Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Carl Emerson]

You say "quest of knowledge is the oldest trick that Satan uses to deceive."

The first temptation was to seek knowledge against God's advice.

 

[MatthewG]

To me its important to read and establish a round about understanding of the bible. There is no stance to stand on when it comes to sola scriptura, as that never works out for anyone. In the in end it comes down to ones own heart. To Love, Yahavah first before all else, and to love your neighbor as yourself, sometimes telling the truth can cause hurt, however it could be a benefit. What we are never to do is use the book as a Law book, in order to correct others behaviors and go around like we are gods to judge. In the end, no matter what state a person is in by the virture of sin - Jesus has taken care of that, for all people. It's just up to them if they desire to incorporate him into their life or not and to go with access to Yahavah, whom becomes our Father. You will never be able to fix people, but you can love them, and encourage them towards the LORD, and you can also shun away evil desires, or come ups like gossipping or downgrading other individuals, etc... Yahavah can do a lot by the holy spirit which is of Him, and the spirit of Christ which also indwells you as a believer.

There are people who are in poorer condition than some, as well just to mention - They can't read, or They can't hear by the physical aspects of restrictions that come by accident or from birth. Yahavah made some of them this way, the blind, lame, and mute.

 

[St. SteVen]

I would say if you are questioning because you want to understand before accepting..( say a jump from Islam, or Jewish, or RCC to Protestant) I do not see unbelief in that.

However if you are questioning because you have developed some doubt then I would say that can and will lead to unbelief.

Perhaps it wasn't clear from the question, but I meant someone who is already a believer.
And it could be at any stage in their development. A lot can happen to a person's beliefs over the decades of time.
Do you remember this topic? (title is a link)

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

/

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not to jump into the middle of this but there are a couple of things I want to know.

You say "quest of knowledge is the oldest trick that Satan uses to deceive."

Then please explain what is meant by 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV... not my first choice)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

or 2 Timothy 3:14
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Do you think that the author of 2 Timothy was under Satanic influence?

I freely admit to studying and searching out "unfamiliar" things so when you brought up YLT and suggested he had been excommunicated..

I, Being unfamiliar with YLT , did a mini... not deep dive to know something about this translation and
boy.... first thing out of the gate came Ellen G Whites writing on Youngs Literal Translation where she wrote...
" DescriptionYoung's Literal Translation of the Bible is fundamentally different from other, more common translations in that the YLT aims for strict adherence to the literal meaning of the original Hebrew or Greek text. Therefore, for example, many passages are written in present tense where traditional versions would be past tense. Originally published in 1862, the most recent revision was made in 1898, after Young's death."

Coming from Mrs White is a big red flag to me but I trudged on....

And in my curiosity I looked at how he wrote Gen 1:1 to see the difference.... There is major hic cup here because he wrote...

1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

then Gen 2: 3

3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.

then 2 Tim 2:15 where he wrote

15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God -- a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;

And Mark 6:16 16 he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.

I will finish by posting what Got Questions says.


Young’s Literal Translation of the Bible was first translated in 1862 by Robert Young, a Scottish publisher who was self-taught and proficient in various ancient languages. Young also compiled Young’s Analytical Concordance and Concise Critical Comments on the New Testament. A revised version of the YLT was published in 1887 and a new revised version in 1898, a year after Young’s death.

Young’s Literal Translation - Translation method
Young’s Literal Translation is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. Young was especially concerned that many English translations changed the tenses of Greek and Hebrew verbs, and he insisted on using the present tense in many places in which other translations use the past tense, particularly in narratives. Young’s Literal Translation also consistently renders the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (divine name) throughout the Old Testament as "Jehovah," instead of the traditional practice of representing the Tetragrammaton in English as "LORD" in all capitals.

Young’s Literal Translation - Pros and Cons
Young’s Literal Translation is very fitly named. It very likely is the most strictly literal English translation ever developed. The literal renderings of the verb tenses are especially unique and can be quite valuable in studying God’s Word. Aspects that are usually only clear to those who can study the original Greek are clarified in the YLT. The strictly literal translation method can make Young’s Literal Translation somewhat difficult to read and in some instances very unnatural sounding in English.

Young’s Literal Translation - Sample Verses
John 1:1, 14 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;” “And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.”

John 3:16 – “for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.”

John 8:58 – “Jesus said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming -- I am;'”

Ephesians 2:8-9 – “by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift, not of works, that no one may boast;”

Titus 2:13 – “waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,”

Okay... carry on... View attachment 42588

thanks for hearing me out.

Whoops I meant the CLV not the YLT - I apologise for the confusion.

 

[MatthewG]

To me its important to read and establish a round about understanding of the bible. There is no stance to stand on when it comes to sola scriptura, as that never works out for anyone. In the in end it comes down to ones own heart. To Love, Yahavah first before all else, and to love your neighbor as yourself, sometimes telling the truth can cause hurt, however it could be a benefit. What we are never to do is use the book as a Law book, in order to correct others behaviors and go around like we are gods to judge. In the end, no matter what state a person is in by the virture of sin - Jesus has taken care of that, for all people. It's just up to them if they desire to incorporate him into their life or not and to go with access to Yahavah, whom becomes our Father. You will never be able to fix people, but you can love them, and encourage them towards the LORD, and you can also shun away evil desires, or come ups like gossipping or downgrading other individuals, etc... Yahavah can do a lot by the holy spirit which is of Him, and the spirit of Christ which also indwells you as a believer.

There are people who are in poorer condition than some, as well just to mention - They can't read, or They can't hear by the physical aspects of restrictions that come by accident or from birth. Yahavah made some of them this way, the blind, lame, and mute.

Exodus 4:11
The LORD said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

 

[St. SteVen]

The first temptation was to seek knowledge against God's advice.

I thought the first temptation was for Adam to lie to his wife about what God said. - LOL

"... and don't even touch it!" (the forbidden fruit)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Whoops I meant the CLV not the YLT - I apologise for the confusion.

Good thing.
We would have missed out on a fabulous education about the YLT.

/ @Rella

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Whoops I meant the CLV not the YLT - I apologise for the confusion.

Hmmm, I just might be getting too old for this.

Well.. I'll just have to go check it out.

 

[Hillsage]

View attachment 42633 Hmmm, I just might be getting too old for this.

Well.. I'll just have to go check it out.

I also have a copy of the CLT. It does a good job of cleaning up a lot of the twisting of the modern translations. It's claim to fame is that it consistently used the same English word for the same Greek word. Not like I pointed out how the KJV disagreed with all the modern translations and translating the word AION or its Adjective form AIONIOS back and forth to protect the doctrine of "ETERNAL HELL". Interesting enough, there isn't a translation I have ever found, that has those two words "eternal hell" 'together', anywhere in the entire bible. But, the mouths of those who believe that way!!!! Yep, you'd swear it's in there from Genesis to Revelation.

The original 'church' came from the EAST. The church of ROME came from the WEST. And that church is the source of many false doctrines. Martin Luther just nailed 97 problems on the church door. And they tried to kill him too, as a heretic.

On July 16, 1054, Patriarch of Constantinople Michael Cerularius was excommunicated, starting the “Great Schism” that created the two largest denominations in Christianity—the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths.

As you can see, being excommunicated by the denominations of the WEST and ROME doesn't prove a thing as to who is right or wrong. ROMAN government and ROMAN church forged an untruthful hideous political/religious structure a long time ago. And they killed many true believers for being heretics. Known now to have really been 'true' martyrs for the Christian faith.

Why did the 'original church' split from the church of ROME? Several reasons and one was a 'different take' on Hell. I was talking to a friend and Christian brother in our small community about how I couldn't find a church in town that doesn't believe in eternal hell. He said; "Our EASTERN Orthodox church doesn't believe in it." We had a discussion for sure.

Many who think they have "studied to show themselves approved", only prove that they really just "fully indoctrinated". I know I WAS.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I also have a copy of the CLT. It does a good job of cleaning up a lot of the twisting of the modern translations. It's claim to fame is that it consistently used the same English word for the same Greek word. Not like I pointed out how the KJV disagreed with all the modern translations and translating the word AION or its Adjective form AIONIOS back and forth to protect the doctrine of "ETERNAL HELL". Interesting enough, there isn't a translation I have ever found, that has those two words "eternal hell" 'together', anywhere in the entire bible. But, the mouths of those who believe that way!!!! Yep, you'd swear it's in there from Genesis to Revelation.

The original 'church' came from the EAST. The church of ROME came from the WEST. And that church is the source of many false doctrines. Martin Luther just nailed 97 problems on the church door. And they tried to kill him too, as a heretic.

On July 16, 1054, Patriarch of Constantinople Michael Cerularius was excommunicated, starting the “Great Schism” that created the two largest denominations in Christianity—the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths.

As you can see, being excommunicated by the denominations of the WEST and ROME doesn't prove a thing as to who is right or wrong. ROMAN government and ROMAN church forged an untruthful hideous political/religious structure a long time ago. And they killed many true believers for being heretics. Known now to have really been 'true' martyrs for the Christian faith.

Why did the 'original church' split from the church of ROME? Several reasons and one was a 'different take' on Hell. I was talking to a friend and Christian brother in our small community about how I couldn't find a church in town that doesn't believe in eternal hell. He said; "Our EASTERN Orthodo" x church doesn't believe in it." We had a discussion for sure.

Many who think they have "studied to show themselves approved", only prove that they really just "fully indoctrinated". I know I WAS.

But the idea of Eternal Hell has been concluded from verses such as

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; "– Matthew 25:41

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” – Matthew 25:46

which are from NASB95.... ( MY go to.)

And even from

just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. - Jude 1:7

So while the actual words Eternal Hell are e not in scripture, the indication is. (There are more but this is enough, I think)

 

[Carl Emerson]

But the idea of Eternal Hell has been concluded from verses such as


which are from NASB95.... ( MY go to.)

And even from


So while the actual words Eternal Hell are e not in scripture, the indication is. (There are more but this is enough, I think)

You are not too old for this...

 

[Behold]

In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.

I'll contend that if a so called "believer" does not love the word of God (The Bible) then you neither know the author, nor love the author.

Jesus and all the Apostles and every great man/woman of God, were bible believers who LOVED the word of God.

LOVED IT, and still do.

Every Great Revival in this world starts and started with the word of God.

Every CHRISTian was begotten by the word of God , that is the living Seed of Salvation.

The Protestant Reformation was called, was started, was birthed, by a BIBLE BELIEVER who would not bow the knee to the "dark age cult of mary".... who changed (subverted) the word of God to fit their man made religion.

The Bible, the word of God says that God exalts the word (Bible) above His own name.

So....When you find someone who is trying to discredit the bible, especially on a Forum or from a Pulpit... by whatever means they are trying to do it, then you have found yourself a certified devil.

Believe it.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

You are not too old for this...

Thank you kind sir.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible, the word of God says that God exalts the word (Bible) above His own name.

Scripture please?

I suspect the reference is to the Eternal stream of Words that proceed from His mouth that sustains all life - not the Book as an object.

 

[Behold]

Scripture please?

I suspect the reference is to the Eternal stream of Words that proceed from His mouth that sustains all life - not the Book as an object.

What you "suspect" is not what i posted.

Here you go.
I'll post it from a few different versions for you.


"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, And give thanks unto thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: For tho hast magnified thy word above all thy name"


"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.""

"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, and give thanks unto thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.""""

It might also interest a real bible student to know that the longest Chapter in the entire bible, deals with the "word", and that is Psalm 119.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What you "suspect" is not what i posted.

Here you go.
I'll post it from a few different versions for you.


"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, And give thanks unto thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: For tho hast magnified thy word above all thy name"


"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.""

"""I will worship toward thy holy temple, and give thanks unto thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.""""

It might also interest a real bible student to know that the longest Chapter in the entire bible, deals with the "word", and that is Psalm 119.

Maybe you didn't understand me...

All I am saying is that the Word referenced in these verses is not a 'Book' it is the Words that have ever proceeded and continue from His throne in eternity that sustain all life and law in the universe.

 

[Behold]

All I am saying is that the Word referenced in these verses is not a 'Book'

Yet its found in a book. And because its found in a Book, we are able to read it.

This is God preserving His word for us.

Which word?

A.) The Holy Bible

Also,

Jesus read from a Book. (Torah)

Moses Law is a "Book"., (5).

The word of God is a Book. Its called a "Holy Bible', and not a greek text.

The Holy Bible is a Sacred and Holy Book that contains the word of God.

The word of God (words in a Bible) are esteemed by God, "above His name". ( I showed you the verse ).

The Bible is a Spiritual Book of Light that is authored by "God who is A Spirit" , but its written down by men, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
its discerned exactly the same way, or not at all.

This Book, is Sacred, its Holy, Its ALIVE, because it contains the word of God "that endures forever".

@Carl Emerson .... If Jesus tarries for 50 more years, you'll be dead and i'll be dead, and the Holy Bible will still be Alive.

Reader... Jesus is not going to tarry for 50 more years.
No worries.
>Rejoice..

 

[Hillsage]

But the idea of Eternal Hell has been concluded from verses such as

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; "– Matthew 25:41

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” – Matthew 25:46

which are from NASB95.... ( MY go to.)So while the actual words Eternal Hell are e not in scripture, the indication is. (There are more but this is enough, I think)

Rella, the problem is what do you do with the 100 different bible translations which don't have the word HELL in them ONE TIME?

Below is a chart taken from the URL. It only list 28 that don't even have the word in them. If you really want to know the truth, you are going to have to study more, that's all there is to it. I'm just going to post this one chart from that website.

Just look at how many times it was in the original KJV....54 times, then in the NKJV it droped to 32. All the newer translations most study today have the word HELL in them 11,12,13 times.

Was Hell in the Original Bible (the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament)?

TIMES THE WORD "HELL" APPEARS IN THE BIBLE	OT	NT	Total
"Authorized" King James Version (KJV)	31	23	54
New King James Version (NKJV)	19	13	32
New International Version (NIV) the best-selling English Bible	0	13	13
American Standard Version (ASV)	0	13	13
New American Standard Bible (NASB)	0	13	13
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) Southern Baptist	0	11	11
Revised Standard Version (RSV)	0	12	12
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)	0	12	12
Revised English Bible (REB)	0	13	13
New Living Translation (NLT)	0	13	13
Amplified Bible (AMP)	0	13	13
Darby	0	12	12
New Century Version (NCV)	0	12	12
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic	0	0	0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)	0	0	0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)	0	0	0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)	0	0	0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)	0	0	0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)	0	0	0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)	0	0	0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)	0	0	0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)	0	0	0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)	0	0	0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)	0	0	0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)	0	0	0
Western N.T. (1926)	0	0	0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)	0	0	0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)	0	0	0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)	0	0	0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)	0	0	0
New American Bible (1970)	0	0	0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)	0	0	0
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)	0	0	0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)	0	0	0
Christian Bible (1991)	0	0	0
World English Bible (in progress)	0	0	0
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]	0	0	0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)	0	0	0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**	0	0	0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**	0	0	0
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)	0	0	0

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yet its found in a book. And because its found in a Book, we are able to read it.

But we can't receive His Word from a book unless our hearts are open and His Spirit gives understanding.

 

[Spyder]

I'll contend that if a so called "believer" does not love the word of God (The Bible) then you neither know the author, nor love the author.

Jesus and all the Apostles and every great man/woman of God, were bible believers who LOVED the word of God.

LOVED IT, and still do.

Every Great Revival in this world starts and started with the word of God.

Every CHRISTian was begotten by the word of God , that is the living Seed of Salvation.

The Protestant Reformation was called, was started, was birthed, by a BIBLE BELIEVER who would not bow the knee to the "dark age cult of mary".... who changed (subverted) the word of God to fit their man made religion.

The Bible, the word of God says that God exalts the word (Bible) above His own name.

So....When you find someone who is trying to discredit the bible, especially on a Forum or from a Pulpit... by whatever means they are trying to do it, then you have found yourself a certified devil.

Believe it.

Ps 138:2 I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. ESV

I don't think that the author was going to bow down to the Tanach or Torah. God never wanted us to worship the created thing rather than the Creator.