There is no spiritual gift called "the gift of tongues".

[Keiw]

In Post #45 above, I presented the case as to why your understanding of 1 Cor 13:8 is in error.

It requires that we understand the Greek constructs in chapter 13 before we begin to make a theology from just one verse wrongly translated.

Perhaps verse 8 is a repeat of verses 1 and 2 in the same chapter: -

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

We really need to study the Greek text and its grammar.

If trinity scholars did just that( study Greek) there would be no- the word was God- in the last line at John 1:1 in their altered translations. In every Greek lexicon-a god is 100% correct.

 

[BlessedPeace]

You are delusional

Example above.

What I don't get is how those who are obviously atheist Trolls,join this site,claim to be Christian so to gain access to Christians Only designated boards , and then proceed to assail our faith,are tolerated and allowed to insult all that we hold dear.


Yes,they're obviously flawed and have nothing else to do in their life however, would we tolerate that type attitude if they did the same thing in a church service?

If they stood and screamed, you're all delusional! And on and on.

 

[Fred J]

Example above.

What I don't get is how those who are obviously atheist Trolls,join this site,claim to be Christian so to gain access to Christians Only designated boards , and then proceed to assail our faith,are tolerated and allowed to insult all that we hold dear.


Yes,they're obviously flawed and have nothing else to do in their life however, would we tolerate that type attitude if they did the same thing in a church service?

If they stood and screamed, you're all delusional! And on and on.

They are the world and of their father the devil who lies and deceives them apparently. And the lusts of their father they will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abided not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Didn't he sneaked in as well into the garden of Eden as a snake, and worked his way to lie and deceive the innocent beginners?

 

[ScottA]

Once again you show your lack of scriptural understanding and woukd rather hold fast to and double down on it and error thats inherent in it.

The gift IS the Spirit itself, not a manifestation of it (one of its gifts), and you receive the actual Spirit upon being baptized into Christ. Notice the below scripture says exactly that.

Acts2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That is a good and helpful passage, but you have still omitted and apparently have no knowledge of the facts that we who are in Christ are a body of many different members and, yes, different gifts, for the edifying of all given to all according to God as it pleases Him.

In which case, as it is written, those who do not work accordingly, will not eat. And with your obvious denial of gifts intended for good works, it shows. Unfortunately.

Wrong.
Everyone... present heard the Apostles speak in their own dialects of languages of birth. The drunk reference was NOT in response to hearing gibberish like you are TRYING to insinuate.

Acts 2:6-11
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
KJV

So much for your telling lies against that Acts 2 Bible Scripture.

You didn't include verse 13 of Acts 2, which states that "others" did not hear in their own language, but heard what sounded like men drunk on wine.

Which would appear to be something different, something Paul later elaborated.

 

[Johann]

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Presently we shall mention by name some of the twenty sects or religious leaders which we have in mind. In the religious program of these twenty “churches” we find that they teach and practice

1—Christians should eat no pork.
2—Christians should keep Israel’s seventh day Sabbath.
3—Christians should wash one another’s feet.
4—Christians should not wear jewelry.
5—Christians should sell their property and put the money in a common treasury
6—Christians should not pay a pastor a stipulated salary.
7—Preachers should go out two by two.
8—Preachers should not have any money in their purses.
9—Christians should cast out demons.
10—Christians should raise the dead.
11—Christians should heal the lepers.
12—Christians should lay hands on the sick and thus restore health.
13—Christians should anoint the sick with oil.
14—Christians should bless aprons and handkerchiefs and cure the sick by putting them on their bodies.
15—Christians should have visions and dream dreams.
16—Christians should not be injured by the poison from serpents.
17—Christians should speak with tongues and other Christians should be able to interpret.
18—Christians should have the gift of discerning of spirits.
19—Christians should cut off their offending hands and pluck out their offending eyes.
20—Christians should lend money to any one who would borrow and not expect the return of the loan.
21—Christians should take a gift to the priest when they are healed.
22—Christians should have miraculous jail deliverances.
23—Christians receive no more forgiveness from God than others receive from these same Christians.
24—The meek shall inherit the earth.
25—Christians should do greater works than Christ did.
26—Christians should give up their cloaks also when sued for their coats.
27—Christians should not have two coats.
28—Christians should be circumcised.
29—Christians should practice the imposition of hands.
30—Believers should be baptized with water for the remission of sins.

Before you condemn or ridicule any of these twenty groups for including these religious ceremonies and practices in their programs, find one single one of them that is not wholly Scriptural. Then ask yourself this question: “How many of the thirty do I practice?” Check them on the list. Then tell yourself why you do not include more of the thirty in your program. Your answer will perhaps be, “they do not belong to this dispensation.” Those that you rule out by your dispensational principle, mean your dispensational answer to some undispensational religious practices. But are you absolutely positive that what you believe, endorse or practice is both Scriptural and dispensationally correct?

When that religious woman in California recently cut off her hand because it offended her, was she not obeying the words of the Lord?

“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they speak with tongues, and prophesied.”

Now let’s be honest and unprejudiced and fair-minded. What right has any servant of the Lord to arbitrarily select baptism, and some religious handkerchiefs, and ignore the imposition of hands for Holy Spirit baptism and the speaking with tongues, when all are linked together in the same chapter and the same Divine economy? Didn’t Paul say, “follow me” If we are to follow Paul in the matter of water and religious handkerchiefs, why not in the imposition of hands for Holy Spirit baptism and speaking with tongues? Hear Paul’s testimony

“Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.” “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all.” I Corinthians 14:39 and 14:18.

There is a very zealous Fundamentalist here in Chicago. He is the brother responsible for disrupting the fellowship in the Fundamentalist Ministers’ Association by introducing a resolution concerning water baptism into the Association. He and one of the leading pastors of the city carried through their determined purpose after they were urged and warned. But the brother was somewhat consistent in contending so strenuously for the water because he delighted in the use of oil for physical healing. Water and oil belong to the same spiritual program in the Bible. Although James did write “to the twelve tribes of Israel,” and although he did say in Acts 15:19, “wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God,” and although there is no record in the Bible that any Gentiles were anointed with oil, the Bible does say,

“Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.” James 5:13 and 14.

All of these brethren dispensationally, or otherwise, rule out many of the religious practices mentioned above, while holding on to their “pet” doctrines and practices.

You may peruse this link-or forbear.

The Dispensational Answer to Undispensational Religious Practices

The Dispensational Answer to Undispensational Religious Practices One of the principal reasons why we are publishing this 320 page book, entitled “The Unsearchable Riches of Christ,” why we are sending forth these messages emphasizing the Divine truth which the risen Christ revealed to the Apostle

bereanbiblesociety.org

 

[Fred J]

Wrong.
Everyone... present heard the Apostles speak in their own dialects of languages of birth. The drunk reference was NOT in response to hearing gibberish like you are TRYING to insinuate.

Acts 2:6-11
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
KJV

So much for your telling lies against that Acts 2 Bible Scripture.

Stop being silly and immature, misjudging me of telling lies.

Why are you ignorant to the fact for not reading carefully my reply, i mentioned on the day of Pentecost they received, 'Tongues of men' ??

 

[BlessedPeace]

They are the world and of their father the devil who lies and deceives them apparently. And the lusts of their father they will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abided not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Didn't he sneaked in as well into the garden of Eden as a snake, and worked his way to lie and deceive the innocent beginners?

Deceived the innocent within the Sovereign domain of their creator.

 

[DJT_47]

Let us see if this verse is true within the context it is found within. I suspect that the translation of just his verse should read as: -

8 Love never fails. If, however, {love fails} and there are prophecies, they will fail; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

Let us look at the context of the passage this verse is found in: -

1 Cor 13: -

The Greatest Gift

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. If, however, {love fails} and there are prophecies, they will fail; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

If we take a verse out of the passage it is found in, then the context of that verse is lost.

Also, the KJV is not the best version on which to rely.

Shalom

In Post #45 above, I presented the case as to why your understanding of 1 Cor 13:8 is in error.

It requires that we understand the Greek constructs in chapter 13 before we begin to make a theology from just one verse wrongly translated.

Perhaps verse 8 is a repeat of verses 1 and 2 in the same chapter: -

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

We really need to study the Greek text and its grammar.

Yes. Chapter 13 is about love (charity per kjv), granted, I'd that's what you're insinuating; but that's not the bottom line to the issue of "gifts" or manifestations of the Spirit being applicable today. The bottom line is, they're no longer needed, but more importantly, the gifts could no longer be made manifest because they only became manifested by the laying on ofvthe apostles hands, with the exception of Acts 2 and 10 anomalies, and the apostles are long dead. So, what's your point?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

When that religious woman in California recently cut off her hand because it offended her, was she not obeying the words of the Lord?

No, she was not... she should have cut off the sinful habit instead.

We've been bought with a price, we are not out own... our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so Jesus is not telling us to actually cut off our hand it it does sinful things. We are to cut off that which the hand is doing

So after all the blah blah you posted... do you still think Jesus spoke
wrongly in Mark 16:17 and we should just ignore Him

 

[Johann]

So after all the blah blah you posted... do you still think Jesus spoke
wrongly in Mark 16:17 and we should just ignore Him

One more word and on ignore you go.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

One more word and on ignore you go.

word

 

[Johann]

word

You won't be missed.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You won't be missed.

That's a relief... I was very concerned that you wuz gonna miss me

 

[Keiw]

No, she was not... she should have cut off the sinful habit instead.

We've been bought with a price, we are not out own... our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so Jesus is not telling us to actually cut off our hand it it does sinful things. We are to cut off that which the hand is doing

So after all the blah blah you posted... do you still think Jesus spoke
wrongly in Mark 16:17 and we should just ignore Him View attachment 40969

I shared with you a super important truth from Jesus but you rejected it just because some man assured you my religion is wrong. Yet the teachings of Jesus back my religion in every translation on earth. I just shared another important truth from Jesus with you, will you reject that one as well?

 

[BlessedPeace]

You won't be missed.

True.
When the rotted fruits keep piling up,no amount of fakery will disguise their core.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Concerning the jehovah's witnesses occasionally have something correct to say.... even a broken clock is right twice a day and even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut

It's all the other unbiblical stuff the jw's add to the bible that makes them a cult.

I hope you get set free from the jw's sooner rather than later because... these are YO last days and time is running out.

 

[ElieG12]

In the early 20th century, when Pentecostals began to expand their idea that they were being anointed with spirit and given the ability to speak in tongues, some leaders among them went to African territories in order to teach their doctrine. These religious people really believed that they could speak in the languages of the lands of Africa because of the power of the spirit in them, so they went there excited... to realize at their arrival there that they had to learn the languages of the people by studying and communicating with them, like any mortal has to do. They did not have any gift of tongues, nor had they received the holy spirit as the disciples of Jesus received in the first century. That idea was an illusion and to this day it remains so.

The holy spirit today operates in many different ways, some similar to those in the first century, but others different, but the miraculous works of the spirit in the first century are no longer necessary today to demonstrate that we have the spirit of God or that our congregation is the true one that Jesus leads from heaven, because there are other ways to show that Jesus is really with us and our congregation of brothers, and that the spirit of God supports us (Matt. 28:19,20; John 13:34,35; Gal. 5:22,23).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That idea was an illusion and to this day it remains so.

It's only an illusion to those that choose to walk in unbelief.

Those folks don't have to concern themselves with any of the gifts of the Spirit as the Lord will not be visiting them

 

[ElieG12]

It's only an illusion to those that choose to walk in unbelief.

Those folks don't have to concern themselves with any of the gifts of the Spirit as the Lord will not be visiting them

I guess you think you were visited by your "Lord" and can speak tongues...

Can you write those tongues too? I would like to see how you write that you think you speak...

PS: I guess you can download a different keyboard if you need it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

It's too bad you think Jesus was lying about this...

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Groanings - from G4726, which comes from G4726 (Strong's Greek Concordance) to sigh, murmur, pray inaudibly: KJV -- with grief, groan, grudge, sigh. Inarticulate speech, or speech that is not in any known language to man

(In 1 Corinthians 13:1, Paul speaks of talking in the the tongues of angels - a supernatural language)

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:2 is speaking of our personal prayer language, which is something we do in our prayer closet and not in public. Some have the gift of speaking a tongue in a public meeting for interpretation by another but should NOT be doing so if no interpreter is present.

1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

This is speaking of different kinds of tongues and that some have the gift of interpretation of tongues. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues for interpretation in a public setting like a church service... but that does not mean all don't have the gift of tongues for their private prayer life in their prayer closet between themselves and the Lord.


Isaiah 28:11,12
For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

There is a rest and knowledge that comes thru speaking in tongues
(the knowledge received has to agree with God's written Word, otherwise it's not the Holy Spirit speaking)