The Great Apostasy in the Church.

[Earburner]

God does not allow Satan to do anything outside of God's plan. Your scenario of implementation is not suddenly.

There is no plan of God for this planet earth or the world of the unsaved, except total destruction.
However, before the foundation of the world, there is the plan of God to save as many people as He can from eternal death, through faith in Jesus.
All else, concerning the kingdoms of men, is operative through the free will of Satan and the unsaved. We are shown that, by the Foreknowledge of God through the prophetic scriptures

 

[ewq1938]

Most are not aware that all of Dan. 7 was fulfilled in the first manifestation of Jesus, right upto the Day of Pentecost (the 2nd manifestation of Jesus)

Most would disagree with that.

Daniel says people are allowed to be alive after the destruction by fire of the ten horned beast which is led by the little horn who is commonly understood to be the AC and in Rev 19 the ten horned beast and the Ac are destroyed at the second coming and there are also people who are alive after those events. Daniel and Rev match on these things.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no plan of God for this planet earth or the world of the unsaved, except total destruction.

Nope. In Amill and Premill the thousand years is populated by the unsaved. Amill is wrong about when the thousand years takes place and how long it lasts but cannot say unsaved people cannot be in the Premill thousand years. Scripture outright declares the unsaved nations will be in the thousand years. The entire purpose of the thousand year period is to have the unsaved there. It's just as foolish when Pretrib claims the church isn't in the GT when the church being persecuted in the GT is the entire purpose of the GT.

 

[Earburner]

Most would disagree with that.

Daniel says people are allowed to be alive after the destruction by fire of the ten horned beast which is led by the little horn who is commonly understood to be the AC and in Rev 19 the ten horned beast and the Ac are destroyed at the second coming and there are also people who are alive after those events. Daniel and Rev match on these things.

I have said this before, and I'll continue saying it: the prophetic book of Daniel was for ("thy people") God's people of faith Israel, in the past "Age of God's Indignation", as the prophetic book of Revelation is for God's people of faith in Jesus, in this present "Age of God's Grace".

In both books, God prophesied from His foreknowledge about the Age that was present, and the Age which was to follow next.

There is no singular man of flesh, called "THE" Antichrist to come.
However, there have been, and now are, those who are of the spirit of antichrist, which is plural. All of them are of "the natural man", being each "the man of sin", aka "the son of perditon".
Judas Iscariot is not the ONLY ONE, who is called "the son of perdition". John 17:12.
God's destruction of them, will be of "MANY"!!

 

[Earburner]

Nope. In Amill and Premill the thousand years is populated by the unsaved. Amill is wrong about when the thousand years takes place and how long it lasts but cannot say unsaved people cannot be in the Premill thousand years. Scripture outright declares the unsaved nations will be in the thousand years.

The Amil view, of the present symbolic 1000 years, is factual and legitimate of why the unsaved are among the saved.
It is exactly how, when and why God's Grace is extended to ALL people equally, until God sends Jesus to redeem ALL of His "New creatures", called saints.

 

[Davy]

The Amil view, of the present symbolic 1000 years, is factual and legitimate of why the unsaved are among the saved.
It is exactly how, when and why God's Grace is extended to ALL people equally, until God sends Jesus to redeem ALL of His "New creatures", called saints.

What you are saying shows you don't understand what all man's false doctrine of Amillennialism believes.

Amill doctrine believes that all the wicked are judged and cast into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, i.e., the very last day of this present world. They also wrongly believe that God's new heavens and a new earth begins on that same day of Christ's return. No such idea as that is written in God's Word.

Instead, God's Word reveals that at Christ's future return, Satan will be locked in his pit prison unable to tempt the nations, and then Jesus with His elect reign over the unsaved nations for a "thousand years". Then right after the "thousand years", Satan is loosed one final time to go tempt those unsaved nations, and those that follow Satan up against the "camp of saints' that will be on earth, will be consumed by God's fire sent down from Heaven. Then the books are opened to see if any of those of those nations converted to Christ, with their names found in the book of life. Then Satan, death, the abode of hell, all perish with being cast into the "lake of fire".

Only then, once Satan, death, and hell are cast into the "lake of fire", will God's new heavens and a new earth time begin. Thus the end events of Rev.20 reveal Amillennialism to be just another one of those false doctrines of men.

 

[Earburner]

What you are saying shows you don't understand what all man's false doctrine of Amillennialism believes.

I have shown numerous times that I don't believe or follow ALL of the traditional Amil view by denominational church-ianity, but rather a hybrid form of it, as it is taught by the Holy Spirit. That is why you think that I don't understand Amil.

For example: the 144,000 is a symbolic number of Israel that lived under the OC, who never were allowed to permanently receive the Holy Spirit, until the shed blood of Christ and his resurrection.
Therefore as Malachi 3:16 reveals, the best that God could do for them, was to remember them who were of faith, having their names in a book of Remembrance before Him.

In Rev. 6:9-11, we are shown that those of Israel, who had died in faith believing of the "Promise to come", were waiting under the altar of the OC. They did receive the Holy Spirit, during the time of Jesus' death and resurrection, being symbolized as white robes.

Edit:
Why is it that Premil hasn't learned that all Jews are now under the NC, and therefore all Jews are no different than the Gentiles, since Jesus' death and resurrection. All Jews who have come to Jesus in faith for the gift of God's Holy Spirit and His salvation, will appear in the Great Multitude, and shall not appear or be anything else.

 

[Earburner]

Nope. In Amill and Premill the thousand years is populated by the unsaved. Amill is wrong about when the thousand years takes place and how long it lasts but cannot say unsaved people cannot be in the Premill thousand years. Scripture outright declares the unsaved nations will be in the thousand years. The entire purpose of the thousand year period is to have the unsaved there. It's just as foolish when Pretrib claims the church isn't in the GT when the church being persecuted in the GT is the entire purpose of the GT.

Why would the unsaved be there, when the Grace of God, for the forgiveness of sins, will have ended upon Jesus' Glorious return in Immortality? Why do you think that God should give ALL them who took the MoB a second chance?

 

[ewq1938]

Why would the unsaved be there, when the Grace of God, for the forgiveness of sins, will have ended upon Jesus' Glorious return in Immortality? Why do you think that God should give ALL them who took the MoB a second chance?

Doesn't matter. It's a fact that in the Millennium, whether Amill or Premill, there are unsaved people/marked people there.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no singular man of flesh, called "THE" Antichrist to come.

The bible speaks of a singular Ac to come though. There is no need for a "the".

However, there have been, and now are, those who are of the spirit of antichrist, which is plural.

Strawman fallacy.

All of them are of "the natural man", being each "the man of sin", aka "the son of perditon".

Paul spoke of a certain man of sin who can perform miracles to deceive and will claim to be God. Rev 13 describes a similar person who also performs miracles to deceive. Both speak of teh same future person we commonly can the AC, the same person John said was coming and was written as a singular antichrist.

I mean, if you deny the future AC he always has you deceived. That's a perfect scenario for the AC. All false doctrines deny the AC in some way. I have noticed this is various teachings. Some say he came in the past and some deny he even exists and some say the church will be gone before he arrives. None of them prepare ppl to deal with the fact that some day a real AC will show up which will be why the Apostasy takes place. IOW many will have no idea he is the AC but will think he is actually God as he will say he is.

 

[ewq1938]

The Amil view, of the present symbolic 1000 years, is factual and legitimate of why the unsaved are among the saved.
It is exactly how, when and why God's Grace is extended to ALL people equally, until God sends Jesus to redeem ALL of His "New creatures", called saints.

And obviously my point is that the Millennium will have these unsaved people in any version of the Millennium. Furthermore God's grace and second chances end when the Millennium ends in Amill and Premill.

 

[quietthinker]

The Great a post asy in the Church.​

Something's going on for sure, I'm only getting mail once a week!

 

[Earburner]

And obviously my point is that the Millennium will have these unsaved people in any version of the Millennium. Furthermore God's grace and second chances end when the Millennium ends in Amill and Premill.

The word A-millennium means no literal 1000 years, being symbolic of an undisclosed amount of time, which is this present Age of God's Grace, through faith in Jesus, which began on Pentecost.

Spritually speaking, we are still under Pentecost, through the 2nd manifestation of Christ, by His Spirit. Rom. 8:8-9; Rev. 3:20
It hasn't ended yet, but it shall end, when Jesus returns from heaven in His 3rd and final manifestation, in flaming fire. KJV 2 Thes 1:7-10
Edit:
"Church-ianity", through "the wisdom of men", has it all misconstrued, and is causing Christians to have their faith standing in the wisdom of men, and not by the power of God's teaching by His Holy Spirit. 1 Co. 2:5

 

[Earburner]

The bible speaks of a singular Ac to come though. There is no need for a "the".

I am glad that you said that, because that is exactly the case for the KJV.
In the KJV, one will never find the words "the" and "antichrist" strung together, so as to imply "that spirit OF antichrist" should be erroneously understood in the singular, being only one man.
However, in many of the spurious newer versions of modern bibles, it is written as "the antichrist".

 

[Earburner]

And obviously my point is that the Millennium will have these unsaved people in any version of the Millennium. Furthermore God's grace and second chances end when the Millennium ends in Amill and Premill.

You are misconstruing two opposing concepts, attempting to establish a false conclusion.

After the Glorious return of Jesus, his 3rd and final manifestation, the Premil view concludes that their is then a hope for a "second chance" for salvation, whereas the Amil view emphatically reveals that there is no such thing as a "second chance" for salvation, after the glorious appearing of Christ from heaven.

 

[Earburner]

Paul spoke of a certain man of sin who can perform miracles to deceive and will claim to be God. Rev 13 describes a similar person who also performs miracles to deceive. Both speak of teh same future person we commonly can the AC, the same person John said was coming and was written as a singular antichrist.

I mean, if you deny the future AC he always has you deceived. That's a perfect scenario for the AC. All false doctrines deny the AC in some way. I have noticed this is various teachings. Some say he came in the past and some deny he even exists and some say the church will be gone before he arrives. None of them prepare ppl to deal with the fact that some day a real AC will show up which will be why the Apostasy takes place. IOW many will have no idea he is the AC but will think he is actually God as he will say he is.

Allow me to put it this way: the 2H Beast (USA) has called and persuaded, for all the people of the world to make an image to the beast. Rev. 13:11-18.
That image is the UN, which is what the people (plural) of the world have made (1945). The UN is "of THAT spirit of antichrist", and therefore "appears" to have the benevolence of Christian thinking, but is diabolically subtle, in its denial of Christ. "Having a form of godliness (good intentions), but denying the power thereof".
2 Tim. 3:5.

So then, let's talk about "peace and security", via the UN.
What does the Bible say about "peace and safety" (security)?
1 Thes. 5:1-6
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

United Nations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Timtofly]

The Amil view, of the present symbolic 1000 years, is factual and legitimate of why the unsaved are among the saved.
It is exactly how, when and why God's Grace is extended to ALL people equally, until God sends Jesus to redeem ALL of His "New creatures", called saints.

But you blatantly disregard God's Word that clearly states those in Christ are no longer "the dead" but have eternal life, even while stuck in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

That is the second birth. That adoption into God's family removes us from death into life.

No one in Christ will be found among the dead in Revelation 20:11-15.

If you claim some are resurrected to eternal life at that point, that is a second chance. Because the living will not be found among the dead at that point, unless they are given a second chance and accepting the second birth at that point.

One reason many amil have rejected and left pre-mill is over that very point that the dead are allowed to live in the Millennium. No one lives in the Millennium in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They all have been removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is the point about Daniel 9:24.

"Finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

The Law was not mentioned once in that verse. There cannot be a removal of sin, and everlasting righteousness if some humans are still hanging out in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. It will not be their choice. This redemption will be forced on them against their free will nature of sin. That is what happened to Adam. His physical perfection was taken away against his choice and he was forced into the physical body of death. Adam's choice was to disobey God, and the result was death. Since the Cross, Adam's dead corruptible offspring has had the free will choice to accept the second birth. It is not forced on them, nor are they forced to reject the second birth.

Under the OT economy, Israel was born into the Law with the only choice to reject the Law in unbelief, thus stripping them of their only means of salvation. So the promise in Daniel was not just to remove the burden of the Law. That promise was to remove sin, and thus the need for the Law in the first place. The Law only teaches us how sinful we are. In itself, the Law cannot save us. The salvation was the guarantee of the Covenant with God, and the Law was just the means of keeping the Covenant in effect.

This promise of God is to restore this current creation. Creation is not restored by simply removing Creation from existence and starting over. That would be replacement not restoration. Restoration involves placing humanity back into Adam's original body. Physical death was God replacing that body with another body, a body of death. That is the only Biblical replacement. Two physical bodies. One from God. One from Adam that God placed Adam and Eve into after Adam disobeyed God. That is why humans have no choice in being "the dead". The second birth gives as the promise that when we leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh, we have a permanent incorruptible physical body in heaven. The same body all will have during the Millennium. That is the removal of sin, and everlasting righteousness in this creation. This creation is restored, not replaced with a new creation. The NHNE is after the Day of the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

But you blatantly disregard God's Word that clearly states those in Christ are no longer "the dead" but have eternal life, even while stuck in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

That is the second birth. That adoption into God's family removes us from death into life.

You are talking to the choir here.
John.11
[26] And whosoever liveth AND believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Rom. 8
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Edit: you are misunderstanding my words, which are biblically on target by the Holy Spirit, and not that of the wisdom of men. (Clue: look at the words in my avatar).

 

[Earburner]

No one in Christ will be found among the dead in Revelation 20:11-15.

If you claim some are resurrected to eternal life at that point, that is a second chance. Because the living will not be found among the dead at that point, unless they are given a second chance and accepting the second birth at that point.

Again, please see Rom. 8:9.
Upon Christ's glorious return, in Immortality, if anyone is found to be without the Spirit of Christ, there are NO SECOND CHANCES for the offer of salvation, no matter how many thousands of years of a future millennium.

 

[Earburner]

This promise of God is to restore this current creation. Creation is not restored by simply removing Creation from existence and starting over. That would be replacement not restoration. Restoration involves placing humanity back into Adam's original body.

Sorry, but do you know what a "new creature" is??
To be born again BY God's Holy Spirit, is to be BORN FROM ABOVE NOW. No one, saved or unsaved, is going to be "restored" back to the original Adam before the fall.

All who are born again now, are already made to be "New creatures" by His Spirit. We all who are in Christ, are just waiting to be made in to the likeness of Christ's IMMORTALITY, so that "where He is, there we may be also".