The Great Apostasy in the Church.

[Hobie]

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth and falling away from the truth we are given in Gods Word. We have been warned that this would happen in the church, and it did happen.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If there is indeed an apostasy occurring in the church, how would we know it unless we first examined the Bible closely and then compared it. But what if the church took away and forbid Gods Word as happened. So how was this able to get in and bring such great apostasy into what Christ and the Apostles brought up with such care. It was through subtle and secret changes, done with evil discipline to hide the apostasy that they brought in slowly, so few would notice. So what did they use, well lets look and see what even they who brought the evil, boast and history shows on how they did it.

If you look into church history you will find what is called the Disciplina Arcani or Discipline of the Secret or Discipline of the Arcane, which was a restriction imposing silence upon Christians with respect to their rites and doctrines. It was a theological term used to describe the 'tradition' or custom which came in and prevailed in the church, whereby knowledge of the more 'intimate mysteries' of the Christian religion was carefully kept from non-Christians and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the faith. The true origin of these 'mysteries' came from the oral teachings from Greek and Hellenistic sources which formed the basis of this secret oral tradition, which in the 4th century came to be called the disciplina arcani. It appears that it contained liturgical details and certain other ancient customs which remain a part of Christianity, for example, the doctrine of Transubstantiation is thought to have been a part of this. So lets look below the surface and see what this "Discipline" actually is from several sources.

Disciplina Arcani: A Latin phrase, meaning discipline of the secret and referring to a practice of the early Church, especially during the Roman persecutions, to: (1) conceal Christian truths from those who, it was feared, would misinterpret, ridicule and profane the teachings, and persecute Christians for believing them; (2) instruct catechumens in a gradual manner, withholding the teaching of certain doctrines until the catechumens proved themselves of good faith and sufficient understanding.

http://www.osv.com/OSV4MeNav/CatholicAl ... fault.aspx, Our Sunday Visitor's Catholic Almanac: Glossary D-M, 'Disciplina Arcani':

This term signifies in general that which is unknowable, or valuable knowledge that is kept secret. In pagan antiquity the word mystery was used to designate certain esoteric doctrines, such as Pythagoreanism, or certain ceremonies that were performed in private or whose meaning was known only to the initiated, e.g., the Eleusinian rites, Phallic (penis) worship. In the language of the early Christians the mysteries were those religious teachings that were carefully guarded from the knowledge of the profane (see DISCIPLINE OF THE SECRET).

..theological term used to express the custom which prevailed in the earliest ages of the Church, by which the knowledge of the more intimate mysteries of the Christian religion was carefully kept from the heathen and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the Faith. The custom itself is beyond dispute.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Discipline of the Secret (Catholic Encyclopedia), Discipline of the Secret (Latin Disciplina Arcani ):

There are many other "unwritten mysteries of the Church," says St. Basilc. 66 and 67). They are not mentioned in the Scripture. But they are of great authority and significance. They are indispensable for the preservation of right faith. They are effective means of witness and communication. According to St. Basil, they come from a "silent" and "private" tradition: [From the silent and mystical tradition, from the unpublic and ineffable teaching]. This "silent" and "mystical" tradition, "which has not been made public," is not an esoteric doctrine, reserved for some particular elite. The "elite" was the Church. In fact, "tradition" to which St. Basil appeals, is the liturgical practice of the Church. St. Basil is referring here to what is now denoted as disciplina arcani [The discipline of secrecy].

[Cf. Hermann Dörries, De Spiritu Sancto, Der Beitrag des Basilius zum Abschluss des trinitarischen Dogmas (Göttingen, 1956); J. A. Jungmann, S.J., Die Stellung Christi im liturgischen Gebet, 2. Auflage (Münster i/W, 1962), ss. 155 ff., 163 ff.; Dom David Amand, Lascese monastique de Saint Basile, Editions de Maredsous (1949), pp. 75-85. The footnotes in the critical editions of the treatise De Spiritu S. by C. F. H. Johnson (Oxford, 1892) and by Benoit Pruche, O.P. (in the Sources Chrètiennes, Paris, 1945) are highly instructive and helpful. On disciplina arcani see O. Perler, s.v. Arkandisciplin, in Reallexikon für Antike and Christentum, Bd. I (Stuttgart, 1950), ss. 671-676,. Joachim Jeremias, Die Abendmahlsworte Jesu (Göttingen, 1949), ss. 59 ff., 78 ff., contended that disciplina arcani could be detected already in the formation of the text of the Gospels, and actually existed also in Judaism; cf. the sharp criticism of this thesis by R. P. C. Hanson, Tradition in the Early Church (London, 1962), pp. 27 ss].

So is this a Christian belief or direction from the Apostles that should be in the church, it appears not. Does it have any scriptural support or sanction, it appears to fail on that point. So why did it come into the church. To bring in apostasy or the falling away, and pagan 'traditions' that only was known to a select group of 'initiates', and kept from the faithful who would have seen the evil in it and stopped the apostasy from coming into the church.

 

[Hobie]

If this is not a Christian belief, where does it come from, well lets focus on the origin of these 'Mysteries'. It seems that many corruptions from Greek mythology and Hellenistic philosophy and other non Christian sources such as Gnosticism came into the early church and this included the ancient 'Mysteries'. So lets see what these were..

...The cults of the mystery religions were influenced uniformly by the ideas of the Greek philosophers. A few of them existed before the turn of the Era, but several more appeared at about the turn of the Era. They reached their height of popularity during the times of early Christianity. Christianity was born during a period of proliferation. Christianity itself in the beginning consisted of many cults that existed independently and had very diverse doctrines. Because of such diversity, it is debatable whether Gnosticism was just another cult of Christianity or whether it was a separate religion.

The following features were common to all mystery religions. Admission to the community was by a rite of initiation, a solemn consecration. The initiation was held in secret, which explains why they were called "mysteries."...
Esoteric Christianity: The Greek Mystery Religions and Their Impact on Christianity

Now the problem was that many Christians leaders were influenced or had picked up the pagan 'Mysteries' and mixed it with Christianity. Clement of Alexandria stated that 'what was taught in the Mysteries concerned the universe, and was the completion and perfection of all instruction; wherein things were seen as they were, and nature and her works were made known.'

Clement of Alexandria writings show that he was completely immersed in the pagan 'Myesteries' and are full of terminology taken directly from the language of the Pagan Mysteries. He writes of the Christian revelation as 'the holy Mysteries.' the ';divine secrets',... Clement further states 'I am become holy while I am being initiated.' Clement tells us that in early Christianity there were likewise Lesser Mysteries for beginners on the spiritual path and Greater Mysteries which were a secret higher knowledge, which led to full 'initiation.' The 'secret traditions of true Gnosis,' he explains, had been transmitted 'to a small number, by a succession of masters, and not in writing.'

So then we find the following connection...

"Alexandria was, in addition, one of the chief seats of that peculiar mixed pagan and Christian speculation known as Gnosticism. Basilides and Valentinus taught there. It is no matter of surprise, therefore, to find some of the Christians affected in turn by the scientific spirit. At an uncertain date, in the latter half of the second century, "a school of oral instruction" was founded. "
clement of alexandria

Note, it mixed pagan and Christian speculation, so a combining of paganism into Christianity

So lets look closer at the 'pagan speculation' and see what we find.

'The idea of self-knowledge is central to the purpose of the ancient Mysteries. The Greek Temple of Apollo at Delphi had inscribed 'Gnothi Seauton' or ';Know thy Self.' The Gnosis[8] or knowledge which initiates of the Mysteries sought and Masters taught was the knowledge of self. The Gnostic Book of Thomas stated:

'Whoever has not known himself has known nothing, but he who has known himself has at the same time already achieved Gnosis about the depth of all things.'

"This idea is extremely ancient and we may find interesting connections between our own ritual and that of the ancient Pagan[9] Mysteries of Greece, Egypt, and Persia.

The ancient Mysteries existed for the purpose of satisfying the desire of those who wished to know the nature of themselves and of their creator, their purpose in life, and what might come after life. Plato said that the object of the Mysteries was to re-establish the soul in its primitive purity, and to that state which it had lost..."

"The Mysteries demanded complete adherence to silence among its adherents."

'This demand was taken seriously in the Eleusinian Mysteries as failure to keep vows resulted in death. For this reason very little direct information exists concerning details of the Mysteries- the ritual, passwords, symbols and text."

"..More than five centuries before the arrival of Christianity, at Eleusis (a small town outside Athens) the people established the Eleusinian mysteries.There they reenacted the myth of Demeter's search and her reunion with her daughter Persephone. Every year two Eleusinian ceremonies were held: the Greater mysteries, in honor of Demeter and Kori, and the Lesser mysteries, in honor of Kori alone.

The Lesser mysteries were a preparation for the Greater ones. They were performed at Agrae on the river Ilissus (outside Athens) in the month of Anthesterion (February-March). Because of the oaths for secrecy we have sparse testimony of what exactly took place in the initiation ceremony. Something was recited, something was revealed, and acts were performed. Also, the initiates took an oath of secrecy before preparing for the Greater mysteries. The penalty for revealing the mysteries to outsiders was death. The initiates of the Lesser mysteries waited at least one year until they could participate in the Greater mysteries, which were held at Eleusis in the month of Boedromion (September-October). The Greater mysteries included baptism in the sea, three days of fasting, and the completion of the mysterious central rite. These acts completed the initiation, and the initiate was promised rewards in the life after death..."

Mithraism is an example of a "mystery religion" that flourished in the near east at that time. Mithraism took on the form of a mystery religion, with elaborate rights and ceremonies. It came into the ancient Roman world about 75 B.C. David Ulansey explains it is called such because " ..like the other ancient 'mystery religions,' such as the Eleusinian mysteries and the mysteries of Isis, the Mithraic cult maintained strict secrecy about its teachings and practices, revealing them only to initiates.

Did Christianity Steal From Mithraism? - Come Reason Ministries

The Catholic Encyclopedia has:
Mithraism A pagan religion consisting mainly of the cult of the ancient Indo-Iranian Sun-god Mithra. It entered Europe from Asia Minor after Alexander's conquest, spread rapidly over the whole Roman Empire at the beginning of our era...The origin of the cult of Mithra dates from the time that the Hindus and Persians still formed one people, for the god Mithra occurs in the religion and the sacred books of both races , i.e. in the Vedas and in the Avesta. In Vedic hymns he is frequently mentioned and is nearly always coupled with Varuna, but beyond the bare occurrence of his name, little is known of him (Rigveda, III, 59). It is conjectured (Oldenberg, "Die "Religion des Veda," Berlin , 1894) that Mithra was the rising sun, Varuna the setting sun; or, Mithra, the sky at daytime, Varuna, the sky at night; or, the one the sun, the other the moon. In any case Mithra is a light or solar deity of some sort

 

[Hobie]

So what connection does it have in Christianity today, well lets look...

"..There are four sets of "Mysteries of the Rosary" (Joyful, Luminous, Sorrowful, and Glorious). These four "Mysteries of the Rosary" therefore contain, a total of twenty mysteries. The Joyful, Luminous, Sorrowful, and Glorious Mysteries are then said on specific days of the week (see each set of mysteries below). During private recitation of the Rosary, each decade requires devout meditation on a specific mystery. Public recitation of the Rosary (two or more people), requires a leader to announce each of the mysteries before the decade, and start each prayer (see "The Family Rosary" below)."

How to Pray the Rosary

"The rosary beads provide a physical method of keeping count of the number of Hail Marys said as the mysteries are contemplated.[43] The fingers are moved along the beads as the prayers are recited. By not having to keep track of the count mentally, the mind is more able to meditate on the mysteries. A five decade rosary contains five groups of ten beads (a decade), with additional large beads before each decade.[47] The Hail Mary is said on the ten beads within a decade, while the Our Father is said on the large bead before each decade. A new mystery is meditated upon at each of the large beads. Some rosaries, particularly those used by religious orders, contain 15 decades, corresponding to the traditional 15 mysteries of the rosary. Both five and 15 decade rosaries are attached to a shorter strand, which starts with a crucifix followed by one large, three small, and one large beads before connecting to the rest of the rosary"

"Five methods of praying the rosary are presented within the works of Saint Louis de Montfort, a French Roman Catholic priest and writer of the early 18th century. Montfort was an early proponent of Mariology, and much of his work is devoted to the subjects of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the rosary. While the rosary contains a fixed set of prayers recited with the use of beads, Montfort proposed a number of methods to pray the rosary with more thorough devotion. Two of the methods are described in his book The Secret of the Rosary, in the fiftieth rose (chapter):

"In order to facilitate the exercise of the holy Rosary, here are several methods to recite it holily, with the meditation of the joyful, sorrowful and glorious mysteries of Jesus and Mary............."

And it goes on and on....

The Mysteries of the Rosary - Prayers - Catholic Online

 

[Hobie]

And its not just beads that are being used, here is from the Vatican Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. "The Catholic church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated host with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession."

Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church, published by Ligouri Publications, English translation © 1994 by the United States Catholic Conference, Inc.--Libreria Editrice Vaticana, bearing the Imprimi Potest of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, page 347.

We also find that transubstantiation was first practiced by ancient religions which had nothing to do with Christianity. The noted historian Durant said that belief in transubstantiation as practiced by the priests of the Roman Catholic system is "one of the oldest ceremonies of primitive religion." The Story Of Civilization, p. 741. The syncretism and mysticism of the Middle East were great factors in influencing the West, particularly Italy. Roman Society From Nero To Marcus Aurelius, Dill. In Egypt priests would consecrate mest cakes which were supposed to be come the flesh of Osiris. Encyclopedia Of Religions, Vol. 2, p. 76. The idea of transubstantiation was also characteristic of the religion of Mithra. The Mysteries are referenced or eluded to in respect to its various branches throughout ancient history and all of the Mysteries had a single root which appears to have been the Mysteries of Isis in Egypt. At a certain level ( or degree) the initiate was told that he would be part of a brotherhood spanning the entire world, which included the Greek Mysteries, Oriental Mysteries, the Jewish Mysteries (Kaballah) and presumably all other Mysteries so this spanned the known world, so its not picked up from any scripture or Biblical truth, it has its own origin.

 

[Hobie]

So lets go deeper and see what we have, lets look at the definition...

"Mystery religions, sacred mysteries or simply mysteries, were religious cults of the Greco-Roman world for which participation was reserved to initiates (mystai).[1] The main characterization of this religion is the secrecy associated with the particulars of the initiation and the cult practice, which may not be revealed to outsiders. The most famous mysteries of Greco-Roman antiquity were the Eleusinian Mysteries, which were of considerable antiquity and predated the Greek Dark Ages. The popularity of mystery cults flourished on Late Antiquity; Julian the Apostate in the mid 4th century is known to have been initiated into three distinct mystery cults—most notably the Mithraic Mysteries."

So the Mithraic Mysterys, that was picked up in the Roman Empire and blossomed. As Alexander the Great made conquests, mystery religions came with the territory. The same is true for the Roman Empire. The sun gods and goddesses including Mithra, Phrygian Cybele and the Egyptian Isis, to mention a few, were brought into the empires as annexations were made. And, of course, along with mystery religion came astrology, whose central figure is the sun. Mithraism was popular in the Roman Empire with many Emperors following, not just the populace. It had seven sacraments, the same as the Catholic Church, baptism, and communion with bread and water. The Eucharist hosts were signed with a cross, an ancient phallic symbol which originated in Egypt, and the Egyptian cross (the ankh) still shows the original form which included the female symbol

Rome gained dominance over the Grecian Empire. At the death of Caesar Augustus,the time of Christ, the Roman empire stretched from Spain to the Caspian Sea, including Egypt, the Sinai peninsula, and Israel. Christianity was born and grew up in this setting.

The most significant aspect of the Greco-Roman civilization connection was that of religion. The Greeks and Romans worshipped numerous gods, the Romans picked up the mystery religions of the Greeks and renamed their gods. Religious ceremonies, rites and festivals were very important and many were celebrated. Notable festivals include the Greek festival of Zeus, the birthday of the Roman sun god, and the celebrations in honor of the fertility goddess at the spring equinox. The Romans also picked up and believed in the pagan god named Mithra (or Mithras). He was known, in various forms, in India, Persia, Greece, and throughout the Roman Empire. For the Greeks and Romans in the first century, Mithras was the chief figure in a mystery religion called Mithraism that held prominence in the Roman Empire. remnant of Mithraism is most evident in the Christian Eucharist, which involves the eating of the flesh and drinking of the blood of a deity(Christ). Since the drinking of blood has always been an abomination in Judaism it was not the origin of this rite, it is much more logical to attribute this ritual to Mithraism, which had a much similar ritual. It is clear that Christianity adopted aspects of Mithraism, the setting of the birthday of Christ on December 25th, which was Mithra birthday, and the shifting of the day of worship to the day of the Sun. The celebration of December 25, a tradition that began in the 4th century so it was not from the Apostles, however December 25 was the birthday of the more popular Roman god known as the "Unconquered Sun" with whom Constantine identified himself, who was closely associated with Mithras. Mithras is always described as "sol invictus" (the unconquered sun) in inscriptions.

So we see how this mystery religion came in under Constantine who was the Roman Emperor, and a certainly a supporter of the mystery religion but presented himself as a Christian to gain their support. Here is a good explanation...

During the 1st century CE, a cult of Mithra, made much progress in Rome, after enduring persecution, when some Emperors adopted the religion... Mithra became very popular among the Roman legionaries and later even among the Emperors. The worship of Mithra was first recognized by Emperor Aurelian and he instituted the cult of "Sol Invictus" or the Invincible Sun. Emperor Diocletian also a worshipper of Mithra, the Sun God, burned much of the Christian scriptures in 307 CE

This enabled Emperor Constantine to merge the cult of Mithra with that of Christianity that was developing much. He declared himself a Christian but at the same time maintained his ties to the Mithra cult. He retained the title "Pontifus Maximus" the high priest. On his coins were inscribed: "Sol Invicto comiti" which means, commited to the invincible sun. This new blend of the two faiths, he officially proclaimed as Christianity. Christianity spread all over the Roman Empire and Eastern Europe by massive persecution and brought an end to a variety of religions that flourished there. [...]

Mithraism and Early Christianity

 

[Randy Kluth]

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth and falling away from the truth we are given in Gods Word. We have been warned that this would happen in the church, and it did happen.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I personally believe that in every historical State Church there were 2 types of people. One, there were people who experienced God and His revelation through obedience, receiving true fellowship with God.

And two, there were those who were only willing to commit in part to God's word because they did not wish to yield control of their lives completely to God, retaining control for themselves. As such, they did not yield up their Sin Nature to the power of God's word, and were left in their sins. They did not offer a Gospel of deliverance to the world, but only a vague idea of what that unity would look like.

The experience of God to these hybrid Christians was more like a "mystery," because it could never completely satisfy intellectual inquiry into divine revelation. Instead of experiencing God directly and regularly, a pseudo-faith was attached to rituals and ceremonies, like Communion. It was thought that the knowledge of God could be retained through routine displays of religion as opposed to a regular relationship with God, based on full submission to His word.

This is like Gnosticism, the earliest heresy affecting the Church. It attempted to retain God not by internal submission to God's word but by external attention to religious "mysteries" and imaginative scenarios. Yet the associated religious ceremonies could never hold anything more than religious ideas, and certainly not the true knowledge of God, which comes by submission and obedience to God's word.

The result has been Christian humanism, liberalism, and today's socialism. It is pursuit of a man-centered idea of world unity by attempting to imitate divine revelation.

The sinful inclinations of Man naturally pursue independent control, apart from God. The result is this man-centered philosophy that appears "religious," but is really a counterfeit form of Christianity.

It pursues world unity on a religious idea, as opposed to unity in God's Spirit. External displays of "love" and "unity" replace true unity based on Christ's spirituality. Diverse religious expressions are viewed as "one." All external religious display is viewed as secondary to the importance of "human spirituality and love." But it is a poor human imitation of God's love.

True love must come from God Himself and cannot be imitated. It must be fully submitted to in order to be applied by us in genuine form.

In the US and in Europe there is this pseudo-Christian belief that if democracies, which are religiously pluralistic, reach out to antichristian countries, including Islamic and Communist countries, it will be like the Christian ideal of "loving one's enemy." It is thought that in so doing it will win over hostile parties to a position of friendship by example.

But this is not really Christian, but is an attempt to bridge differences on the commonality of humanism, preaching independence from "religious dogma" and offering human reason as the basis for world unity. It will never fix the problem of human sin, and any such attempt at "unity" will fail.

Turning all religious beliefs into a political ideology that supports one dictator, the Antichrist, will not work in the world. It will only appear to work for a time in Europe. In the world it will utterly fail because sin-oriented nations will always pull apart from world unity for selfish interests. And unity based on submission to a corrupt, selfish Antichrist will be oppressive and burdensome for other countries to submit to.

Only in Christianity can selfishness be fully defeated, because it actually deals with the problem of our Sin Nature. Humanism, or operating independent of God, does not. A compromised, hybrid pseudo-religion can never defeat the inclination towards Sin and selfishness. It only follows an idea that retains human autonomy and separation from religion.

Submission to Christ internally on a regular basis is the only way for the individual and for society to retain God's true love and unity. But it will always have to be based on a full submission to Christ in order to overcome sinful tendencies.

Since the world will not submit to that fully, world unity can only come through divine judgment. It will certainly not come by a false Gospel that never fully overcomes the Sin Nature. All man-centered ideas about religion will fail. Only through God Himself can we succeed in our personal lives and in our societies.

 

[Hobie]

I personally believe that in every historical State Church there were 2 types of people. One, there were people who experienced God and His revelation through obedience, receiving true fellowship with God.

And two, there were those who were only willing to commit in part to God's word because they did not wish to yield control of their lives completely to God, retaining control for themselves. As such, they did not yield up their Sin Nature to the power of God's word, and were left in their sins. They did not offer a Gospel of deliverance to the world, but only a vague idea of what that unity would look like.

The experience of God to these hybrid Christians was more like a "mystery," because it could never completely satisfy intellectual inquiry into divine revelation. Instead of experiencing God directly and regularly, a pseudo-faith was attached to rituals and ceremonies, like Communion. It was thought that the knowledge of God could be retained through routine displays of religion as opposed to a regular relationship with God, based on full submission to His word....

The thing is, they were taking away the truth that Christ gave, and substituting the old pagan 'mysteries', plain and simple. On this history is very clear as until the fourth century, Mithra and Christianity were distinct but after Constantine, they were blended so that the empire could unite them under a religion for both pagans and Christians.

So we see at that time the cult of Mithraism or sun-worship was the official religion of the Roman Empire. It had its own organization, temples, priesthood, robes, everything. It also had an official worship day on which special homage was given to the sun. That day was called 'The Venerable Day of the Sun.' It was the first day of the week, and when Constantine combined the pagans into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day. In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples. At that time there was increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death. Those feelings would naturally condition many Christians to swing away from something which was held religiously by the Jews. It is therefore easier to understand how the change was imposed on Christianity through a strong civil law issued by Constantine as the Emperor of Rome. Those early Christians, feeling that the Jews should not be followed any more than necessary, were ready to swing away from the Sabbath which was kept by the Jews.

We find the following in church history...

Pagan Festivals and Church Policy
The Church made a sacred day of Sunday largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.
Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

Church decrees Sunday sacredness-

Council of Laodicea (343-381?)
[p. 310] Can. 16.'On Saturday [Greek sabbaton,';the Sabbath';] the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud.
[p. 316] Can. 29.'Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord;s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out [Greek anathema] from Christ.'
[p. 320] Can. 49.'During Lent, the bread shall not be offered, except on Saturday and Sunday.'
Can. 51.'During Lent, no feast of the martyrs shall be celebrated, but the holy martyrs shall be commemorated on the Saturdays and Sundays of Lent.'
Source: Charles Joseph Hefele, A History of the Christian Councils, Vol. 2, trans. and ed. by H. N. Oxenham (Edinburgh: T. and T. Clark, 1896), pp. 310, 316, 320.

Councils of the Church enforce Sunday observance.
[p. 105] The Council of Orleans (538), while protesting [p. 106] against an excessive Sabbatarianism, forbade all field work under pain of censure; and the Council of Macon (585) laid down that the Lords Day is the day of perpetual rest, which is suggested to us by the type of the seventh day in the law and the prophets, and ordered a complete cessation of all kinds of business. How far the movement had gone by the end of the 6th cent. is shown by a letter of Gregory the Great (pope 590-604) protesting against the prohibition of baths on Sunday.
Source: M. G. Glazebrook, Sunday, in James Hastings, ed., Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (New York: Scribner, 1928), Vol. 12, pp. 105, 106.

If as many suppose, Christians as a whole observed Sunday in place of the "Jewish" Sabbath from resurrection Sunday forward, then why was it necessary for the church to enact ecclesiastical laws to enforce Sunday worship as a day of rest? Simply put, the issue to the Catholic Church has always been one of authority, authority to declare binding holy festival days. It is a mark of their authority to institute such days, even appropriating previously pagan days and declaring them obligatory, and that one commits a sin if you do not attend services on those days. The Bible is quite silent on Sunday sacredness, so the "Bible Only" Protestants contradict themselves by observing it as a replacement for the Sabbath.

"Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of that day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321 A.D."--"Chamber's Encyclopedia," article, "Sabbath."

Here is the first Sunday Law in history, a legal enactment by Constantine 1 (reigned 306-331): "On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost--Given the 7th day of March,[A.D. 321], Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time."--The First Sunday Law of Constantine 1, in "Codex Justinianus," lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Phillip Schaff "History of the Christian Church," Vol. 3, p. 380.

"This [Constantine's Sunday decree of March, 321] is the 'parent' Sunday law making it a day of rest and release from labor. For from that time to the present there have been decrees about the observance of Sunday which have profoundly influenced European and American society. When the Church became a part of State under the Christian emperors, Sunday observance was enforced by civil statutes, and later when the Empire was past, the Church, in the hands of the papacy, enforced it by ecclesiastical and also by civil enactments."--Walter W. Hyde, "Paganism to Christianity in the Roman Empire," 1946, p. 261.
"Constantine's decree marked the beginning of a long, though intermittent series of imperial decrees in support of Sunday rest."-- Vincent J. Kelly, "Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations," 1943, p. 29.

"Constantine labored at this time untiringly to unite the worshipers of the old and the new into one religion. All his laws and contrivances are aimed at promoting this amalgamation of religions. He would by all lawful and peaceable means melt together a purified heathenism and a moderated Christianity ... Of all his blending and melting together of Christianity and heathenism, none is more easy to see through than this making of his Sunday law: The Christians worshiped their Christ, the heathen their Sun-god ...[so they should now be combined."--H.G. Heggtveit, "illustreret Kirkehistorie," 1895, p. 202.

"If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be regarded in execration [cursing] of the Jews."--Pope Sylvester, quoted by S.R.E. Humbert, "Adversus Graecorum Calumnias," in J.P. Migne, "Patrologie," p. 143.[Sylvester (A.D. 314-337) was the pope at the time Constantine 1 was Emperor.]

"All things whatsoever that were prescribed for the [bible] Sabbath, we have transferred them to the Lord's day, as being more authoritative and more highly regarded and first in rank, and more honorable than the Jewish Sabbath."--Bishop Eusebius, quoted in J.P. Migne, "Patrologie," p. 23, 1169-1172.[Eusebius of Caesarea was a high-ranking Catholic leader during Constantine's lifetime.]

These Gentile Christians of Rome and Alexandria began calling the first day of the week 'the Lord's day.' This was not difficult for the pagans of the Roman Empire who were steeped in sun worship to accept, because they [the pagans] referred to their sun-god as their 'Lord.' "--EM. Chalmers, "How Sunday Came Into the Christian Church," p. 3.

 

[Hobie]

Its just incredible what they did and allowed apostasy in the church, just to get pagan 'converts' to join the Christians, but it wasnt the pagans that got converted.

Early Church Fathers on Mithraism

Mithraism was so popular in the Roman Empire and so similar in important aspects to Christianity that several Church fathers were compelled to address it, disparagingly of course. These fathers included Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Julius Firmicus Maternus and Augustine, all of whom attributed these striking correspondences to the prescient devil. In other words, anticipating Christ, the devil set about to fool the Pagans by imitating the coming messiah. In reality, the testimony of these Church fathers confirms that these various motifs, characteristics, traditions and myths predated Christianity.

Concerning this "devil did it" argument, in The Worship of Nature Sir James G. Frazer remarks:

If the Mithraic mysteries were indeed a Satanic copy of a divine original, we are driven to conclude that Christianity took a leaf out of the devil's book when it fixed the birth of the Saviour on the twenty-fifth of December; for there can be no doubt that the day in question was celebrated as the birthday of the Sun by the heathen before the Church, by an afterthought, arbitrarily transferred the Nativity of its Founder from the sixth of January to the twenty-fifth of December.

In response to a question about Tertullian's discussion of the purported Mithraic forehead mark, Dr. Richard Gordon says:

In general, in studying Mithras, and the other Greco-oriental mystery cults, it is good practice to steer clear of all information provided by Christian writers: they are not "sources," they are violent apologists, and one does best not to believe a word they say, however tempting it is to supplement our ignorance with such stuff. (Gordon, "FAQ")....It is obvious from the remarks of the Church fathers and from the literary and archaeological record that Mithraism in some form preceded Christianity by centuries. The fact is that there is no Christian archaeological evidence earlier than the earliest Roman Mithraic archaeological evidence and that the preponderance of evidence points to Christianity being formulated during the second century, not based on a "historical" personage of the early first century. As one important example, the canonical gospels as we have them do not show up clearly in the literary record until the end of the second century.

Mithra's pre-Christian roots are attested in the Vedic and Avestan texts, as well as by historians such as Herodotus (1.131) and Xenophon (Cyrop. viii. 5, 53 and c. iv. 24), among others. Nor is it likely that the Roman Mithras is not essentially the same as the Indian sun god Mitra and the Persian, Armenian and Phrygian Mithra in his major attributes, as well as some of his most pertinent rites.

Moreover, it is erroneously asserted that because Mithraism was a "mystery cult" it did not leave any written record. In reality, much evidence of Mithra worship has been destroyed, including not only monuments, iconography and other artifacts, but also numerous books by ancient authors. The existence of written evidence is indicated by the Egyptian cloth "manuscript" from the first century BCE called, "Mummy Funerary Inscription of the Priest of Mithras, Ornouphios, Son fo Artemis" or MS 247.

"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first."...Nevertheless, the god Mithra was revered for centuries prior to the Christian era, and the germane elements of Mithraism are known to have preceded Christianity by hundreds to thousands of years. Thus, regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first, well established in the West decades before Christianity had any significant influence...."

Mithra the Pagan Christ | Mithraism and Christianity | Mithras the Sun God

 

[Jack]

Well, we have thousands of 'Christian' churches that have drastically different beliefs. Satan has been busy preaching!

2 Corinthians 11
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Davy]

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth and falling away from the truth we are given in Gods Word. We have been warned that this would happen in the church, and it did happen.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

....

NO! That apostasy event has NOT happened yet today. It is ONLY for the time of the future "great tribulation" at the 'end' of this world.

That 2 Thess.2:4 verse about that "man of sin" is the SAME warning Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse about the coming pseudo-Christ that others will worship in place of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:23-26, which is about a 'singular' false-Messiah, and will claim to be of Judah). Those in Christ are not to fall into that trap at the end; it is specifically a trap God is going to use upon the unbelieving Jews, and for pruning of dead branches in Christ's Church.

Brethren in Christ, that 2 Thess.2 "man of sin" event will specifically happen when the following happens...

Matt 24:15-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
KJV

That "abomination of desolation" event is about the coming pseudo-Christ placing an IDOL abomination inside the future 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, in false worship. That is what the Rev.13 "image of the beast" is about for the 'end'. Rev.13 warns us that coming false one, there called the "another beast", will setup that "image of the beast" in worship, and those who refuse to bow to it are to be killed.

Those events above are what Paul was pointing to regarding that "man of sin" causing that 2 Thess.2:3 "falling away" (apostasy). It's about the coming pseudo-Christ being setup in false worship. That is what Paul's idea of the "strong delusion" is about.

That is still yet to happen today. So don't listen to preachers who try to use their failing Church member attendance rolls as a measure for that 2 Thess.2:3-4 apostasy.

Many in Christ today have started studying their Bible more, and doing 'house Churches', because they are starting to figure out how lot of Church system organizations have overtaken many written Bible doctrines in favor of their seminary traditions of men, just like what the blind Pharisees were doing in the days of Lord Jesus' 1st coming.

And you preachers out there that are complaining about lower Church attendance, quit pushing men's traditions, and instead teach The Word of God line upon line, chapter by chapter instead of your own word, and you will see your Church's attendance start to increase. And if it doesn't increase, at least the brethren that do attend and stay because they are hungry for a line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible teaching, then those will be the ones that are supposed... to be there. "Cease ye from man", God said (Isaiah 2:22).

 

[Jack]

NO! That apostasy event has NOT happened yet today. It is ONLY for the time of the future "great tribulation" at the 'end' of this world.

Then why do we have thousands of 'Christian' churches in America that believe DRASTICALLY different? Satan has been busy deceiving!

2 Corinthians 11
Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Davy]

Then why do we have thousands of 'Christian' churches in America that believe DRASTICALLY different? Satan has been busy deceiving!

Yes, but that still does not mean we can just take Paul's apostasy idea out of its context in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Doing that is what causes what you speak of.

What's the subject of those 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 verses? Stay with the flow, don't be tempted to just pull out a single verse and apply it how you want...

2 Thess 2:1-4
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul's subject he starts off with is about the 'timing' of Lord Jesus' future return, and... His gathering of His Church.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Regarding that verse 1 subject, Paul tells the brethren there to not be deceived with false doctrines, "as from us" about that "day of Christ". Paul is continuing the context about the 'day' of Jesus' return, and gathering of the Church. Some 'false brethren' brought in unawares apparently were distorting the 'timing' of Christ's future return, and our gathering to Jesus, even to writing fake letters, "as from us" (passing them off as if they were written by the Apostles). Here, Paul was reminding them of what he taught them about this matter before (see 2 Thess.2:5).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Paul is still covering the subject of verse 1 about the 'day' of Christ's future return, and gathering of the Church. He reminds... them, that "falling away" (apostasy) AND "man of sin" must come first before that "day of Christ".

That "day of Christ" Paul mentions is the "day of the Lord" of Isaiah 2:12.

Thus Apostle Paul did not link that "falling away" simply with not attending Church anymore, or not believing on Jesus anymore. Paul linked with the event when the false-Messiah-Antichrist shows up in Jerusalem at the end, during the time of "great tribulation". We are not there yet in Bible prophecy today.

And some of the greatest violators of pushing that 'apostasy' to today's time, or anytime in the past, are those who also try... to push many Bible prophesies for the end back in history.

2 Corinthians 11
Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

Apostle Paul was actually giving a specific revelation about the 'end' of this world with that 2 Corinthians 11 example.

There in 2 Cor.11, Paul warned us of the "another Jesus" that others wrongly preach. And Apostle Paul linked the idea of 'apostasy' with following that "another Jesus" instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming. The way Paul did that especially was using the Old Testament metaphor about " ... Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare..." which Lord Jesus quoted to the weeping 'daughters of Jerusalem' when He was on His way to be crucified (Luke 23:27-30; Isaiah 54). It's about the idea of 'woe to those with child' false worship metaphor. That's why Paul used the idea of wanting to present us to Christ "as a chaste virgin". Lord Jesus used this metaphor in several places also, especially with the ten virgin analogy in Matthew 25. It is meant in the 'spiritual worship' sense, not literal 'with child' sense.

 

[Davy]

Then why do we have thousands of 'Christian' churches in America that believe DRASTICALLY different? Satan has been busy deceiving!

2 Corinthians 11
Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

Also, it's important to understand that Hobie who started this thread about the "falling away" of 2 Thess.2, is following men's seminary tradition called Preterism.

Men's doctrine of Preterism tries to push many Bible prophecies meant for the very end of this world to back in history. Many of these claimed reformers today simply carry the torch of what the old Protestant Reformers believed in 16th century Europe, that the pope is The Antichrist. Those Reformers made up many of those who first separated from the Catholic Church, like Martin Luther. And because of that the Catholics called their rebellion a 'protest', and thus the origin of the name Protestant.

Those Protestant Reformers though, also thought their day was the 'end' of the world per end time Bible prophecy, because of their being persecuted by the Catholic Church and the pope. Obviously, they were wrong about that point, because here we still are today, and Lord Jesus has still yet to return.

It is those on that Preterist doctrine of men that often push the idea that Paul's "falling away" started back in the past, or is already here today, when it is not, simply because it requires the "man of sin" being revealed first. And there's one of their 'rubs' also, because they push that very idea that the pope is that "man of sin", and has thus they think the "man of sin" has already been 'revealed'. But they are very wrong, and are simply latching onto a doctrine of men that 16th century Protestants started.

(And by the way, I am not a Catholic, nor a Jew; I am a Protestant, just not a Preterist, nor a Historicist, nor a Futurist).

 

[Davy]

So WHY... brethren can a Catholic pope NOT be Apostle Paul's revealed "man of sin" of 2 Thessalonians 2?

Hippolytus of Rome who lived circa 170 - 235 A.D., wrote about the coming of the Antichrist, and even defined Biblical requirements the coming Antichrist must fit. And Hippolytus gave this prior... to the office of a pope which first began in the 3rd century A.D., originally called a "bishop of bishops" (see 1611 KJV translator's Letter to King James, and To The Reader).


From Treatise On Christ and Antichrist by Hippolytus of Rome:

"5. But as time now presses for the consideration of the question immediately in hand, and as what has been already said in the introduction with regard to the glory of God, may suffice, it is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that implores one shall be revealed; and whence and from what I tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in the Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed froth heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire.

6. Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand."
(from Hippolytus of Rome: Treatise on Christ and Antichrist (Roberts-Donaldson translation))

Note that Hippolytus well understood the Bible Scripture about the features of the coming Antichrist at the end of this world:

1. Antichrist will come as a mimic of our Lord Jesus Christ, The Lion of the tribe of Judah, born of Judah.

2. Antichrist will be exalted as a 'king', as Jesus Christ is our True KING.

3. Antichrist will manifest as a lamb like Lord Jesus Christ. (note Rev.13:11-13)

4. Antichrist will come among those of the 'circumcision' (Jews). This immediately destroys any... idea that it can be a Christian pope. (see the Dan.11 prophecy about the "vile person", which points to his origin will be from the Jews in Jerusalem).

5. Hippolytus compares Paul's "another Jesus" 2 Cor.11 Scripture with the coming Antichrist, which Paul actually linked to the coming of Satan disguised an 'angel of light'. That is where Hippolytus is pulling from about Antichrist sending 'false apostles'.

6. Hippolytus points to the Antichrist gathering a people like Jesus will do with gathering His sheep. (a false Pre-trib Rapture by the Antichrist?).

7. Antichrist will promote a 'seal' ("mark of the beast").

8. Antichrist will come in the form of a man, like Lord Jesus came in the form of a man. (I believe the Antichrist will be Satan himself, but not flesh born, but indeed will appear with the image of man, because God created Satan with that image of man, as He did all the angels).

9. Hippolytus well understood Bible Scripture that the Antichrist will raise up a STONE temple in Jerusalem in false worship at the end, pointing to Apostle Paul's "temple of God" that "man of sin" is to come and sit in, playing God. (Orthodox Jews of course do not like for us to preach this idea, yet it is Bible Scripture, and even Hippolytus agreed the Scripture about the Antichrist involves that stone temple in Jerusalem that Paul mentioned for the end.)

 

[Jack]

Yes, but that still does not mean we can just take Paul's apostasy idea out of its context in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Doing that is what causes what you speak of.

What's the subject of those 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 verses? Stay with the flow, don't be tempted to just pull out a single verse and apply it how you want...

2 Thess 2:1-4
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul's subject he starts off with is about the 'timing' of Lord Jesus' future return, and... His gathering of His Church.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Regarding that verse 1 subject, Paul tells the brethren there to not be deceived with false doctrines, "as from us" about that "day of Christ". Paul is continuing the context about the 'day' of Jesus' return, and gathering of the Church. Some 'false brethren' brought in unawares apparently were distorting the 'timing' of Christ's future return, and our gathering to Jesus, even to writing fake letters, "as from us" (passing them off as if they were written by the Apostles). Here, Paul was reminding them of what he taught them about this matter before (see 2 Thess.2:5).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Paul is still covering the subject of verse 1 about the 'day' of Christ's future return, and gathering of the Church. He reminds... them, that "falling away" (apostasy) AND "man of sin" must come first before that "day of Christ".

That "day of Christ" Paul mentions is the "day of the Lord" of Isaiah 2:12.

Thus Apostle Paul did not link that "falling away" simply with not attending Church anymore, or not believing on Jesus anymore. Paul linked with the event when the false-Messiah-Antichrist shows up in Jerusalem at the end, during the time of "great tribulation". We are not there yet in Bible prophecy today.

And some of the greatest violators of pushing that 'apostasy' to today's time, or anytime in the past, are those who also try... to push many Bible prophesies for the end back in history.



Apostle Paul was actually giving a specific revelation about the 'end' of this world with that 2 Corinthians 11 example.

There in 2 Cor.11, Paul warned us of the "another Jesus" that others wrongly preach. And Apostle Paul linked the idea of 'apostasy' with following that "another Jesus" instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming. The way Paul did that especially was using the Old Testament metaphor about " ... Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare..." which Lord Jesus quoted to the weeping 'daughters of Jerusalem' when He was on His way to be crucified (Luke 23:27-30; Isaiah 54). It's about the idea of 'woe to those with child' false worship metaphor. That's why Paul used the idea of wanting to present us to Christ "as a chaste virgin". Lord Jesus used this metaphor in several places also, especially with the ten virgin analogy in Matthew 25. It is meant in the 'spiritual worship' sense, not literal 'with child' sense.

Israel is back. The Apostasy is here. World Gov is coming. Mark of the Beast is staring at you. LGBTQ is stalking you. Pay attention.

 

[Davy]

Israel is back. The Apostasy is here. World Gov is coming. Mark of the Beast is staring at you. LGBTQ is stalking you. Pay attention.

Those things are not what Apostle Paul's "falling away" is about. To push what you are saying as being the 'falling away' is to separate... the 2 Thessalonians 2:3 verse apart from the 4th verse, which I see Preterists wrongly doing all the time.

And by the way, I knew about the globalist plans for a "one world government" since the early 1970's, as it has been spoken of by globalists for over a century in their writings and speeches. U.S. President Woodrow Wilson's right-hand man at the White House, Col. Mandell House, even wrote a short novel after his globalist plans with Wilson failed to get through U.S. Congress with their attempt to get the U.S. on board with the League of Nations. (see the book Philip Drew: Administrator: A Story of Tommorow, 1925-1935).

You might also research 1940s-1950s ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist, where he listed 45 strategic points the Soviet Communists planned to use against the West. The LGBTQ movement was just one of them.

Thus I am amazed at how many of my Christian brethren are just now it seems, in just past couple of decades, have only STARTED to begin to WAKE UP, when folks like me have been paying attention for most our lives. Thus your telling ME to "pay attention" reveals how you are just now waking up to what's been going on for centuries. I can take these things what you claim is the 'falling away' back to at least 22 centuries, because it's about the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul mentioned, which goes back Biblical to Old Testament times! So it sounds like you're the one that needs to "pay attention" more.

 

[Jack]

Those things are not what Apostle Paul's "falling away" is about. To push what you are saying as being the 'falling away' is to separate... the 2 Thessalonians 2:3 verse apart from the 4th verse, which I see Preterists wrongly doing all the time.

And by the way, I knew about the globalist plans for a "one world government" since the early 1970's, as it has been spoken of by globalists for over a century in their writings and speeches. U.S. President Woodrow Wilson's right-hand man at the White House, Col. Mandell House, even wrote a short novel after his globalist plans with Wilson failed to get through U.S. Congress with their attempt to get the U.S. on board with the League of Nations. (see the book Philip Drew: Administrator: A Story of Tommorow, 1925-1935).

You might also research 1940s-1950s ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist, where he listed 45 strategic points the Soviet Communists planned to use against the West. The LGBTQ movement was just one of them.

Thus I am amazed at how many of my Christian brethren are just now it seems, in just past couple of decades, have only STARTED to begin to WAKE UP, when folks like me have been paying attention for most our lives. Thus your telling ME to "pay attention" reveals how you are just now waking up to what's been going on for centuries. I can take these things what you claim is the 'falling away' back to at least 22 centuries, because it's about the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul mentioned, which goes back Biblical to Old Testament times! So it sounds like you're the one that needs to "pay attention" more.

If they woke up, why are there still thousands of 'Christian' churches with drastically different beliefs? God is going to clean His House and it won't be pretty! He doesn't take kindly to butchering His written Word, the Bible.

1 Peter 4
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God;

America is on 'death's door' for good reason!

 

[Davy]

If they woke up, why are there still thousands of 'Christian' churches with drastically different beliefs? God is going to clean His House and it won't be pretty! He doesn't take kindly to butchering His written Word, the Bible.

1 Peter 4
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God;

America is on 'death's door' for good reason!

I already answered your question, now go study your Bible more, because I actually made the mistake of giving you more "strong meat" than you apparently are able to handle.

 

[Jack]

I already answered your question, now go study your Bible more, because I actually made the mistake of giving you more "strong meat" than you apparently are able to handle.

Well I'm far from being a Preterist. And 'Christianity' is far from being Christianity in America no matter how much you toot your own horn.

 

[Hobie]

Then why do we have thousands of 'Christian' churches in America that believe DRASTICALLY different? Satan has been busy deceiving!

2 Corinthians 11
Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

Yes, and the devil has a lot of help...

Revelation 16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.