OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Michiah-Imla]

The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

So you promote the idea that we are not obligated to do something Jesus himself had to do?

“…Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water…” (Matthew 3:15-16)

This is why the common abhor church people.

Just a bunch of hypocrites who abuse the Bible to keep their traditions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you promote the idea that we are not obligated to do something Jesus himself had to do?

“…Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water…” (Matthew 3:15-16)

This is why the common abhor church people.

Just a bunch of hypocrites who abuse the Bible to keep their traditions.

Lol

Who said we should not be baptized?

this is what happens when legalists hear things, they assume things not true.

 

[mailmandan]

Lol

Who said we should not be baptized?

this is what happens when legalists hear things, they assume things not true.

Legalists are the real hypocrites. Especially those in the sinless perfection camp. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Legalists are the real hypocrites. Especially those in the sinless perfection camp. (1 John 1:8-10)

Like man of the OSAS peoples who claim after getting born again... they cannot sin?

What they do is go ahead and sin and then they lie about it claiming they didn't!

 

[mailmandan]

Like man of the OSAS peoples who claim after getting born again... they cannot sin?

What they do is go ahead and sin and then they lie about it claiming they didn't!

That's more typical of works-salvationists in the NOSAS camp.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Like man of the OSAS peoples who claim after getting born again... they cannot sin?

What they do is go ahead and sin and then they lie about it claiming they didn't!

Lol,

Mr sinless perfectionist is a NOSAS believer.

People who believe in Eternal Security do not need to be afraid to confess their sins

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

People who believe in. Security do not be afraid to confess their sins

IF... IF I were to sin I would do what God's Word teaches which is what I used to do back when I live in sin like the OSAS peoples are doing

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

OSAS peoples go around telling everyone that they sin everyday in thought word and deed! They still itty bitty babies that don't know how to control themselves... thinking they are in right standing with the Lord!. Shameful!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

IF... IF I were to sin I would do what God's Word teaches which is what I used to do back when I live in sin like the OSAS peoples are doing

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

OSAS peoples go around telling everyone that they sin everyday in thought word and deed! They still itty bitty babies that don't know how to control themselves... thinking they are in right standing with the Lord!. Shameful! View attachment 38087

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

View attachment 38086

So you keep the law, your sinless?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So you keep the law, your sinless?

“…yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

“Stand in awe, and sin not…” (Psalms 4:4)

“Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34)

Paul speaks this to your shame OSAS’ers!

 

[JBO]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

(ESV)Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(KJV) Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(NASB) Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(NIV) Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In none of those is there any reason or indication that the phrase "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. As for Acts 3:19, the fact that every reference to the act of being saved doesn't follow a specific and identical description is not a reason to change the meaning of the various references.

It is interesting to note that in counting up all the references in Acts of actual events of people being saved, baptism is mentioned more often than is even believing. I can present that accounting for you if you like. Summarizing, there are 13 references in Acts that speak of one or more people being saved, beginning with the 3000 at Pentecost in Acts 2:38-41 and ending with Paul in Acts 22:16. In describing the events that took place, it is variously described has "they heard the word" 8 times, "they believed" 8 times, "they repented their sins" 3 times, "they accepted (confessed) Christ" 3 times, and "they were baptized (immersed)" 10 times.

Clearly you are mistaken to try to assign baptism to a parenthetical expression having nothing to do with God's act of salvation.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

The receiving of the Holy Spirit in spoken of in Acts 10:47 refers not to the gift of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:38, but rather the empowering of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:4. This is demonstrated by the previous verse (v.46) where it says that they heard them speaking in tongues.

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

John clearly said "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) Peter said "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.." Whatever baptism is "for" in Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3 it's also for in Acts 2:38. In both cases baptism is “in regards to/on the basis of” the remission of sins received upon repentance and not in order to obtain the remission of sins. In Matthew 3:11, they were baptized with water for (in regards to/on the basis of) repentance and not in order to obtain repentance. Your doctrine is inconsistent.

In Acts 2:38, the "for the remission of sins" is translated/interpreted from the Greek "εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν". The use of the preposition εἰς {eis} clearly establishes the meaning of "unto" or "in order to"

The washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) is signified but not procured in the waters of baptism.

The washing in Titus 3:5 is the same washing that appears in Paul's own description of his conversion in Acts 22:16 Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

Your attempt to uncouple salvation from the act of being water baptized is terribly weak, in fact futile. The command to be "baptized everyone of you"; that repents and believes; that is, in water, in which John administered the ordinance of baptism; in which Christ himself was baptized, and in which the apostles of Christ administered it; in this Philip baptized the eunuch; and in this were the persons baptized that were converted in Cornelius's house is well established.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“…yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

“Stand in awe, and sin not…” (Psalms 4:4)

“Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34)

Paul speaks this to your shame OSAS’ers!

Lol

My friend, You actually amaze me

You believe in yu have been made sinless in Christ. Yet in the same breath you believe you can lose salvation because you have not really been made sinless

those two statements do not agree with other.

The law was not given to make you sinless. it was given to make you understand how sinful you were. As a tutor to lead you to christ.

if anyone can look to the law and think they are sinless.. Well I will just pray they look at the pharisee who thought the exact same thing they do. And then look how Jesus responded to them,,

 

[mailmandan]

Lol,

Mr sinless perfectionist is a NOSAS believer.

People who believe in. Security do not be afraid to confess their sins

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Those who claim to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

(ESV)Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(KJV) Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(NASB) Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(NIV) Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In none of those is there any reason or indication that the phrase "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. As for Acts 3:19, the fact that every reference to the act of being saved doesn't follow a specific and identical description is not a reason to change the meaning of the various references.

It is interesting to note that in counting up all the references in Acts of actual events of people being saved, baptism is mentioned more often than is even believing. I can present that accounting for you if you like. Summarizing, there are 13 references in Acts that speak of one or more people being saved, beginning with the 3000 at Pentecost in Acts 2:38-41 and ending with Paul in Acts 22:16. In describing the events that took place, it is variously described has "they heard the word" 8 times, "they believed" 8 times, "they repented their sins" 3 times, "they accepted (confessed) Christ" 3 times, and "they were baptized (immersed)" 10 times.

Clearly you are mistaken to try to assign baptism to a parenthetical expression having nothing to do with God's act of salvation.

You need to look to the greek. Even the origional KJV (1600) written in olde english text shows a hint.

But repent, and be baptized are written in two different forms. They do not agree with each other.

Repent was a command given to everyone (2nd person plural)

Be baptized was written only to certain induviduals. (3rd person singular)

now like I said, in the origional King james you can sort of see it

repent ye (everyone) and let every one of you (induvidual people)

now what you have to do is determine who the different groups are And why they needed to do those things..

I will leave it there and see if you are willing to study to figure that out.

The receiving of the Holy Spirit in spoken of in Acts 10:47 refers not to the gift of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:38, but rather the empowering of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:4. This is demonstrated by the previous verse (v.46) where it says that they heard them speaking in tongues.


In Acts 2:38, the "for the remission of sins" is translated/interpreted from the Greek "εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν". The use of the preposition εἰς {eis} clearly establishes the meaning of "unto" or "in order to"

The washing in Titus 3:5 is the same washing that appears in Paul's own description of his conversion in Acts 22:16 Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness (like water baptism) which we have done, but by his MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and REGENERATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Paul says specifically, it is not by a good deed (like water baptism) with which we have been saved. And he said specifically, we were saved by the washing (baptism) and new birth of the HS.. the HS did the work, not your pastor.

Your attempt to uncouple salvation from the act of being water baptized is terribly weak, in fact futile. The command to be "baptized everyone of you"; that repents and believes; that is, in water, in which John administered the ordinance of baptism; in which Christ himself was baptized, and in which the apostles of Christ administered it; in this Philip baptized the eunuch; and in this were the persons baptized that were converted in Cornelius's house is well established.

You attempt to replace the spiritual baptism of God from the physical baptism in water is amazing.. and sad.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Those who claim to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness.

Imagine going through life knowing if you make one mistake, like getting mad at a car who cuts you off. Or driving ten miles an hour under the speed limit in the speed lane when you are in a hurry will cut you off from Christ And cause you to lose salvation?

 

[JBO]

You attempt to replace the spiritual baptism of God from the physical baptism in water is amazing.. and sad.

And your attempt to replace God's word with your own is amazing, and sad.

And I am not replacing the spiritual baptism of God from the physical baptism in water. What I am saying and what the Bible is saying is that it is in the physical baptism in water that we receive the spiritual baptism of God. The physical baptism in water is not the agent bringing salvation. The agent is God. The occasion, the instant in time, that the spiritual baptism of God occurs in the life of the repentant believer is at the physical baptism in water.

That is the message throughout the NT and spelled out specifically in Colossians 2:

Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Col 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Dead but made alive by God is regeneration, born again, born of water and spirit. That is almost an exact repeat of Paul's description in Romans 6. There is simply no way to dismiss the fact that being buried with him in baptism is physical baptism in water.

 

[mailmandan]

(ESV)Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(KJV) Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(NASB) Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(NIV) Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In none of those is there any reason or indication that the phrase "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. As for Acts 3:19, the fact that every reference to the act of being saved doesn't follow a specific and identical description is not a reason to change the meaning of the various references.

Sure, there is and notice how I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. As Greek scholar AT Robertson stated: Change of number from plural to singular and of person from second to third. This change marks a break in the thought here that the English translation does not preserve. The first thing to do is make a radical and complete change of heart and life. Then let each one be baptized after this change has taken place, and the act of baptism be performed “in the name of Jesus Christ” (εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου Χριστου — en tōi onomati Iēsou Christou).

Greek scholar A. T. Robertson authored Word Pictures in the New Testament. In his comments on Acts 2:38 he said, - “One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. "My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received.” The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koin, generally (Robertson, Grammar, page 592).

Acts 2 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

It is interesting to note that in counting up all the references in Acts of actual events of people being saved, baptism is mentioned more often than is even believing. I can present that accounting for you if you like. Summarizing, there are 13 references in Acts that speak of one or more people being saved, beginning with the 3000 at Pentecost in Acts 2:38-41 and ending with Paul in Acts 22:16. In describing the events that took place, it is variously described has "they heard the word" 8 times, "they believed" 8 times, "they repented their sins" 3 times, "they accepted (confessed) Christ" 3 times, and "they were baptized (immersed)" 10 times.

In Acts 2:41, those who gladly received his word (upon repentance, faith implied/assumed) were "afterwards" baptized. Nothing is mentioned here about water baptism being the direct cause of the 3,000 souls being added. It simply says those who received his word were baptized.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism?

What happened to baptism in Acts 10:43, 13:39, 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18? *Hermeneutics.

Clearly you are mistaken to try to assign baptism to a parenthetical expression having nothing to do with God's act of salvation.

Not so. If water baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation, then why would God make so many statements in which He promises eternal life to those who simply believe/place faith in Jesus Christ. (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29.40.47.11:25.26; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

The receiving of the Holy Spirit in spoken of in Acts 10:47 refers not to the gift of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:38, but rather the empowering of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2:4. This is demonstrated by the previous verse (v.46) where it says that they heard them speaking in tongues.

That is absolutely false. Acts 10:45 clearly states gift of the Holy Spirit and so does Acts 2:38. Now in addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles believers received the spiritual gift of tongues which is ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12) In Acts 11:17, we read - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” Compare with Acts 16:31 - “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Show me a verse that says saved through faith and baptism or whoever is not baptized will not be saved. I'll be waiting.

In Acts 2:38, the "for the remission of sins" is translated/interpreted from the Greek "εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν". The use of the preposition εἰς {eis} clearly establishes the meaning of "unto" or "in order to"

Greek scholar E Calvin Beisner said something similar - In short, the most precise English translation of the relevant clauses, arranging them to reflect the switches in person and number of the verbs, would be, “You (plural) repent for the forgiveness of your (plural) sins, and let each one (singular) of you be baptized (singular)….” Or, to adopt our Southern dialect again, “Y’all repent for the forgiveness of y’all’s sins, and let each one of you be baptized….”

When I showed this translation to the late Julius Mantey, one of the foremost Greek grammarians of the twentieth century and co-author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament (originally published in 1927), he approved and even signed his name next to it in the margin of my Greek New Testament. These arguments, lexical and grammatical, stand independently. Even if one rejects both lexical meanings of for, he still must face the grammatical argument, and even if he rejects the grammatical conclusion, he still must face the lexical argument. Does Acts 2:38 prove baptismal remission? No, it doesn’t even support it as part of a cumulative case. — E. Calvin Beisner

http://www.equip.org/PDF/JAA238.pdf

Greek scholar Daniel Wallace explains in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: It is possible that to a first-century Jewish audience (as well as to Peter), the idea of baptism might incorporate both the spiritual reality and the physical symbol (although only the reality remits sins). In other words, when one spoke of baptism, he usually meant both ideas—the reality and the ritual. Peter is shown to make the strong connection between these two in chapters 10 and 11. In 11:15-16 he recounts the conversion of Cornelius and friends, pointing out that at the point of their conversion they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. After he had seen this, he declared, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit…” (10:47). The point seems to be that if they have had the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit via spiritual baptism, there ought to be a public testimony/acknowledgment via water baptism as well. This may not only explain Acts 2:38 (that Peter spoke of both reality and picture, though only the reality removes sins), but also why the NT speaks of only baptized believers (as far as we can tell): Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a picture; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit baptized.

Oneness Pentecostals believe the work of Baptism saves

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

JBO said: The washing in Titus 3:5 is the same washing that appears in Paul's own description of his conversion in Acts 22:16 Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing* Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5, of the "washing of regeneration." - Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse the heart from sin and regenerate the new believer.

Your attempt to uncouple salvation from the act of being water baptized is terribly weak, in fact futile. The command to be "baptized everyone of you"; that repents and believes; that is, in water, in which John administered the ordinance of baptism; in which Christ himself was baptized, and in which the apostles of Christ administered it; in this Philip baptized the eunuch; and in this were the persons baptized that were converted in Cornelius's house is well established.

Just the opposite. Water baptism follows belief/faith/conversion. Acts 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

*Compare with John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism?

These Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ -1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) In verse 47, we read - “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” Crystal clear. Water baptism "followed" their conversion.

 

[mailmandan]

And your attempt to replace God's word with your own is amazing, and sad.

And I am not replacing the spiritual baptism of God from the physical baptism in water. What I am saying and what the Bible is saying is that it is in the physical baptism in water that we receive the spiritual baptism of God. The physical baptism in water is not the agent bringing salvation. The agent is God. The occasion, the instant in time, that the spiritual baptism of God occurs in the life of the repentant believer is at the physical baptism in water.

That is the message throughout the NT and spelled out specifically in Colossians 2:

Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Col 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Dead but made alive by God is regeneration, born again, born of water and spirit. That is almost an exact repeat of Paul's description in Romans 6. There is simply no way to dismiss the fact that being buried with him in baptism is physical baptism in water.

In regard to Colossians 2:12, since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification) and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by faith, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.

In regard to Romans 6:3-4, as Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual relation to Christ attained before the baptism. See on "Galatians 3:27" where it is like putting on an outward garment or uniform. Into his death (ei ton qanaton autou). So here "unto his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance. The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forward to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk on the other side of the baptismal grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it. It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that faith (not baptism) is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification. (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1) That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification." (Romans 4:24,25)

 

[JBO]

These Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ -1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) In verse 47, we read - “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” Crystal clear. Water baptism "followed" their conversion.

It would seem that you fail to distinguish between the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit and the gift (empowering) of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is a gift to each and every one saved. The empowering Holy Spirit is a gift to selected ones and not associated with salvation and by comparison, few in number.

The gentiles in Acts 10:44,45 received the gift (empowering) of the Holy Spirit, as indicated by their speaking in tongues. That is not an indication of their being saved. Their conversion, the forgiveness of sin and the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit occured, just as in the case of Acts 2:38, when they were water baptized.

 

[Ritajanice]

I wish some would stop adding their own words to the word of God...mans words make NO sense....it’s like they are trying to figure the word of God out in their own minds.

Jesus Words here are PERFECT and incredibly easy to understand for a Born Again!!....

John 3:1-21​

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English Standard Version​

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You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life



Born of water= natural birth.

Born of the Spirit = God’s Living supernatural birth.

Easy peasy to understand, as long as it was God who birthed us in his Spirit...yup!!