How did Jesus keep from sinning?

[Scott Downey]

How did we get from "How did Jesus keep from sinning?" to:

"Yes, He did sin."

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Jesus was "born under the law."

Breaking the Sabbath would have been a sin for Him.

He knew no sin. He condemned it in the flesh.

Therefore, He did not break the Sabbath.

He never admitted to doing so; he merely taught that the Pharisees' understanding of proper Sabbath-keeping was incorrect, EVEN in the context of the law of Moses.

Simple stuff for one who does not place himself "under the law" (in the Romans 3 sense of the term) by rebelling against it.

Those who would impeach the 4th commandment at any cost will not like this but it is, nevertheless, true.

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Your using sophistry and human reasoning, while I am pointing out relevant scriptures.

 

[BarneyFife]

Your using sophistry and human reasoning, while I am pointing out relevant scriptures.

Please define "sophistry" and show exactly in what manner I am using it.

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[Scott Downey]

We are no longer immediately under theocratic law, under which all manner of sin was punishable by death. The "Sabbath violation must be punished by death" argument is bogus.

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At that TIME, back then, the NC was not yet fully established as Christ had not yet shed His blood. Your argument is bogus.
This was the Law of Moses, and certainly those people were hypocrites and lawbreakers back then if they did not follow the commandments, and none did. They all broke the Law and disregarded God, so God disregarded them.

 

[Scott Downey]

This was them back then, and still is true today. none of them follow the Law of Moses, and the Sabbath Law which is part of the Law of Moses. All jews today break the law, as well do everyone else.

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

 

[BarneyFife]

At that TIME, back then, the NC was not yet fully established as Christ had not yet shed His blood. Your argument is bogus.
This was the Law of Moses, and certainly those people were hypocrites and lawbreakers back then if they did not follow the commandments, and none did. They all broke the Law and disregarded God, so God disregarded them.

Are we going to have one of those "No, you..." conversations?

I'd rather not, if you don't mind.

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[BarneyFife]

At that TIME, back then, the NC was not yet fully established as Christ had not yet shed His blood. Your argument is bogus.
This was the Law of Moses, and certainly those people were hypocrites and lawbreakers back then if they did not follow the commandments, and none did. They all broke the Law and disregarded God, so God disregarded them.

The New Covenant is Eternal forward and backward. No one has ever been saved without it.

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[Scott Downey]

Your using sophistry and human reasoning, while I am pointing out relevant scriptures.

Christ did not sin when breaking the sabbath, that is your mistaken understanding.

 

[Scott Downey]

The New Covenant is Eternal forward and backward. No one has ever been saved without it.

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There was no NC until Christ came. He established the NC in His Blood.
None of the OT saints at death ascended into Heaven. They all died and went to sheol, the OC laws made no one perfect.
Describing them here in Hebrews 11, the OT saints and their faith.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 

[BarneyFife]

This was them back then, and still is true today. none of them follow the Law of Moses, and the Sabbath Law which is part of the Law of Moses. All jews today break the law, as well do everyone else.

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

Notice, as you, yourself here quote: The fault was found with THEM—not the law of Ten Commandments.

And God knew the problem (fault) and the solution, and voiced it with His own lips long before even Jeremiah gave the famous promise in ch. 31, v 31-34 of his prophetic book.

Deuteronomy 5
27Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it....(The Fault)

29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! ...(The Solution)

...which is not even to mention the promise of the New Covenant made in Genesis 3:15 or the Revelation (13:8) of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

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[BarneyFife]

Christ did not sin when breaking the sabbath, that is your mistaken understanding.

Quoting yourself doesn't get anyone notified.

And it is not my understanding that Christ sinned at all.

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[BarneyFife]

There was no NC until Christ came. He established the NC in His Blood.
None of the OT saints at death ascended into Heaven. They all died and went to sheol, the OC laws made no one perfect.
Describing them here in Hebrews 11, the OT saints and their faith.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

"Receive the promise" means "ascend into Heaven?"

I don't think so.

What do you think verse 40 means?

And what are "the OC laws?"

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[Big Boy Johnson]

The "Sabbath violation must be punished by death" argument is bogus.

Shows a big change between the old covenant verses the new covenant

The Sabbath under the old is different than under the new.

Christ did not sin when breaking the sabbath

That's because Jesus took away the old covenant and the Law of Moses and replaced it with the New Covenant and the Law of Christ.

So, it just appears that Jesus broke the sabbath to those still thinking the old covenant sabbath was still a thing which it was not once God's Word came in the flesh.

 

[BarneyFife]

Shows a big change between the old covenant verses the new covenant

The Sabbath under the old is different than under the new. View attachment 39723





That's because Jesus took away the old covenant and the Law of Moses and replaced it with the New Covenant and the Law of Christ.

So, it just appears that Jesus broke the sabbath to those still thinking the old covenant sabbath was still a thing which it was not once God's Word came in the flesh.

The "law of Moses" was in effect until the veil was rent in twain as Christ drew His last breath.

Not that it matters as regards the 4th commandment.

Who gave the Ten Commandments, by the way, or is Pierre on the run again?

(Just joking around with you )
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[Big Boy Johnson]

God gave the 10 commandments thru His Word which b of course is Jesus

Then, SOMEBODY came and took something away, so He could establish something else

Hebrews 10:9
Then said He, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[BarneyFife]

God gave the 10 commandments thru His Word which b of course is Jesus

Then, SOMEBODY came and took something away, so He could establish something else

Hebrews 10:9
Then said He, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

You said I spoke evil by saying Jesus commanded the Sabbath.

Whose finger etched the tablets of stone, BB? Out with it.

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[Big Boy Johnson]

You said I spoke evil by saying Jesus commanded the Sabbath.

Whose finger etched the tablets of stone, BB? Out with it.

Yeah, I doubt I said "people who say Jesus gave the 10 Commandments are evil people"

The same Lord that took away the old testament (including the Law of Moses which is where the 10 Commandments were given) and started the New Testament... and changed the law according to...

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

So the Lord took the old away and brought forth some new and better

 

[BarneyFife]

Yeah, I doubt I said "people who say Jesus gave the 10 Commandments are evil people"

Uh huh, claiming Jesus commanded something He never commanded... is evil speaking of a much worse kind that joking around with someone.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That's just twisting what I actually said...

I was saying that Jesus never commanded when He was in His earthly ministry... for anybody to keep the Sabbath.

As I was explaining that the New Testament teaches us that Jesus took the old covenant away and established the new

So, claiming that Jesus taught we must keep Saturday sabbath is untrue... because HE took the old away and established the New... where Saturday sabbath is not a required and has been replaced by something else.

Rejecting Hebrews 10:9, and Hebrews 7:12 is what the problem is.

 

[BarneyFife]

That's just twisting what I actually said...

I was saying that Jesus never commanded when He was in His earthly ministry... for anybody to keep the Sabbath.

As I was explaining that the New Testament teaches us that Jesus took the old covenant away and established the new

So, claiming that Jesus taught we must keep Saturday sabbath is untrue... because HE took the old away and established the New... where Saturday sabbath is not a required and has been replaced by something else.

Rejecting Hebrews 10:9, and Hebrews 7:12 is what the problem is.

Yeah, so Jesus never commanded anybody to keep Saturday sabbath so that rumor has been debunked and is defunct!

 

[Fred J]

He never broke the Sabbath either as it was the rules and traditions that the Pharisees had come up with and made it a burden rather than the true purpose. Here is a good description..
'The Sabbath was to be a day in which all men ceased from their labors and gave themselves to a remembrance of the Lord.

However, the Pharisees in the days of Jesus had changed the Sabbath into something it was never meant to be. In their desire to protect and to uphold the law, they built a hedge around the keeping of the Sabbath. They had written up chapter upon chapter concerning what it meant to keep the Sabbath.

• They said that you could only eat and egg which had been laid on the Sabbath if you killed the chicken for Sabbath-breaking.
• A donkey could be led out of the stable on the Sabbath, but the harness and saddle had to be placed on him the day before.
• An egg could not be boiled on the Sabbath, either by normal means or by putting it near a hot kettle or by wrapping it in a hot cloth or by putting it in the hot sand outside.
• If the lights were on when the Sabbath came (Sabbath began at sundown), you could not blow them out. If they had not been lit in time, then you could not light them.
• It was unlawful to move furniture on the Sabbath. There was an exception to this in that you were allowed to move a ladder on the Sabbath, but you could only move it four steps.
• It was unlawful to wear any jewelry or ornaments on the Sabbath, since this might be construed as carrying a burden.
• It was not permitted to wear false teeth on the Sabbath (that must have been a hit in the synagogue services).
• You were allowed to eat radishes on the Sabbath, but you were warned against dipping them into salt because you might leave them in the salt too long and pickle them and this was considered to be Sabbath-breaking. The Pharisees actually had discussions as to how long it took to pickle a radish.
• It was fine to spit on a rock on the Sabbath, but you could not spit on the ground, because that made mud and mud was mortar, and that was work.
• If a woman got mud on her dress, she was to wait until it had dried and then she was permitted to crumple the dress in her hands one time and crush it and then shake it out once. If that did not do the trick, then she had to wear it.
• They taught that you should not look in a mirror on the Sabbath because you might be tempted to pluck out a grey hair and that would be reaping....."..https://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/lk06-01.html

Breathtaking, thank you very much it was to detail.

Basically, GOD made the Sabbath for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Since, HE would have witnessed, that man tend to get carried away working 24/7 eventually. HE decided to make a decree that the man shall work for six days.

But, when comes on the seventh day, he shall take rest from his work. Most probably, also for him to spend more time with his family.