OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Ritajanice]

It would seem that you fail to distinguish between the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit and the gift (empowering) of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is a gift to each and every one saved. The empowering Holy Spirit is a gift to selected ones and not associated with salvation and by comparison, few in number.

Your opinion.

God’s word says....you must be “Born Again “ to see the Kingdom of God.


Not what opinion you have voiced above...it has no bearing in the word of God...it’s man made .


God’s word is so easy to understand below....nothing complicated with the “ Living “ word of God.

John 3:1-21​

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English Standard Version​

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You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life

 

[mailmandan]

It would seem that you fail to distinguish between the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit and the gift (empowering) of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is a gift to each and every one saved. The empowering Holy Spirit is a gift to selected ones and not associated with salvation and by comparison, few in number.

The gentiles in Acts 10:44,45 received the gift (empowering) of the Holy Spirit, as indicated by their speaking in tongues. That is not an indication of their being saved. Their conversion, the forgiveness of sin and the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit occured, just as in the case of Acts 2:38, when they were water baptized.

Unbelievable! I clearly showed you that these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit/received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45, 47; 11:17) yet instead you claim this was merely empowering of the Holy Spirit and these Gentile believers were still lost in their sins. In addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit these Gentile believers also received the spiritual gift of tongues, which is ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12) How many lost unbelievers receive spiritual gifts? Answer - 0.

 

[JBO]

As Greek scholar AT Robertson stated: ......

I could be mistaken but I believe that A T Robertson was the Greek "expert" who said that "for the forgiveness of sins" in Acts 2:38 and elsewhere could be translated/interpreted as "because" of the forgiveness of sins. That is something that no other Greek "expert" would say or tolerate. Clearly,, such an expert cannont be trusted.

I wish some would stop adding their own words to the word of God...mans words make NO sense....it’s like they are trying to figure the word of God out in their own minds.

Jesus Words here are PERFECT and incredibly easy to understand for a Born Again!!....

John 3:1-21​

​

English Standard Version​

​

​

You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life



Born of water= natural birth.

Born of the Spirit = God’s Living supernatural birth.

Easy peasy to understand, as long as it was God who birthed us in his Spirit...yup!!

That born of water = natural birth is really a silly interpretation. That euphemism appears nowhere else in Scripture. It appears nowhere in history. It is not one that appears anywhere today. The only place you can find it is in the erroneous translation/interpretation of this one single passage. Clearly it is invalid.

 

[JBO]

Unbelievable! I clearly showed you that these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit/received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45, 47; 11:17) yet instead you claim this was merely empowering of the Holy Spirit and these Gentile believers were still lost in their sins. In addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit these Gentile believers also received the spiritual gift of tongues, which is ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12) How many lost unbelievers receive spiritual gifts? Answer - 0.

The gift of tongues was given to Balaam's ass (Num 22).

 

[Ritajanice]

That born of water = natural birth is really a silly interpretation. That euphemism appears nowhere else in Scripture. It appears nowhere in history. It is not one that appears anywhere today. The only place you can find it is in the erroneous translation/interpretation of this one single passage. Clearly it is invalid.

In your opinion...no more valid than anyone else’s.

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God......period.....that’s it!!

No need to complicate God’s word, with adding your own words.

John 3:1-21

English Standard Version

​

You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life

 

[JBO]

In your opinion...no more valid than anyone else’s.

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God......period.....that’s it!!

No need to complicate God’s word, with adding your own words.

You mean like adding your own words that born of water = natural birth?

 

[Ritajanice]

You mean like adding your own words that born of water = natural birth?

That’s my interpretation....that I believe...doesn’t make it any less valid than yours.

Flesh gives birth to flesh?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Born of water, from our mother womb.

Born of God...from our Fathers Spirit...my opinion ,my belief.


John 31 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [1] "4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [2] gives birth to spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You mean like adding your own words that born of water = natural birth?

You mean like adding your own words that born of water = being baptized in water?

 

[Ritajanice]

Born of water' refers to a physical birth, specifically being born a Jew. In John 3:5, this phrase is therefore used by Jesus to refer to the natural birth process, with 'water' referring to the amniotic fluid that surrounds the baby in the womb and is present during the birth process

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The law was not given to make you sinless. it was given to make you understand how sinful you were

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers…” (1 Timothy 1:8-9)

We establish the law because we no longer sin. We are born again walking in the Spirit.

You’re just confusing the situation with word play you learned from the heretics study books.

As a tutor to lead you to christ.

How do you read “the law is no more” in that statement?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Your grave error in your misuse of this text is not realizing that this refers to those who do not confess their sins, believing they have not sinned in the first place to need salvation.

These believe that they don’t need Christ to cleanse them.

I have confessed my past sins when I first believed.

You are a perfect example of the church sectarian who mishandles the Bible with clever and long winded explanations that fool the weak minded.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[mailmandan]

I could be mistaken but I believe that A T Robertson was the Greek "expert" who said that "for the forgiveness of sins" in Acts 2:38 and elsewhere could be translated/interpreted as "because" of the forgiveness of sins. That is something that no other Greek "expert" would say or tolerate. Clearly,, such an expert cannont be trusted.

You cannot even be honest with Acts 10:43-47 and I'm supposed to trust you? I would trust AT Robertson over you any day.

 

[mailmandan]

The gift of tongues was given to Balaam's ass (Num 22).

One of the most ludicrous arguments from church of Christ folks that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not get saved and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for believers only.

 

[Godslittleservant]

That’s my interpretation....that I believe...doesn’t make it any less valid than yours.

See here is our problem yes it does make a difference for there is only one truth in Gods word and our interpretation of it does matter. We can not have differing interpretation and both be right we can both be wrong but not both right if we disagree so we must go to the word and study to show ourselves approved. We can never be so confident in our own understanding if it is not according to scripture. when we get in a discussion with others and there is a conflict then we must point to scripture to find the answer.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need to look at the scriptures in YOUR language.

My language is a flawed language, and does not always represent what the origional text says.

Boy, this statement shows just how much knowledge you lack in the scriptures!

Getting angry is not a sin. Much less being provoked to anger.

“Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:” (Ephesians 4:26)

“And when [Jesus] had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts…” (Mark 3:5)

lol. If you want to excuse your sin, thats fine. Don;t judge me for admitting when i sin (my mind was on self at that time, not on serving others.. I was in the flesh. THAT IS SIN

It is you who does not understand what sin is, if you did, you would not claim you are perfect

You are soo immature and ignorant of what holiness is according to the word of God!

Not even worth responding to. In fact. You have just sinned right here. Although you will deny it

You have your own idea of what Sinlessness really is!

No.

I look to God and find out what HIS idea of sinlessness is.

sinlessness would be perfect love, NEVER doing anything in the flesh (self over others) and always serving God and others.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers…” (1 Timothy 1:8-9)

Yep.. It was made for them. so they could be led to christ

We establish the law because we no longer sin. We are born again walking in the Spirit.

lol. Then you are under law not under grace. You have graduated from the nered for grace. Con graduations!

You’re just confusing the situation with word play you learned from the heretics study books.

The bible is a heretic study book?

Wow. Glad to know what you think of it

How do you read “the law is no more” in that statement?

It means the law has done its job, Now I need to move on to what I need to grow in Christ, and not remain a babe in Christ, ie, leave the mild. and start to eat meat

What is a babe in chrisd in your view?

 

[Godslittleservant]

One of the most ludicrous arguments from church of Christ folks that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not get saved and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for believers only.

Sorry I had to join in . It is one of most ludicrous arguments that the bible does not show that there is a difference in the SPIRIT UPON and the SPIRIT WITHIN There is a difference and if you would allow it to be shown you from scripture not man you would be able to clear up a lot of confusion. Acts 19:1-5 verses 6 shows the difference but you cannot see it because you cannot see past your Calvinistic understanding. You want to ignore verse 1-5 where Paul makes it clear that the indwelling was given through the baptism in Christ name and lump verse 6 in there but it is not what the scriptures say they say verse 6 was the empowering of witness as in Mark 16:17-20 and Acts 1:8 the bible makes clear distinction that the spirit upon is not for salvation but for witnessing it is signs to confirm the word it is clearly given the reason you must let go of what you learnt from Calvin and see the truth in scripture for it is given for you to trust in and believe God at his word.

The giving of the promised indwelling spirit is clearly taught comes through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as Peter said in Acts 2:38 and Paul confirms in Acts 19:1-5. Read Acts 19:1-5 and tell me Paul is not talking about the indwelling spirit coming through the baptism in Christ name and then once he cleared up the wrong baptism because the baptism of John could not give the spirit it only pointed to the baptism in Jesus name in which that one did give the spirit then he laid hands on them to give them the power to confirm the word they will be preaching is from God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your grave error in your misuse of this text is not realizing that this refers to those who do not confess their sins, believing they have not sinned in the first place to need salvation.

This is error

John included himself in this passage, So he was already saved

These believe that they don’t need Christ to cleanse them.

I am quite sure John believed Christ cleansed him

I have confessed my past sins when I first believed.

John said to continue to confess your sins. even after

You are a perfect example of the church sectarian who mishandles the Bible with clever and long winded explanations that fool the weak minded.

Your the perfect example of someone who can not talk about the word. so you have to resort to silly non applicable comments like this..

 

[Michiah-Imla]

John said to continue to confess your sins. even after

Quote the verse then.

Prove me wrong.