Born again... vs....not born again.

[mailmandan]

gpresdo said:
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

These Gentiles had already believed in Him, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and also received the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) BEFORE receiving water baptism.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:36 - Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 8:38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

In regard to Acts 19:2, their answer to Paul's question, “we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit” demonstrated that they did not yet believe on Christ Jesus unto salvation. Paul further asked, "into what then were you baptized? They said, “into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

When they heard this, they were afterwards baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There would have been no need to re-baptize them if they had already believed on Christ Jesus unto salvation. These disciples of John needed further instructions to become believers on Christ Jesus then afterwards, they received the Holy Spirit after Paul laid hands on them (which is the exception, not the rule in every case of conversion, as in Acts 2 and Acts 10).

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Nothing there about water baptism being absolutely necessary for salvation.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

Billy Graham was a Southern Baptist minister. I'm not buying your sales pitch or your eisegesis.

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized. His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

More faulty human logic and eisegesis on your part. Properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine is not taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy in Revelation.

 

[gpresdo]

You don't believe in repentance then.

None of that detracts from God's command.
Sad.

 

[Behold]

I would not want to be part of calling .....God's word...a "water cult"...

Which one are you in?

Here are two Choices.

"The Cult of Mary" which is the Catholic Church, and the Jehovah's Witness.

Both of these water cults teach that water is the mediator, the SALVATiON, that God has provided, and all you have to to get your sins taken care of, is be water baptized.

A.) Thousand of water baptized people died and went to hell today, and now they are wondering "why"?

And the WHY is because WATER can't save you.
Water can't wash away your sin.

Jesus said "you MUST BE BORN.....AGAIN" "From ABOVE"... not down here in a pool filled with the city water supply.

 

[gpresdo]

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.


These Gentiles had already believed in Him, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and also received the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) BEFORE receiving water baptism.


Acts 8:36 - Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 8:38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.


In regard to Acts 19:2, their answer to Paul's question, “we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit” demonstrated that they did not yet believe on Christ Jesus unto salvation. Paul further asked, "into what then were you baptized? They said, “into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

When they heard this, they were afterwards baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There would have been no need to re-baptize them if they had already believed on Christ Jesus unto salvation. These disciples of John needed further instructions to become believers on Christ Jesus then afterwards, they received the Holy Spirit after Paul laid hands on them (which is the exception, not the rule in every case of conversion, as in Acts 2 and Acts 10).


Nothing there about water baptism being absolutely necessary for salvation.


Billy Graham was a Southern Baptist minister. I'm not buying your sales pitch or your eisegesis.


More faulty human logic and eisegesis on your part. Properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine is not taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy in Revelation.

Please stop trying to demean me...it wont work,
Address God's word for once.

Which one are you in?

Here are two Choices.

"The Cult of Mary" which is the Catholic Church, and the Jehovah's Witness.

Both of these water cults teach that water is the mediator, the SALVATiON, that God has provided, and all you have to to get your sins taken care of, is be water baptized.

A.) Thousand of water baptized people died and went to hell today, and now they are wondering "why"?

And the WHY is because WATER can't save you.
Water can't wash away your sin.

Jesus said "you MUST BE BORN.....AGAIN" "From ABOVE"... not down here in a pool filled with the city water supply.

You can read what the Bible says....and it does not say that.

 

[mailmandan]

Please stop trying to demean me...it wont work,
Address God's word for once.

Who is trying to demean who? Pot calling the kettle black. I already have addressed God's word in post #8, #20 and #21.

 

[gpresdo]

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.


These Gentiles had already believed in Him, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and also received the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) BEFORE receiving water baptism.


Acts 8:36 - Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 8:38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.


In regard to Acts 19:2, their answer to Paul's question, “we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit” demonstrated that they did not yet believe on Christ Jesus unto salvation. Paul further asked, "into what then were you baptized? They said, “into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

When they heard this, they were afterwards baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There would have been no need to re-baptize them if they had already believed on Christ Jesus unto salvation. These disciples of John needed further instructions to become believers on Christ Jesus then afterwards, they received the Holy Spirit after Paul laid hands on them (which is the exception, not the rule in every case of conversion, as in Acts 2 and Acts 10).


Nothing there about water baptism being absolutely necessary for salvation.


Billy Graham was a Southern Baptist minister. I'm not buying your sales pitch or your eisegesis.


More faulty human logic and eisegesis on your part. Properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine is not taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy in Revelation.

Why didn't you address;

Acts 2;38?...repent and be baptized.

or

Peter 3;21...whereunto even baptism doeth also save us....

or

others?

Why do you find it self aggrandizing to be wrong with the Bible?
That is seen often with you. Find other topics to feed your ego...not God's word.

 

[mailmandan]

Why didn't you address;

Acts 2;38?...repent and be baptized.

or

Peter 3;21...whereunto even baptism doeth also save us....

or

others?

Why do you find it self aggrandizing to be wrong with God's word?
That is seen often with you.

Say what? Did you not read post #20? I thoroughly addressed Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 in that post, along with others. Now who is trying to demean who? Your true colors are becoming more and more obvious.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Born again vs not born again

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

If we look to the story of the serpent. we see that those who trusted God and looked up lived.

those who did not died.

That is the difference. those who look to Christ in faith are born again

those who do not are not born again.

its all about the cross.. Do you trust the cross. Or do you not trust the cross.

if you do not you will continue to deny the cross. or try to save yourself. like those poor jews who continued to reject Gods provision and tried to do it on their own.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Say what? Did you not read post #20? I thoroughly addressed Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 in that post, along with others. Now who is trying to demean who? Your true colors are becoming more and more obvious.

these people who refuse to study the word.. and act like they know what everyone else does not

 

[gpresdo]

these people who refuse to study the word.. and act like they know what everyone else does not

The Bible speaks for itself.
Address that...Don't attack the messenger.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

When a man needs to write a loooong post and use many words to steer you away from what the scriptures say, RUN AWAY!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Bible speaks for itself. Address that...Don't attack the messenger.

I agree

but some people do not study the bible. and make it say things it does not say. which in turns causes the bible to contradict itself.

The messenger who does that needs to be warned.. so he can repent

 

[mailmandan]

I agree

but some people do not study the bible. and make it say things it does not say. which in turns causes the bible to contradict itself.

The messenger who does that needs to be warned.. so he can repent

Instead of properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine, some people instead prefer to interpret these texts in such a way as to introduce their own presuppositions, agendas or biases, which is called eisegesis.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

some people do not study the bible

The scriptures never tell us to “study” them.

We are commanded to hear, read, and OBEY them!

“Stand in the gate of the LORD'S house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD…” (Jeremiah 7:2)

“Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.” (Ezekiel 3:17)

“Hear the word of the LORD…” (Hosea 4:1)

“And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,” (Luke 5:1)

“…Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him…” (Matthew 12:3)

“And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.” (Colossians 4:16)

Heretics “study” the Bible.

Obedient Christians read, hear, and obey!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Born again vs not born again

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

If we look to the story of the serpent. we see that those who trusted God and looked up lived.

those who did not died.

That is the difference. those who look to Christ in faith are born again

those who do not are not born again.

its all about the cross.. Do you trust the cross. Or do you not trust the cross.

if you do not you will continue to deny the cross. or try to save yourself. like those poor jews who continued to reject Gods provision and tried to do it on their own.

Look at the passage.

Numbers 21: 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

It does not say they looked at it and did works. It does nto say they looked at it and God baptized. It does not say they looked at it and obeyed some commands.

It says they looked at it and they lived period.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Instead of properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine, some people instead prefer to interpret these texts in such a way as to introduce their own presuppositions, agendas or biases, which is called eisegesis.

I think they look up verses which support their belief. then happily use those verses to say they got us..

 

[mailmandan]

I think they look up verses which support their belief. then happily use those verses to say they got us..

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Jesus described Himself as the "Living Water". and He gives us this same.
The word of God's cleansing power is described as "the washing of regeneration". "the washing of water by the word".

Now, here is how a "water cult" denomination sees "water", as they look at it with their carnal mind and unregenerate spirit.

= "Noah was "saved by water": 1 Peter 3:20-21.


Look at that.....

"well behold, it says that the water saved noah, so, that is "baptism now also saves US". """Its WATER WATER WATER, that washes away our sin, exactly as the "cult of mary" told us in the dark ages they created and the Pope will tell us tomorrow....Praise God, im washed in the saving city water supply"..

= "doctrines of Devils".

So, lets look at "water saved Noah" through the lens of "rightly dividing the word', according to "spiritual discernment" that is "study to show yourself approved unto GOD".

Ask yourself......

"what happens to NOAH and Family, and all the animals = if they get out of the ark, and into the water. ???


A.) THEY ALL DIE

So, is that "water saving noah" as Peter wrote, and 2 Billion water cult sheep believe, literally?


Listen Reader..

The ArK that kept NOAH out of the WATER of God's JUDGMENT, is what Saved Noah, family, and turtles and cats.

So, what is that ARK to US, in the NT ?

Its symbolic of the CROSS of CHRIST = that is our SALVATION from God's righteous Judgement against SIN.

WE are saved from THIS....

JOHN 3:36

WE, the born again are safely in the ARK of God's Salvation, that is the : CROSS OF CHRIST, that is the Blood Atonement, that is the New Covenant, that is "Grace through Faith"... "the GIFT of Salvation".

There is the NT "ARK". for the BELIEVER in Yeshua.

Thank you for making this so understandable.

 

[Behold]

Are you a born again sinner?

No, im a born again CHRISTian.

What is that?

A "Son/Daughter" of God, "made righteous".

A "Heir of God"

A "Joint Heir with Jesus"

A "Temple of the Holy Spirit"

A "redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb"

"Having Eternal Life",

"In Christ", as "One with God"....

"Seated in Heavenly Places".

 

[Behold]

What does it mean to be born again?

It means that the spirit inside your body, that formally was separated from God's Holy Spirit by sin, has now been Re-Joined to God by "spiritual Birth"

This means that the Holy Spirit of God, has birthed your spirit into God.... who is "A Spirit".

= Born......again......"spiritually"... having become a "new Creation (Spiritual Birth) in Christ"...

And that has nothing to do with water baptism.