Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Behold]

Interesting comment. I guess I missed your heretic 'teaching'. I usually remove all doubt and just tell people that I'm a heretic.

1.) Jesus said...""""" I come to do thy will, O God. = He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second."""" (Hebrews Chapter 10)

So, this is explaining that through Jesus's sacrifice, (The Cross) .... God has removed the Old Covenant, that is Law and Commandments, and replaced it with the New Covenant, which is... The Grace of God. The Mercy of God. The "Blood atonement".
Notice. .. "The Law came by Moses (there is your 1st Covenant) but ""Grace and TRUTH, came by Jesus"" = there is your NEW Covenant, which is the NEW Testament.

Now to get INTO the New Covenant, .. Jesus said.. ."you must be BORN....again".
So, until a person comes to REAL Faith in Christ and is born again, .. then they remain under the 1st (Old) Covenant, = Under the Law, and "by the Law is the knowledge of Sin".

The Good News, is...."Christ has Redeemed us from the Curse of the LAW"..... "Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness, to/for everyone who BELIEVES"...
And the """curse""" is to be under the Law, which allows the Law to judge you as a SINNER... @Hillsage
So, the Grace of God, is the NEW Covenant, that takes the LAW's dominion off of you forever, and puts you here...= "Not under the Law, but under Grace".

See that Grace of God @Hillsage ????
That is the NEW Covenant, and that is where God spiritually rejoins Mankind for eternity... , only based on the Cross of Christ.

Now one more....
Jesus said "IT"......"is finished"?
What is finished?

A.) Our Salvation......, as Jesus just finished it, and told you...."IT", our Salvation, is FINISHED.

How did He do that?

A.) """"For God hath made JESUS to be sin for us""".... and what does that do for you?
A.) "Jesus is the one time.....ETERNAL.....Sacrifice for SIN"....

This :

"""""This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."""""

Notice carefully Reader....., their """SINS and Iniquities"""" = """God will remember = no more.""""

So how did that happen, ?? What caused God to never again see your sin, or you as a sinner... ???? (If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious). ??

A.) """" But this Man, Jesus The Christ"....after HE had offered ONE sacrifice for sins FOREVER on the Cross.....sat down on the right hand of God""

Reader, did you notice that the sacrifice for your SINS, is "FOREVER"..
That means yesterday, today, and forever.

This means that you are forgiven, FOREVER.. As Salvation is not a part time Redemption, ...it is ETERNAL ... = "forever".

And.....The Reason that Jesus sat down after He returned to Heaven, is because "IT"... Your Salvation..."Is FINISHED", and if you are born again, you now belong to God for as long as God lives.

Now.
Do you see the completeness of the Cross of Christ, as your Salvation?
So, the answer is...."JESUS is your Salvation"... just like He is your Eternal LIFE.
And JESUS is inside you, as "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory"...if you are born again, and you now exist as "IN Christ", = "ONE with God".

For how long?
For as long as God and Christ LIVE.

NOW, HERETICS, do not understand this at all. @Hillsage
They do not understand "FOREVER".
They do not understand "COMPLETED".
They do not understand "God Grace"
They do not understand the "IT is finished".
They do not understand the "Blood Atonement".

So, @Hillsage .... what Heretics will teach you, is that Jesus STARTED your Salvation, and now its on your back to complete it, by SELF EFFORT, .....which is manufactured Self Righteousness.
And THAT Theology, that tells you that you are still a sinner, and you have sin,= denies the Cross of Christ and Rejects the Grace of God, and is designed to deceive you and keep you away from the Truth.

Believe it.

 

[Hillsage]

1.) Jesus said...""""" I come to do thy will, O God. = He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second."""" (Hebrews Chapter 10)

So, this is explaining that through Jesus's sacrifice, (The Cross) .... God has removed the Old Covenant, that is Law and Commandments, and replaced it with the New Covenant, which is... The Grace of God. The Mercy of God. The "Blood atonement".
Notice. .. "The Law came by Moses (there is your 1st Covenant) but ""Grace and TRUTH, came by Jesus"" = there is your NEW Covenant, which is the NEW Testament.

Now to get INTO the New Covenant, .. Jesus said.. ."you must be BORN....again".
So, until a person comes to REAL Faith in Christ and is born again, .. then they remain under the 1st (Old) Covenant, = Under the Law, and "by the Law is the knowledge of Sin".

The Good News, is...."Christ has Redeemed us from the Curse of the LAW"..... "Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness, to/for everyone who BELIEVES"...
And the """curse""" is to be under the Law, which allows the Law to judge you as a SINNER... @Hillsage
So, the Grace of God, is the NEW Covenant, that takes the LAW's dominion off of you forever, and puts you here...= "Not under the Law, but under Grace".

See that Grace of God @Hillsage ????
That is the NEW Covenant, and that is where God spiritually rejoins Mankind for eternity... , only based on the Cross of Christ.

Now one more....
Jesus said "IT"......"is finished"?
What is finished?

A.) Our Salvation......, as Jesus just finished it, and told you...."IT", our Salvation, is FINISHED.

How did He do that?

A.) """"For God hath made JESUS to be sin for us""".... and what does that do for you?
A.) "Jesus is the one time.....ETERNAL.....Sacrifice for SIN"....

This :

"""""This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."""""

Notice carefully Reader....., their """SINS and Iniquities"""" = """God will remember = no more.""""

So how did that happen, ?? What caused God to never again see your sin, or you as a sinner... ???? (If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious). ??

A.) """" But this Man, Jesus The Christ"....after HE had offered ONE sacrifice for sins FOREVER on the Cross.....sat down on the right hand of God""

Reader, did you notice that the sacrifice for your SINS, is "FOREVER"..
That means yesterday, today, and forever.

This means that you are forgiven, FOREVER.. As Salvation is not a part time Redemption, ...it is ETERNAL ... = "forever".

And.....The Reason that Jesus sat down after He returned to Heaven, is because "IT"... Your Salvation..."Is FINISHED", and if you are born again, you now belong to God for as long as God lives.

Now.
Do you see the completeness of the Cross of Christ, as your Salvation?
So, the answer is...."JESUS is your Salvation"... just like He is your Eternal LIFE.
And JESUS is inside you, as "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory"...if you are born again, and you now exist as "IN Christ", = "ONE with God".

For how long?
For as long as God and Christ LIVE.

NOW, HERETICS, do not understand this at all. @Hillsage
They do not understand "FOREVER".
They do not understand "COMPLETED".
They do not understand "God Grace"
They do not understand the "IT is finished".
They do not understand the "Blood Atonement".

So, @Hillsage .... what Heretics will teach you, is that Jesus STARTED your Salvation, and now its on your back to complete it, by SELF EFFORT, .....which is manufactured Self Righteousness.
And THAT Theology, that tells you that you are still a sinner, and you have sin,= denies the Cross of Christ and Rejects the Grace of God, and is designed to deceive you and keep you away from the Truth.

Believe it.

Interesting commentsSs......I guess I missed your heretic 'teaching'....too.
I usually remove all doubt and just tell people that I'm a heretic.....

I feel like I'm in 'fine' biblical company when I do so. But being well versed in "PAULINE THEOLOGY" I must assume you already know that too.

ACT 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[Spyder]

I told you how to find out.
Why dont you? as i told you how.

And you are not looking for a "good' translation., as we are talking about the BIBLE.

What you want is a correct translation.
And i can name several, but, that is not what you need.
What you need is to find out why most are BAD translations, and i gave you 3 Keys.

I guess we have, once again, found that there are fruitless conversations. If you choose not to answer my simple question, then I will move on.

 

[Bill Judson]

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

What a bunch of garbage this is!

 

[St. SteVen]

What a bunch of garbage this is!

Hey Bill, welcome to the discussion.
And welcome to the forum.
Looks like you are fairly new.

Is this a response to the topic title only?
Or did you actually read the OP? (opening post)

OP pasted below.
Please read and respond to the content specifically.
Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)
The Bible does NOT love me.

It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Like a universal restoration? (UR) There's hope for you yet. - LOL

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

How God will restore everything.....is by rooting out of his kingdom and destroying all the unbelieving and those who do wickedly, when once the time of His longsuffering comes to an end. As per the wheat and tares:

Mat 13:36-43

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



That is how God restores His kingdom, by rooting out and destroying everything in it that is not of Him. That is why we must be of Him, to be saved from wrath through Him. There is only salvation from wrath or perishing in the wrath, one or the other.

Here also we see the kingdom restored:

Rev 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Nobody who is not written in the Lamb’s book of life will escape the lake of the fire. And the whole thing about the lake of fire is that it is depicted in scripture as the end of the road, while there is nothing in scripture to indicate that it isn’t. God’s kingdom restored means it is cleansed and purged forever, of everything evil, polluted, temporal and carnal, so that only what remains in it is pure and righteous, spiritual/heavenly. It says elsewhere in the bible that Everything that can be shaken will be shaken until only what cannot be shaken, ie, the heavenly/spiritual, remains.

And we are not looking for a utopia on this temporal carnal earth as many think……..but are looking for new heavens and new earth, ie, the kingdom of God, New Jerusalem, which is spiritual, heavenly and above. “New”and “renewed” in scripture refers to that which is heavenly, spiritual. "Here we have no continuing city", the scripture says. And I will add that Jesus said His kingdom comes not with careful observation and is NOT of this world.

 

[St. SteVen]

That is how God restores His kingdom, by rooting out and destroying everything in it that is not of Him.

Thanks.

Questions:

- Would you say that anything that is not "of Him" is his enemy?

- What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior toward our enemies?

- Does God operate by a lower standard than he holds us to?

- Why?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

As long as we do not put love before the truth. Charity/agape love rejoices in the truth. I wonder if it is not really "unconditional" as many say, but what it is, is selfless. I believe love must be according to truth, not apart from it.

I have tried to call some out a few times who I saw were not approaching the word of God as a living word, but self-righteously as a dead letter. But I am not up to an intellectual discussion about it.

This scripture comes to mind, though after so many pages someone might have already posted it:

Rom 10:6-10

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


So if we are approaching the word of God by faith, ie, in spirit, as a living word, we will not be treating it as a dead letter and idol. When we are approaching it the way we should, we are not separating the written/spoken word from the Word made flesh.

 

[St. SteVen]

Mat 13:36-43

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Did you notice the result at the end of this passage? "Then..."

The angels gathered out all the THINGS that offend... What things?
... And THEM which do iniquity... And cast them (the THINGS that offend And THEM which do iniquity) into the furnace.

The result?
Then the righteous shall shine forth as the sun... Why?
Because they have just been refined in the fire.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

/ @Hillsage

 

[St. SteVen]

So if we are approaching the word of God by faith, ie, in spirit, as a living word, we will not be treating it as a dead letter and idol. When we are approaching it the way we should, we are not separating the written/spoken word from the Word made flesh.

That's not the problem I see. (treating the Bible as a dead letter and idol)
But those believe it is alive and should be worshiped. A relationship with the book rather than the author.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Did you notice the result at the end of this passage? "Then..."

The angels gathered out all the THINGS that offend... What things?
... And THEM which do iniquity... And cast them (the THINGS that offend And THEM which do iniquity) into the furnace.

The result?
Then the righteous shall shine forth as the sun... Why?
Because they have just been refined in the fire.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

/ @Hillsage

The wheat are the righteous of course. Even a child should understand that parable. Or maybe ONLY those who have become as little children, because He has hid the truth from the wise and learned.

Yes, when Jesus came He rebuked those who rejected Him and gave them a right scouring down, but it still didn't end well for them did it? Only for those who received His rebukes and cleansing.

The fire will sort out the wheat from the chaff in the end of this world as well....we will be tested to see who is of Him and who isn't.

 

[St. SteVen]

The wheat are the righteous of course. Even a child should understand that parable. Or maybe ONLY those who have become as little children, because He has hid the truth from the wise and learned.

Yes, when Jesus came He rebuked those who rejected Him and gave them a right scouring down, but it still didn't end well for them did it? Only for those who received His rebukes and cleansing.

The fire will sort out the wheat from the chaff in the end of this world as well....we will be tested to see who is of Him and who isn't.

I'm familiar with that interpretive view, but I don't agree with it.

So, which is it? The wise and learned know the parables but God hides the truth from them,
or it's so simple a baby could understand? - LOL And which are you? O' learned one. ???

If the fire sorts out the wheat and chaff, then everyone goes in the furnace. Right?
Glad to see how much we agree on.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

/ @Hillsage

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm familiar with that interpretive view, but I don't agree with it.

So, which is it? The wise and learned know the parables but God hides the truth from them,
or it's so simple a baby could understand? - LOL And which are you? O' learned one. ???

If the fire sorts out the wheat and chaff, then everyone goes in the furnace. Right?
Glad to see how much we agree on.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

/ @Hillsage

Judgment BEGINS with His house....we all go through it, but those who belong to Him He has promised to be with us in the fire and flood. This is the chastisements of those He loves as sons........and who is without chastisement are illegitimate children. It is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom of heaven.

You see, who falls on the Rock will be broken........but for those upon whom that Rock falls they will be ground into powder, obliterated. Now dont read any judgment or condemnation into that on my part....I'm not willing that any perish, but just that I know God's word which sadly teaches and warns that many will. All the more reason for the gospel to be preached that more might be saved.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm familiar with that interpretive view, but I don't agree with it.

So, which is it? The wise and learned know the parables but God hides the truth from them,
or it's so simple a baby could understand? - LOL And which are you? O' learned one. ???

If the fire sorts out the wheat and chaff, then everyone goes in the furnace. Right?
Glad to see how much we agree on.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

/ @Hillsage

And just to add, if we get confused with one passage we can and need to look at others....because God's word doesn't contradict itself when we look at the whole counsel of God. The parable of the sheep and the goats is the same concept as the wheat and tares. Matt 25:31-46 Have a read. And so many other scripts that warn of the coming judgment.

 

[St. SteVen]

You see, who falls on the Rock will be broken........but for those upon whom that Rock falls they will be ground into powder, obliterated. Now dont read any judgment or condemnation into that on my part....I'm not willing that any perish, but just that I know God's word which sadly teaches and warns that many will. All the more reason for the gospel to be preached that more might be saved.

Seems a pity that the Bible should sadly teach anything.
Where's the Good News in that?

"We have Good News for you! Are you ready to cry?"
"Say what?" - LOL

/

 

[St. SteVen]

And just to add, if we get confused with one passage we can and need to look at others....because God's word doesn't contradict itself when we look at the whole counsel of God.

That saw cuts both ways. What does this scripture below say about salvation?
Does it not show that the salvation of humankind rests with the obedient act of the one man? (Christ)
That the many who were made sinners will be made righteous? How so?

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The parable of the sheep and the goats is the same concept as the wheat and tares. Matt 25:31-46 Have a read. And so many other scripts that warn of the coming judgment.

I'm very surprised (not really) that you think that would bring clarity.
However, this is a very good discussion. I thank you for that.

What does Matthew 25:31-46 tell us about the deeds of those who will be saved? (vs 34-36 below)
Do you participate in those "saving tasks"? What of those who don't?

“Then the King will say to those on his right,
‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance,
the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat,
I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink,
I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me,
I was sick and you looked after me,
I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

/ @Hillsage

 

[Lizbeth]

Thanks.

Questions:

- Would you say that anything that is not "of Him" is his enemy?

- What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior toward our enemies?

- Does God operate by a lower standard than he holds us to?

- Why?

/

Haven't you heard that God knows both good and evil? That HE created the destroyer to work havoc, and that I the Lord create both good and evil? His justice is not unrighteous, it is righteous. His wrath is righteous. He owes mercy to no one, but is willing to reveal it to some, to those He has foreknown, who will accept it/Him. Other vessels are fitted to destruction in His foreknowledge, that He might make His wrath known. And who are you O man to talk back to God?....yet many do. The devil subtly accuses Him of being unrighteous in His wrath.

 

[Lizbeth]

Seems a pity that the Bible should sadly teach anything.
Where's the Good News in that?

"We have Good News for you! Are you ready to cry?"
"Say what?" - LOL

/

Well it's long past time to grow up and face REALITY and leave our childhood view of life behind. The gospel is only good news to those who will receive it. But there is bad news for those who won't......because they will face the wrath of God....the wages of sin is death. Whoever said there is only good news to be had?

 

[Lizbeth]

That's not the problem I see. (treating the Bible as a dead letter and idol)
But those believe it is alive and should be worshiped. A relationship with the book rather than the author.

/

You sure you're not splitting hairs? I think the important thing is to approach and handle the word of God the way He would want, the way it is meant to be. By not separating the word from the One who is speaking it. That is the point of the scripture I brought....to speak His word is to speak Christ, so no need to bring Him down from heaven physically. His word is alive and active through His Spirit. Idols in the bible, which by definition are worshipped, are inanimate and devoid of life, though they deceptively appear to be living.

 

[St. SteVen]

Haven't you heard that God knows both good and evil? That HE created the destroyer to work havoc, and that I the Lord create both good and evil? His justice is not unrighteous, it is righteous. His wrath is righteous. He owes mercy to no one, but is willing to reveal it to some, to those He has foreknown, who will accept it/Him. Other vessels are fitted to destruction in His foreknowledge, that He might make His wrath known. And who are you O man to talk back to God?....yet many do. The devil subtly accuses Him of being unrighteous in His wrath.

I'm familiar with that view, but I disagree.

The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Jesus came to give us life abundant.

Devil = steal, kill, and destroy
God = Life

/