.
Do you believe Romans 8:1--that there is no condemnation for those "in Christ"?
If so, how is the Christian who does not walk in faith "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?
I will restate my answer: you raised a lone verse talking about being kept by God's power through faith, as if faith were static--but that is the entire discussion, so you were begging the question, and that falsehood was debunked for the readers.
- Status
Similar threads
