Born again... vs....not born again.

[Behold]

-

Here is a verse from John

“""""""Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin… In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil…"""""""



Now.....Notice that the verse is defining the born again as "does not commit sin", and the sinner is the child of the devil.

What does that mean?

It means that the born again, is the born again Spirit, and that is the "one who does not sin"., as the born again Spirit is "one with God" "In Christ".

• That is not the mind or the body.... this is not your thinking. Its not your mind..., and you have to get that, you have to see that, reader., as its the born again SPIRIT, that is the "child of God" and the "new Creation in Christ". "Made righteous".

The Born again, are joined to God, and "God is A Spirit".

See that?

Whereas the unbeliever, is not the born again spirit, they are the dead spirit, still separated from God, in the dying body, that has their sin.
They are IN sin, have sin, and are sinners.

The born again are not any of this...ever again, having been BORN AGAIN.

 

[Behold]

Only The born again go to Heaven.
Only the Born again have Salvation.
Only the Born again, have become a "Son/Daughter" of God
Only The Born again, have been forgiven all sin forever.
Only the Born again, are 'In Christ".
Only the Born again, are "one with God".


Jesus said..."you must be Born again", and water can't do that for you, as its "By my Spirit, sayeth' the Lord" that you are born again.

 

[gpresdo]

Only The born again go to Heaven.
Only the Born again have Salvation.
Only the Born again, have become a "Son/Daughter" of God
Only The Born again, have been forgiven all sin forever.
Only the Born again, are 'In Christ".
Only the Born again, are "one with God".


Jesus said..."you must be Born again", and water can't do that for you, as its "By my Spirit, sayeth' the Lord" that you are born again.

If you mean by water....water baptism....then you are not true to God's word.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

1 John 3:6, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him"

"does not sin", is in the Greek, "ouch hamartanei", which is in the present tense, literally, "does not keep on sinning", or, "does not practice sin", as "a way of life". It does NOT mean, "is sinless", which is impossible as we all still have a sinful nature even after being "born again"!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 3:6, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him"

"does not sin", is in the Greek, "ouch hamartanei", which is in the present tense, literally, "does not keep on sinning", or, "does not practice sin", as "a way of life". It does NOT mean, "is sinless", which is impossible as we all still have a sinful nature even after being "born again"!

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT

1 John 3:4-5 Jesus writes on our hearts the laws of God and takes away our desire to break a law of God. Verse four is the contextual sin - LAWLESSNESS. We cannot commit lawlessness even once. There is no such thing in a Christians life that I won't practice murder, but that doesn't mean I won't murder once in a while. Baloney! "Commit" is the correct translation.

John talks of two types of sin. 1 John 3 is the major sin of lawlessness, which are sins unto death, Numbers 15:30-36, but 1 John 5:16-17 shows another type of sin that we still need to overcome - sins NOT unto death.

John again shows that Jesus is also the author and finisher of all of our faith and obedience in the minor sins not unto death - immature fruit of the Spirit. John 15:1-4.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT

1 John 3:4-5 Jesus writes on our hearts the laws of God and takes away our desire to break a law of God. Verse four is the contextual sin - LAWLESSNESS. We cannot commit lawlessness even once. There is no such thing in a Christians life that I won't practice murder, but that doesn't mean I won't murder once in a while. Baloney! "Commit" is the correct translation.

John talks of two types of sin. 1 John 3 is the major sin of lawlessness, which are sins unto death, Numbers 15:30-36, but 1 John 5:16-17 shows another type of sin that we still need to overcome - sins NOT unto death.

John again shows that Jesus is also the author and finisher of all of our faith and obedience in the minor sins not unto death - immature fruit of the Spirit. John 15:1-4.

your reasoning is faulty!

John is writing about the fact that as a true believer in Jesus Christ, who is born again, and has the Holy Spirit living in you, that you should not live a live that is sinful.

the use of the present tense is purposeful, it is CONTINUE TO COMMIT SINS! "Commit", as a singular act is NOT what John writes here!

 

[Behold]

If you mean by water....water baptism....then you are not true to God's word.

Unless Water Baptism died on the Cross for the sin of the world, then its not able to offer Salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said..."you must be Born again", and water can't do that for you, as its "By my Spirit, sayeth' the Lord" that you are born again.

Amen! Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

The word "water" is also used in scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5) So for someone to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

[Behold]

Amen! Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

The word "water" is also used in scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5) So for someone to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Jesus described Himself as the "Living Water". and He gives us this same.
The word of God's cleansing power is described as "the washing of regeneration". "the washing of water by the word".

Now, here is how a "water cult" denomination sees "water", as they look at it with their carnal mind and unregenerate spirit.

= "Noah was "saved by water": 1 Peter 3:20-21.


Look at that.....

"well behold, it says that the water saved noah, so, that is "baptism now also saves US". """Its WATER WATER WATER, that washes away our sin, exactly as the "cult of mary" told us in the dark ages they created and the Pope will tell us tomorrow....Praise God, im washed in the saving city water supply"..

= "doctrines of Devils".

So, lets look at "water saved Noah" through the lens of "rightly dividing the word', according to "spiritual discernment" that is "study to show yourself approved unto GOD".

Ask yourself......

"what happens to NOAH and Family, and all the animals = if they get out of the ark, and into the water. ???


A.) THEY ALL DIE

So, is that "water saving noah" as Peter wrote, and 2 Billion water cult sheep believe, literally?


Listen Reader..

The ArK that kept NOAH out of the WATER of God's JUDGMENT, is what Saved Noah, family, and turtles and cats.

So, what is that ARK to US, in the NT ?

Its symbolic of the CROSS of CHRIST = that is our SALVATION from God's righteous Judgement against SIN.

WE are saved from THIS....

JOHN 3:36

WE, the born again are safely in the ARK of God's Salvation, that is the : CROSS OF CHRIST, that is the Blood Atonement, that is the New Covenant, that is "Grace through Faith"... "the GIFT of Salvation".

There is the NT "ARK". for the BELIEVER in Yeshua.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

When Jesus says in John 3:3f, "born again" as the versions translate the Greek, "γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν", the literal reading is "born from above", as in not an "earthly birth", or one that is "physical".

In Titus 3:5, the English word "Regeneration" is "παλιγγενεσίας", which is literally, "born anew", or "rebirth"

 

[Behold]

When Jesus says in John 3:3f, "born again" as the versions translate the Greek, "γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν", the literal reading is "born from above", as in not an "earthly birth", or one that is "physical".

In Titus 3:5, the English word "Regeneration" is "παλιγγενεσίας", which is literally, "born anew", or "rebirth"

To go to heaven, we have to have 2 "birth" days.

1.) earth birth, = born of water

2.) Heavenly Birth......"Born.... again"... by the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[JohnDB]

When Jesus says in John 3:3f, "born again" as the versions translate the Greek, "γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν", the literal reading is "born from above", as in not an "earthly birth", or one that is "physical".

In Titus 3:5, the English word "Regeneration" is "παλιγγενεσίας", which is literally, "born anew", or "rebirth"

Oh?
So you are one of those "born from above" people instead of a "born again" person?
Well....

So am I.
Because those who believe are known before we were born and given gifts to perform tasks.
IE: the functional use of every believer.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Oh?
So you are one of those "born from above" people instead of a "born again" person?
Well....

So am I.
Because those who believe are known before we were born and given gifts to perform tasks.
IE: the functional use of every believer.

I am actually both, "born from above" and "born again"

Even though the Greek in John 3 is literally "born from above", yet the sense of the passage, is clear that "born again" also suits the meaning

 

[JohnDB]

I am actually both, "born from above" and "born again"

Even though the Greek in John 3 is literally "born from above", yet the sense of the passage, is clear that "born again" also suits the meaning

No it doesn't.
I refer you to John 1:12.

And a bit of anthropology. Jews were big into legacy and genealogies. They named their children after heroes of the faith. Judas was named after Judas Maccabees who even has a book in the apocrypha writings. (Now removed from bibles due to inaccuracies)
So in order to categorize a certain group of the "heroes" of Israel the Jews labeled them as "Born from Above". The list includes many parameters and limits but the list includes such heroes as Samuel, Sampson, Isaac, Jacob and many others.

In John 1 the stage is set for parentage to be a major theme in the Gospel. Of course Jesus is born of God and John makes it clear that Jesus is indeed God Himself. But God's followers are also special in that they are "called out" from the normals.

Where a "new heart made of flesh" is a common enough reference that stems from repentance....it tends to feed the Calvinist line of warped and isolated scriptures to form their theologies. (John deals with this theology with the 'man born blind' story later)

But what also needs to be addressed is the translation. When Tyndale was credited with translation it really wasn't him. It was the monk Erasmus who translated much of the New Testament. Tyndale did the Old Testament and assembled it all together) And where he was brilliant in translating the scriptures he was not perfect by a long shot...especially because he was using the Latin Vulgate.
Then as things progressed forward most English translations paid homage to those who risked their lives by translating the scriptures by keeping some idiosyncrasies intact. This "born again" nonsense being one of them and Matthew 19 being another.
They believed such minor points were not essential. (They are, but that's another discussion)

John's Gospel account is focused on complicated theologies more than actions but these theologies are based on the words and actions of Jesus. So, to me, this is a key point about understanding who believers are. (And a prophesy fulfillment as well)

 

[gpresdo]

Unless Water Baptism died on the Cross for the sin of the world, then its not able to offer Salvation.

Suggest you study scriptures;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[gpresdo]

Amen! Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

The word "water" is also used in scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5) So for someone to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Unless Water Baptism died on the Cross for the sin of the world, then its not able to offer Salvation.

Wrong...see scriptures;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[Behold]

Suggest you study scriptures;

I suggest you run from a "water Cult" that teaches that the city water supply is the redemption of God.

"run" and never look back.

 

[Behold]

@gpresdo

You have nice cut and paste skill.
And as far as i can tell, thats all.
(see you there again, im sure.)



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...


1,) This is the spiritual baptism that is caused by the Holy Spirit, whereby the Spirit of God birth's the spirit of the believer into God, who is "A Spirit'.



John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


2,) Every person, inside their mother is in a fluid filled sac.
At birth, this fluid filled sac, "breaks" and the fluid and the BABY come out, = born of water.
(welcome to Earth).

To be born into the KOG, requires a 2nd Birth that is caused by the HOLY SPIRIT.



Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3.) Peter was not water baptized that day. Nor were the 120 in the upper room, yet they all "spoke with other tongues"...
That's interesting, isnt it?


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

4.) "Calling on the Name of the Lord," is where God brings redemption.

If you go and read Acts 8, you'll find exactly how this works..
Read the account of Philip and the Eunuch.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

5.) Christ is in Heaven.
So, to be Baptized into Christ, is based on the Holy Spirit who causes this "new Birth".
Water is not required, as all water can do is get you wet.


KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


6.) Notice that "shall be damned" does not use "water" in the explanation.
It only uses "BELIEVING", as if you dont BELIEVE you are DAMNED already.

John 3:36



KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

7.) Jesus didnt need to be born again, as He is God in the Flesh.
He had no "sin" to repent of, and was baptized because this was to "fulfill" in our place, what was required by the old covenant.
Hopefully, you at least understand that Jesus had no sin when he was baptized, so... HE had no need to be born again, or "saved"...which water can't cause, anyway.




KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

8.) Yet the verse does not say that this water baptism, is why they go to Heaven.

Also note.

Paul said..>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".




Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

9,) Notice that your verse says that he preached, and then they were baptized.
Why?
Because "faith comes by hearing" and they had to hear the message of Christ on the Cross and BELIEVE IT so that God could give them "the gift of Salvation", and then, they were allowed to be water baptized.
See Acts 8, for the update.


Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

10.) John baptized Jews, before the Cross of Christ was given.
So, if you are a Jew in the Old Testament, go and find John the Baptist, and you'll still not be born again after he gets you wet.



John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

11.) Jesus has not died on the Cross Yet, in your verses.

No Cross = No Salvation.



Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

11.) In this quote, Billy has mislead his listeners..
I suspect that a "water cult", online site, or lying commentary.... has rewritten His words, as BG knows that WBtism, can't save a housecat, much less a human.



.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.


12.) Paul said.. ."Christ sent me not to Water Baptize"..



Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

13.) This is symbolic...>He is explaining that the "old man of sin is dead" "Crucified with Christ", and that the "new man" "in Christ" is risen.
He is explaining this, using water baptism as the symbol.


Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

14.) Water baptism can't save you, unless it died on the Cross for your sin.
You seem to believe it did.


Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

15.) Satan wants to replace faith in Christ with anything else he can get you to believe that denies the Cross.
So, he would want you to not understand "spiritual birth", and instead be confused and think this means "get in the water".

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

16.) You are the person changing The Cross into "the city water supply is our savior".
So, you are the person in your verse.
The warning is for you and your water cult.
Believe it.

 

[gpresdo]

I suggest you run from a "water Cult" that teaches that the city water supply is the redemption of God.

"run" and never look back.

I would not want to be part of calling .....God's word...a "water cult"....I might advise.
...and I suggest you study scriptures. Plain language.

Unless you change to accepting God's clear word we can gain nothing from continuing this diatribe.
So I am finished.

God's word stands.

 

[mailmandan]

gpresdo said:

Baptism is Required

False. See Mark 16:16(b); John 3:16,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25;26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

Don't stop there. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

See post #8 above.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) *Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name and not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

So how does one "put on" Christ in baptism? Is it because one becomes a "child of God" through water baptism? NO. "Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:12,14) This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him.

So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well. (Romans 13:14) Right? NO. Let's be consistent. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

Baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5)

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