gay christians?

[Marymog]

Ummmm
Peter in Acts on the Day of Pentecost?

"Repent and be Baptised"

Hmmmm....So all I have to do is repent and be baptized and presto magico I have a personal relationship with God? I don't have to do anything else for the next 80 years that I am alive?

 

[marks]

but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Do you think the true church, led by the Spirit, will contradict the Holy Spirit's words? I don't. How do we know what is the true church? Won't it agree with the Bible? I think so.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe scripture....

I think I've just shown that's not true. You believe your church even when the Bible says differently. These things are plainly seen.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I did have thoughts on it. I responded. I think both of us are responding before the other has a chance to read our response...

Mary

Maybe, but I don't think I'm missing your POV on this. I only ask that you consider the precise words of the Bible, and believe what they say. Even if someone tells you it means something else. Know the Bible for yourself.

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

Do you think the true church, led by the Spirit, will contradict the Holy Spirit's words? I don't. How do we know what is the true church? Won't it agree with the Bible? I think so.

Much love!

I have found that Church. The One started by Christ that is built upon a rock. The Church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. The Church that decides who is to be treated as a publican or tax collector if they refuse to listen to that Church. The Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth that has elders that rule over it! (notice how all those things are in Scripture)

You haven't found The Church spoken of in Scripture.....I feel for ya' brother!

Mary

 

[JohnDB]

Hmmmm....So all I have to do is repent and be baptized and presto magico I have a personal relationship with God? I don't have to do anything else for the next 80 years that I am alive?

You act like repentance is so simple and easy....ROFL.

YEAH....

 

[Marymog]

Maybe, but I don't think I'm missing your POV on this. I only ask that you consider the precise words of the Bible, and believe what they say. Even if someone tells you it means something else. Know the Bible for yourself.

Much love!

I have considered it marks. Thank you. (sincerely)

Your POV on the matter is new to me. Since I DO know the bible for myself....I disagree with your POV.

But I also know that if I don't agree with your POV.....I really don't know the bible for myself. That means YOU will always be right and I will always be wrong.

 

[Behold]

The One started by Christ that is built upon a rock.

The "Cult of Mary" falsely teaches that Peter is the "first pope"..... and also the "rock that Christ will build his Church upon".

If you take 8 seconds and study the verse that the "cult of Mary" changes to fit their Peter worship..., you'll instantly realize that the "rock" that Jesus is referring to when talking to Peter is the "revelation that Jesus is the MESSIAH", that Peter had just spoken.

So, its upon THAT Rock... that REVELATION.... ..that the Church of God is founded upon...


or, as Paul the Apostle teaches :


KJ21
and all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that ROCK was Christ.

ASV
and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the ROCK was Christ.

AMP
and all [of them] drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the ROCK was Christ.

AMPC
And they all drank the same spiritual (supernaturally given) drink. For they drank from a spiritual Rock which followed them [produced by the sole power of God Himself without natural instrumentality], and the ROCK was Christ.

BRG
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that ROCK was Christ.
CSB
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and that ROCK was Christ

CEB
and all drank the same spiritual drink. They drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the ROCK was Christ

 

[Arthur81]

There is that saying by man. And then there is this saying from Scripture:

Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation." (Heb 13:7 KJV)

There is that serious criteria as to has the rule over the local assemblies of Christ.

That prior verse shows it is not all who "claim" to have the rule truly have God-given rule. Any Pastor is to be judged by the word of God. Peter Pett comments very well on Heb. 13:17 -

"However we must remember, especially in these days, that the leaders themselves have to be tested by their own behaviour. Jesus had said, "You know that those who are supposed to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you: but whoever would be great among you must be your servant" (Mar 10:42-43). He was thus pointing out that such leaders can be tested out, and should be so. He was pointing out that the test of the truly great man of God is found in his humility as expressed at all times towards all (not just in an acted out scenario to some) and especially towards the lowliest. Once a minister becomes too conscious of his own authority he loses the right to that authority. It is only to those who clearly live showing that they know they must give account, and who live in true humility, that submission can be expected. It is God-given only to them."

 

[Mr E]

Y'all have drifted pretty far afield of the topic at hand.... maybe consider spinning out some new threads?

-it matters not to me-- but this thread began as an exploration of the question of compatibility within the term-- 'gay christians' and from there it's taken many turns, including the Catholic church's recent turn toward inclusionary positions that support the idea.

How recent is this about-face? It took only about ten years for a complete u-turn.

Francis’ predecessor, the late Pope Benedict XVI, also said in 2014 transgender people would be the next challenge faced by the church, calling it the “ultimate rebellion against God the Creator,” and in his 2012 Christmas address said it is a “profound falsehood” that people can identify with a gender not assigned at birth.

Compare this with what the Vatican now says-- In a document approved by Pope Francis, the Vatican declared transgender Catholics can be baptized, become godparents and be witnesses at Catholic weddings. In response to Dubia-- doubts people have about the church's positions-- the Pope pronounced the Church's continued progressive direction.

In October, Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández signed a statement, with the approval of Pope Francis, affirming that transgender people can be baptized, become official godparents, and act as a witness for weddings in the Catholic faith. That statement was made public this week, by the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith and can be found here. In the last year alone, the Pope has taken many steps towards the inclusion of the LGBTQ+ community.


This Pope, wants you to pretend with him. He wants you to make-believe that men can now become women. It's become the church of the great pretenders.

I am not worried that some will throw in my face that I receive [transgender people] in the general audience on Wednesdays. They come from the hand of Sister Geneviève Jeanningros, a French nun of the Little Sisters of Jesus of Carlos de Foucauld dedicated to the circus ministry. The first time [the trans group] came and saw me, they left crying, saying that I shook their hand, gave a kiss… As if I had done something exceptional with them. But they are daughters of God! [God] still loves you just like that, just the way you are.

 

[marks]

I have considered it marks. Thank you. (sincerely)

Your POV on the matter is new to me. Since I DO know the bible for myself....I disagree with your POV.

But I also know that if I don't agree with your POV.....I really don't know the bible for myself. That means YOU will always be right and I will always be wrong.

The question here is, what do you understand from the use of the word ginetai? A word denoting the origin of something?

You see, it's not important whether you or I agree with each other, but there's this word here in the Bible that you are not accounting for, and it disagrees with your understanding given you by your church.

That's what you have to deal with. Not me.

Much love!

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

There may be those who read this thread for whom the topic concerns themselves, a family member or friend. The Bible condemns loose words that slander or condemn unjustly. On homosexuality, there are two passages where many modern translations render it "practicing homosexuals" or something similar. Yet, the NRSV Updated Edition of 2021 states in the footnote, on the words involved: "6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain". A passage in James comes to mind when we are dealing with Bible words that are "uncertain":

Jas 3:10 KJVA "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be."

That word "cursing" is not what we think of as "cussing". It has a different meaning. The LXX uses this word to mean "vilification". The Expositor's Bible Commentary truly gets into the meaning here:

"One reckless word may blight a whole life. "Many have fallen by the edge of the sword, but not so many as have fallen by the tongue" (Sir 28:18). And there are persons who habitually pour forth such things, who never pass a day without uttering what is unkind, or false, or impure. When we look around us and see the moral ruin which in every class of society can be traced to reckless language-lives embittered, and blighted, and brutalized by words spoken and heard-can we wonder at the severe words of St. James, whose experience was not very different from our own? Violent and uncharitable language had become one of the besetting sins of the Jews, and no doubt Jewish Christians were by no means free from it. "Curse the whisperer and the double-tongued," says the son of Sirach, "for such have destroyed many that were at peace" (Sir 28:13). To which the Syriac Version adds a clause not given in the Greek, nor in our Bibles: "Also the third tongue, let it be cursed; for it has laid low many corpses." This expression, "third tongue," seems to have come into use among the Jews in the period between the Old and New Testament. It means a slanderous tongue, and it is called "third" because it is fatal to three sets of people-to the person who utters the slander, to those who listen to it, and to those about whom it is uttered. "A third tongue hath tossed many to and fro, and driven them from nation to nation; and strong cities hath it pulled down, and houses of great men hath it overthrown" (Sir 28:14); where not only the Syriac, but the Greek, has the interesting expression "third tongue," a fact obscured in our version." *I'll listen to the wisdom of men in the apocrypha over the "wisdom" of ignorant, unknown Internet posters.

"The "third tongue" is as common and as destructive now as when the son of Sirach denounced it, or St. James wrote against it with still greater authority; and we all of us can do a great deal to check the mischief, not merely by taking care that we keep our own tongues from originating evil, but by refusing to repeat, or if possible even to listen to, what the third tongue says. Our unwillingness to hear may be a discouragement to the speaker, and our refusal to repeat will at least lessen the evil of his tale. We shall have saved ourselves from becoming links in the chain of destruction." James 3 - The Expositor's Bible Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

James in the next chapter is clear: "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"

Suppose we look at the last sentence of the OP to get the true meaning of the OP Title: "a few people that were gay and they said they were Christians". A passage from Paul comes to mind as well: "Who are you to pass judgment on servants of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or fall. And they will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them stand." (Rom 14:4 NRSV)

An article on homosexuality in a certain Bible dictionary gets to the core issue:

New Bible Dictionary, Third Edition, IVP Copyright 1996
"The Bible says nothing specifically about the homosexual condition (despite the rather misleading RSV [1st Ed]translation of 1 Cor. 6:9), but its condemnations of homosexual conduct are explicit. The scope of these strictures must, however, be carefully determined. Too often they have been used as tools of a homophobic polemic which has claimed too much." page 478

Let that sink in "Too often they have been used as tools of a homophobic polemic which has claimed too much."

Well done.

I believe Leviticus 18:22 removes any ambiguity.

Leviticus 18:22 Parallel: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

biblehub.com

Translations from Aramaic
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And do not lie down with a male in the lying down of a woman, because it is defiled.

Lamsa Bible
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; because it is an abomination.

In Genesis God said to Adam and Eve, be fruitful and multiply. All creatures in God's world are made male and female to do that very thing.

This Biological function is never possible between same sex partners engaged in sexual congress.

Too often our society will arrive at a point where we presume to play God.

Activism that seeks to have society concede the unnatural sex act of same sex intercourse, the mental illness that displays as Trans sexuality, is acceptable by different means,the law, official policy, asks for , even demands, tolerance . And yet is intolerant of faith and commonsense that refuses to agree God made a mistake.

 

[Arthur81]

1. Prayers for the dead is written in Maccabees which was written around 40AD....which is before some NT letters.
2. Making the sign of the cross is first referenced by Origin who lived until about 253AD soooo you got that one wrong also.
5 and 22. The first record of a "mass", is from Justin Martyr and around the year 152AD. What he wrote is what The Church still does today. Also, the Didache, written in 80AD speaks of how Christians gathered every Lords day to break bread, give thanks and confess transgressions. That is what is still done in The Church today, 2,000 years later sooooo you got that one wrong also.

You really don't know your own Christian history...Do you Arthur?

How do you eat His body and drink His blood like He told you to do Arthur?

I am convinced that not only did God create me with a knowledge of Him and His law; he created me with commonsense realism. When Jesus says the bread and wine are His body and blood; He is sitting right there with them, so it is illogical to say the "symbols" are Himself! Only a nutty, extreme literalist can read into that some idea the bread and wine become His body and blood at the Lord's Supper. They are "ordinances".

 

[marks]

Francis’ predecessor, the late Pope Benedict XVI, also said in 2014 transgender people would be the next challenge faced by the church, calling it the “ultimate rebellion against God the Creator,” and in his 2012 Christmas address said it is a “profound falsehood” that people can identify with a gender not assigned at birth.

I've been giving thought to the question, what is "the lie":

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 YLT
8) and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,
9) him, whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
10) and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11) and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12) that they may be judged—all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness.

It's not named. So I can only speculate.

The first truth told by God about man,

Genesis 1:27 YLT
27) And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.

When God judges individuals in this age, in this life, it's in this way:

Romans 1:24-27 YLT
24) Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;
25) who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen.
26) Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;
27) and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.

They change the truth of God into a lie, and serve the creature, so God gives them over to homosexuality.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am convinced that not only did God create me with a knowledge of Him and His law; he created me with commonsense realism. When Jesus says the bread and wine are His body and blood; He is sitting right there with them, so it is illogical to say the "symbols" are Himself! Only a nutty, extreme literalist can read into that some idea the bread and wine become His body and blood at the Lord's Supper. They are "ordinances".

Jesus Himself explained that this was allegory for the spiritual truth, but that part gets ignored I guess.

Much love!

 

[Arthur81]

Well done.

I believe Leviticus 18:22 removes any ambiguity.

Leviticus 18:22 Parallel: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

biblehub.com

Translations from Aramaic
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And do not lie down with a male in the lying down of a woman, because it is defiled.

Lamsa Bible
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; because it is an abomination.

In Genesis God said to Adam and Eve, be fruitful and multiply. All creatures in God's world are made male and female to do that very thing.

This Biological function is never possible between same sex partners engaged in sexual congress.

Too often our society will arrive at a point where we presume to play God.

Activism that seeks to have society concede the unnatural sex act of same sex intercourse, the mental illness that displays as Trans sexuality, is acceptable by different means,the law, official policy, asks for , even demands, tolerance . And yet is intolerant of faith and commonsense that refuses to agree God made a mistake.

Why anyone with any knowledge of the Bible would quote Leviticus 18:22 to a gay CHRISTIAN, escapes me. To whom is Leviticus 18:22 written and meant for? It certainly is NOT for a New Covenant believer, a Christian.

"These are the statutes and ordinances and laws that the LORD established between himself and the people of Israel on Mount Sinai through Moses." (Lev 26:46 NRSV)

"These are the commandments that the LORD gave to Moses for the people of Israel on Mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 NRSV)

In spite of the word games some play, Leviticus 18:22 is NOT quoted in the NT as a command for Christians.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Why anyone with any knowledge of the Bible would quote Leviticus 18:22 to a gay CHRISTIAN, escapes me. To whom is Leviticus 18:22 written and meant for? It certainly is NOT for a New Covenant believer, a Christian.

Your credibility just expired.

"These are the statutes and ordinances and laws that the LORD established between himself and the people of Israel on Mount Sinai through Moses." (Lev 26:46 NRSV)

"These are the commandments that the LORD gave to Moses for the people of Israel on Mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 NRSV)

In spite of the word games some play, Leviticus 18:22 is NOT quoted in the NT as a command for Christians.

Please post where Immanuel Jesus stated homosexuality is no longer an abomination.

.

 

[Mink57]

I am convinced that not only did God create me with a knowledge of Him and His law; he created me with commonsense realism. When Jesus says the bread and wine are His body and blood; He is sitting right there with them, so it is illogical to say the "symbols" are Himself! Only a nutty, extreme literalist can read into that some idea the bread and wine become His body and blood at the Lord's Supper. They are "ordinances".

"With God ALL things are possible..."

 

[Arthur81]

Your credibility just expired.

Please post where Immanuel Jesus stated homosexuality is no longer an abomination.

.

Arguments from silence don't carry much weight, especially when there is no context where you'd find a late 19th century word used when such a word has no equivalent in the NT Greek. But, better, considering context, why did Jesus not condemn male to male sex when he was referring to the sin of Sodom? He said nothing about sexual sin, but spoke of the rejection of the messengers of God.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Arguments from silence don't carry much weight, especially when there is no context.

God's word is eternal. It reverberates across time,as we know it,for eternity. God did not create men and women to engage in homosexual congress.

We know this because when we were created, were made, to be fruitful and multiply.

While the first law of God was given in the garden outright by God,thou shalt not eat, the natural law of God preceded that. Be fruitful and multiply.

where you'd find a late 19th century word used when such a word has no equivalent in the NT Greek. But, better, considering context, why did Jesus not condemn male to male sex when he was referring to the sin of Sodom? He said nothing about sexual sin, but spoke of the rejection of the messengers of God.

Remember what happened with those messengers? The townsmen at Lot's door?
Why were the messengers sent to Sodom? And Gomorrah.

The Jews to whom Immanuel-Jesus spoke knew the story well. It is a historic fact. Why detail what was already punished by God?


A multitude of sins were exhibited in those cities and besides the sin homosexuality.