The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Truth7t7]

Spiritual discerned.
Now, explain to us how you believe the sun, moon and stars out there in space will be fulfilled literally in your interpretation. Or do you want me to explain to you with a magic wand through Scripture? :)

Your symbolic allegory of the "Literal" seen is laughable!

The cosmic events will be "Literal", just as the "Earthquake" will be "Literal" upon this earth as seen below, do you have some more magic wand waving to change the "Literal" seen below also?

Big Smiles!

Revelation 6:12-17KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[rebuilder 454]

But 1 Peter 4:12-19 plainly states that we must face trials and testing in order to be found worthy. When the fiery test comes, we are told to stand firm in our faith and to call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved.
James 1:12 Happy is he who stands up to trial. Having passed that test, he will receive in reward the life that God has Promised.

So any idea of an unexpected and anytime pre-trib 'rapture to heaven', is false and cannot happen.

In Matthew 24:37-41, -those taken and those left; is paralleled by Jesus to be the same as Noah and the Ark, where those taken were drowned and those left floated on the waters and survived.

Your confident assertions of a rapture, are just wishful thinking and contradict much scripture.
I look forward to the Day the Lord will act to destroy His enemies and then Promises to Bless His faithful peoples, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy land.

Baby Jesus taken
Lot taken
Elijah taken
Enoch taken
Two witnesses taken
5 wise virgins taken
Church taken
Dead in christ taken
Paul taken
John taken
144k taken
Innumerable number b4 the throne taken.
Jews taken in rev 14 by jesus with a sickle

All but lot taken to heaven

You= jesus only takes people to hell

 

[PinSeeker]

You proved you have no postjudgement gathering.

LOL! Sigh...

Where is your gathering post judgement???

You mean where on earth? I mean... <eyeroll>... The meek will inherit the earth... There will probably be lots and lots and lots of post-judgment gatherings... :)

yeah we can all see no gathering post judgement

Yeah, now I have no idea where your mind is going. And don't care, really.

you can not refute what i posted

Well, it depends on what specifically you're talking about. Some ~ some ~ of what you have said I agree with (and I have said as much; other things, not so much... I have, of course, disagreed with, and have been very clear as to why. Whether you accept that or not ~ which, obviously you haven't ~ is, as I have said, not up to me. So, your thinking that I "can't refute" what you posted matters not, except to say that's your opinion, and I respect it.

But keep trying.

Baby Jesus taken
Lot taken
Elijah taken
Enoch taken
Two witnesses taken
5 wise virgins taken
Church taken
Dead in christ taken
Paul taken
John taken
144k taken
Innumerable number b4 the throne taken.
Jews taken in rev 14 by jesus with a sickle

All but lot taken to heaven

You= jesus only takes people to hell

Well, no, Jesus will send many folks away... to... hell... those on His left at the final Judgment. He will say to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 25:41-46, Matthew 7:23, respectively), again, at the final Judgment. And, they will obediently go...

Grace and peace to you.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL! Sigh...


You mean where on earth? I mean... <eyeroll>... The meek will inherit the earth... There will probably be lots and lots and lots of post-judgment gatherings... :)


Yeah, now I have no idea where your mind is going. And don't care, really.


Well, it depends on what specifically you're talking about. Some ~ some ~ of what you have said I agree with (and I have said as much; other things, not so much... I have, of course, disagreed with, and have been very clear as to why. Whether you accept that or not ~ which, obviously you haven't ~ is, as I have said, not up to me. So, your thinking that I "can't refute" what you posted matters not, except to say that's your opinion, and I respect it.

Well, no, Jesus will send many folks away... to... hell... those on His left at the final Judgment. He will say to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 25:41-46, Matthew 7:23, respectively), again, at the final Judgment. And, they will obediently go...

Grace and peace to you.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.

Do you ever actually honestly speak, or is it just juvenile mocking and goofyness?
Man up or go mock somebody else jr.

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL! Sigh...


You mean where on earth? I mean... <eyeroll>... The meek will inherit the earth... There will probably be lots and lots and lots of post-judgment gatherings... :)


Yeah, now I have no idea where your mind is going. And don't care, really.


Well, it depends on what specifically you're talking about. Some ~ some ~ of what you have said I agree with (and I have said as much; other things, not so much... I have, of course, disagreed with, and have been very clear as to why. Whether you accept that or not ~ which, obviously you haven't ~ is, as I have said, not up to me. So, your thinking that I "can't refute" what you posted matters not, except to say that's your opinion, and I respect it.

Well, no, Jesus will send many folks away... to... hell... those on His left at the final Judgment. He will say to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 25:41-46, Matthew 7:23, respectively), again, at the final Judgment. And, they will obediently go...

Grace and peace to you.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.

You= no such thing as a gathering.

You cant prove it or find that in the bible

You really don't read much do you?

You are here just to troll and mock like some little kid.
We have a guy like you at our mens bible study. He is a walking miracle because doctors said he would be a vegetable all his life due to a horse kicking him in the head.
We give him a pass because he is mentally hadicapped, but his mocking and antics are distracting for those that reverence God and His Word.
Once and a while he has to be shut down from the goofyness and mocking.
Simply has to be done.
You are not an asset to the board for the same reason.
You see the bible and christians as a joke.
...and you come on here to be cute and snarky, then plaster your little mischief with smilies and "grace to you" .
Plain goofy.

 

[PinSeeker]

Do you ever actually honestly speak...

Well, I have, many times, but you seem incapable of just congenially disagreeing with anybody.

, or is it just juvenile mocking and goofyness?

Well at this point, with what you keep coming back at me with, all I can do is laugh... and I'm being quite serious in saying that. And honestly, Rebuilder, in many, many ways, you've brought it on yourself, and have made yourself a really easy target. :)

But, you know... point taken, at least in part; I apologize for mocking you. Really. I do. Even though you have richly deserved it... :)

Man up...

Eye roll...

or go mock somebody else

Only when necessary, for humor's sake, and not just mine... :)

jr.

Eye roll... The age thing again (and name-calling)... lol! You know, it matters not, but I would bet you and I are pretty close in age...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

You= no such thing as a gathering.

No, I'm just not sure what you mean by "a gathering"... what you're referring to.

You cant prove it or find that in the bible

There are... many gatherings, described in varying degrees and for various purposes, all throughout the Bible. But again, I'd have to know what you're specifically talking about, or referring to.

You really don't read much do you?

You are here just to troll and mock like some little kid.
We have a guy like you at our mens bible study. He is a walking miracle because doctors said he would be a vegetable all his life due to a horse kicking him in the head.
We give him a pass because he is mentally hadicapped, but his mocking and antics are distracting for those that reverence God and His Word.
Once and a while he has to be shut down from the goofyness and mocking.
Simply has to be done.
You are not an asset to the board for the same reason.
You see the bible and christians as a joke.
...and you come on here to be cute and snarky, then plaster your little mischief with smilies and "grace to you" .
Plain goofy.

Ah, you're just very angry, now...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Hobie]

Your symbolic allegory of the "Literal" seen is laughable!

The cosmic events will be "Literal", just as the "Earthquake" will be "Literal" upon this earth as seen below, do you have some more magic wand waving to change the "Literal" seen below also?

Big Smiles!

Revelation 6:12-17KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is the final signs of incredible events that we see in Daniel also...
Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is the final signs of incredible events that we see in Daniel also...
Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael is sometimes used as a name for Jesus Christ, who is considered to be the Messiah and Prince who defends His people, Israel. This includes all the Saints from the Old and New Testament, who are mentioned in the Book of Life.

 

[rwb]

Michael is sometimes used as a name for Jesus Christ, who is considered to be the Messiah and Prince who defends His people, Israel. This includes all the Saints from the Old and New Testament, who are mentioned in the Book of Life.

This is a good example of why the Olivet Discourse must be interpreted as dual fulfillment. First for the Jews of the Old Covenant nation, lastly for all the nations of the world of the New Covenant Israel of God.

Daniel's prophesy has dual fulfillment, because the faithful saints of Old whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, were delivered from bondage of death and the grave after the resurrection of Christ. Before Christ ascended to heaven He first descended into the graves (lower parts of the earth) and the Old Covenant faithful ascended spiritually alive to heaven with Him. There they remain as a spiritual body of believers in heaven called "living souls."

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Since the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection, all who live and die in Him join the spiritual body of believers in heaven alive, living souls.

 

[Truth7t7]

Michael is sometimes used as a name for Jesus Christ

By the cults of 7th Day Adventist and Jehovahs Witnesses

 

[Truth7t7]

Since the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection, all who live and die in Him join the spiritual body of believers in heaven alive, living souls.

The Bible teaches those that die in faith are comforted in Abraham's Bosom awaiting the resurrection

 

[rwb]

The Bible teaches those that die in faith are comforted in Abraham's Bosom awaiting the resurrection

Were they awaiting a resurrection, or a home in heaven? Hebrews tells us these Old Covenant faithful saints patiently waited, looking for a heavenly dwelling place. Perhaps these saints of Old believed that heaven would be a transitional place, a place where the spiritual body of believers would be prepared as a bride adorned for her husband, a place where they would be spiritually alive until time given this earth shall be no longer.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:16 (KJV) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Galatians 4:26 (KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

They are no longer waiting in Abraham's bosom. Christ descended there to set the captives free. Through the resurrection of Christ, they ascended to heaven a spiritual body alive to wait for the last day, in an hour coming, and the last trumpet sounds, and their bodies too would be resurrected from the grave immortal & incorruptible and made alive by their spirit that would return with Christ.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 (KJV) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[PinSeeker]

What a pity you resort to all those little games.

I don't play games, Rebuilder.

"...your angry now"
Like a 7th grader without any mature substance.

More or less, yes. I would probably put it a little differently, but yes.

Trolling and playing little games.

Funny how we attribute to each other the very same thing, no?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Hobie]

This is a good example of why the Olivet Discourse must be interpreted as dual fulfillment. First for the Jews of the Old Covenant nation, lastly for all the nations of the world of the New Covenant Israel of God.

Daniel's prophesy has dual fulfillment, because the faithful saints of Old whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, were delivered from bondage of death and the grave after the resurrection of Christ. Before Christ ascended to heaven He first descended into the graves (lower parts of the earth) and the Old Covenant faithful ascended spiritually alive to heaven with Him. There they remain as a spiritual body of believers in heaven called "living souls."

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Since the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection, all who live and die in Him join the spiritual body of believers in heaven alive, living souls.

Those were resurrected saints bodily as you can see, the first fruits of what will happen at the end, at the Second Coming.

 

[rwb]

Those were resurrected saints bodily as you can see, the first fruits of what will happen at the end, at the Second Coming.

None will be physically resurrected before an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds.

 

[Keraz]

Those were resurrected saints bodily as you can see, the first fruits of what will happen at the end, at the Second Coming.

The Second coming of Jesus is not the end, it is the beginning of a thousand years of mankind living as God always intended.
Only the martyrs killed for their faith during the Great Tribulation in the final 3 1/2 years; will be raised when Jesus Returns.

The Last Trumpet to raise ALL the dead, will be blown after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[PinSeeker]

The Second coming of Jesus is not the end...

It is the end of the "thousand years"... the fullness of God's time in bring "all Israel," as Paul puts it in Romans 11:25-26, which consists of all Gentile and Jewish believers whom He calls ~ collectively, His elect ~ to completion

, it is the beginning of a thousand years of mankind living as God always intended.

Jesus's return marks the beginning of eternity... actually, after the second resurrection and the final Judgment have taken place and the wicked depart.

Only the martyrs killed for their faith during the Great Tribulation in the final 3 1/2 years; will be raised when Jesus Returns.

As Jesus says in John 5:28-29, "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." He is actually referring to/quoting from Daniel 12:2 there, where Daniel records the words of an unnamed man (actually begun in Daniel 10:10) ~ Who is actually the pre-incarnate Christ Jesus ~ saying, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." This is the second resurrection.

The Last Trumpet to raise ALL the dead, will be blown after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Agree. But... :) We disagree on the millennium. It is not future only. It was begun quite some time ago and still has yet to come to completion.

Grace and pace to you, Keraz!

 

[Keraz]

We disagree on the millennium. It is not future only. It was begun quite some time ago and still has yet to come to completion.

The AMill belief is a contradiction of reality.
The reality is that Satan is still prowling around and deceiving many. The Millennium will commence when visibly Returns and imprisons Satan. It will end with Satans release, then the final Judgment and then- Eternity.

 

[PinSeeker]

The AMill belief is a contradiction of reality.

Some think that, for sure. :)

The reality is that Satan is still prowling around and deceiving many.

Sure. But he is unable to deceive the nations, as it is shown to John (and us) in the vision given to him in Revelation 20. Thus is his current "binding," which Jesus Himself alludes to, as documented by Matthew, Mark, and Luke:

• "...how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house" (Matthew 12:29).
• "...no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house" (Mark 3:27).
• "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil" (Luke 11:21-22).

Jesus is most certainly plundering Satan's house, dividing his spoil, as it were.

The Millennium will commence when visibly Returns and imprisons Satan.

Disagree. See above.

It will end with Satans release...

Well, he will be loosed ~ to deceive the nations ~ for a short time, for sure.

...then the final Judgment and then- Eternity.

Agree here, but this is a contradiction of what you just said in your previous post, Keraz.

Grace and peace to you.