Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[MatthewG]

No

Jesus said when you see IT STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.

for once. Take Jesus at his word..

5 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)

He also said, whoever reads let HIM understand,,

He was talking about people who would later read these words..

Do you understand what it means? I would like to hear your explanation.

1 war?

Yet according to you he did lie.

I am just stating what was said. Yes we know you are set in your belief..

So why are you calling Jesus a liar then?

I will believe the word.. He is still coming just like he said he was

You can continue to think he already came. But then I will wonder why he has not done what he promised he would do when he returns.

Okay. I’m okay with being seen as a liar and no good, and continue to support the message Jesus spoke of in that day… to that generation which is 40 years. I base it off a verse in numbers.


Numbers 32:13 And the Lord’S anger was kindled against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was consumed.

@Eternally Grateful it was nice to be able to converse with you on this topic, considering you are someone whom believes there is still a future return. I can accept that and you as a human being and continue on life moving forward by the spirit in faith, and in love, despite our differing views. Is that a good thing to consider does one of us being right make a difference in who is a follower of Yeshua? It brings a differing world view but that is about it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you understand what it means? I would like to hear your explanation.

what it means to stand in a holy place?

it means there is a holy place has an object standing inside of it..

An abomination of desolation.

In the origional language, an abomination is an idol. or an unclean thing. (an example would be a Pig)

Makes desolate means it is made unclean.

we have an example of it, when Antioch epiphanies slaughtered a pic in the holy place. which made the holy place desolate and caused sacrifice and burnt offering to cease.

Okay. I’m okay with being seen as a liar and no good, and continue to support the message Jesus spoke of in that day… to that generation which is 40 years. I base it off a verse in numbers.

But you have to base it off everything that is said. Not just a few verses.

Numbers 32:13 And the Lord’S anger was kindled against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was consumed.

Yes,

That generation that is alive when they see the abomination of desolation and all those things Jesus spoke of.. They will know. becayse they have read what Jesus said.

@Eternally Grateful it was nice to be able to converse with you on this topic, considering you are someone whom believes there is still a future return. I can accept that and you as a human being and continue on life moving forward by the spirit in faith, and in love, despite our differing views. Is that a good thing to consider does one of us being right make a difference in who is a follower of Yeshua? It brings a differing world view but that is about it.

Yes,

 

[Behold]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

1.) Within Christianity, there is Truth, and there is what isn't.
Both exist in Christianity as Light and Darkness.

Regarding church doctrine and The Gospel, there is what Paul teaches and then there is everything else.

So, in both cases, the "other stuff", that is not the Truth, comes from the Father of Lies.

Reader,
God created Christianity, and Satan created everything else that tries to copy it or tries to ruin it, which is the same work.


The simple fact is.... the devil wants to lead everyone to hell... and he cant do that to a born again believer who is "one with God" already.... born again.

So what does Satan try to do to the born again?
He goes back to "garden of eden" tactics, where he originally ruined the family of God.
How does He do it today?
He twists God's words and teaches them as deception, as before.. And by doing that = within Christianity, (often using deceived Christians).... most end up with broken faith, and become quite self righteous.

See, Satan can't keep you out of heaven if you are born again, but, he can ruin your relationship with God down here... simply by getting you into wrong belief.

This worst of this, is to no longer believe that Jesus keeps you saved, and then you try to do it.
Thats Legalism on Steroids. Thats penultimate Self Righteousness.
Because = that broken faith denies the Cross, rejects Gods Grace, and certifies you as a deceived believer, or what i call a : self saver.


2.) When did Satan bring wrong theology and wrong understanding into the Church, so that many end up with broken faith.?

= OSAS, is the "modern version" nomenclature of this situation that you are asking about. @MatthewG

It actually originated as a "religious Jews" personal attack against the Apostle Paul's Teaching , regarding "The Gospel of the Grace of God".

These Legalistic Jews, who are still in Israel, who still reject their messiah till this very day..., originally rejected Paul's teaching on the GRACE of God about 2000 yrs ago.
And its still being rejected by Religious Legalists, by Cult members, and on "christian" Forums and from "christian" pulpits, as millions are taught how to reject God's Grace by their Church or Temple... and by their Pope or by their Minister, Pastor, Bishop, or similar "head" of their local assembly.
On Some Forums the Mods themselves will try to lead you out of God's Grace and into Legalism. Into their Gospel of Works and self effort.
They'll cover up the Cross with Law and Commandment keeping. And water Baptism, and "confessing sin".

2000 yrs ago, the Religious Jews, led of the devil.... heard Paul's teaching and said.....>"you are teaching that we are to sin, so that Grace will come".

Today this is known as "osas" and "License to sin"...

Reader.... Paul told them..... = "Jesus is not only your Messiah, He is also your Eternal Sin Bearer, because Christ The Lord is the God sent Son whom God made to be all your Sin"".
And they lost their religious minds and still do till this very day, because they want to Keep Law and Commandments, instead of allowing Their Messiah to make them acceptable to God, based on HIS Cross.
And that is the only WAY to heaven. John 14:6

Reader... = God accepts only what HE PROVIDED as our Salvation, to save us and keep us saved.

A.) THE Cross of Christ

Religious people, believe otherwise. And they will tell you...>"if you believe that God does it all, and supplied it all and its The GIFT of Salvation, then you are teaching OSAS, and License to Sin".

And when that is taught, .. JUDE explains that this is a literal subversion of the True Gospel. Because real faith is being bastardized and besmurched and FLIPED upside down, like this... = "If you believe the Gospel and teach it as God's Gift of Salvation, you are teaching licentiousness".
You are teaching that Grace is LICENSE TO SIN.

3.) See what the Devil has done?
He causes believers to stop believing that Christ is their All and All Salvation, by casting the idea upon it as.... to believe THAT, is to "believe that you have license to sin"...thus the Correct understanding of God's Grace is twisted into.. "license to sin".
So, by denying that Jesus is our Salvation.....beginning to end... Satan and his MINISTERS.... then subvert it further by teaching that to believe God's Grace as The finished work of Christ on the Cross, Which is Paul's Gospel.... If you believe it and teach it ......then you are teaching that one you have this Eternal Salvation, and you can never lose it.

The end result is, that once you are mind trapped by these people, then you will believe you can lose your Salvation.
And once you believe that, its because you do not trust in CHRIST anymore, and that is what you are doing this and keeping that, and confessing those, as that is how you are trying to STAY SAVED, ..when in fact....= only JESUS SAVES.

See the issue?
See what they've done to you, if im talking to you?
That's the DEVIL's work and it has you under its spell.

So, the "OSAS" concept which is the modern religious "bumper sticker"... is actually a 2000 yr old attack against The Cross of Christ which is a total rejection of "The Gospel of the Grace of God".

Its the Devil's REBRANDING and SUBVERTING of God's Grace as : "license to sin" and "osas".

Satan's ministers get people caught up in this by using their self righteousness against them, and once they become blinded this way, they can't hear anymore = anything that has to do with GRACE and the FREE Gift of Salvaiton, as to them, all that stuff is "license to sin". and "osas".
See that Reader? That is a developed "STRONGHOLD" in the mind.

Jude teaches about this also.. and said that these hyper religious came into the local assemblies, and harmed them by teaching that if you believe that the Cross is God's redemption, that forgives ALL your sin, then you are teaching that you can go and enjoy your sin.
= So that is a denial that Jesus is the one time "eternal sacrifice for your sin". In other words its to completely not understand what Christ has done for you through His BLOOD, DEATH, and Resurrection.
Today we hear this out of the mouth's of religious lawkeepers and those who are "commandment obsessed" and even those who teach "enduring to the end".
You will find that these people on forums will obsessively talk about law and sin and confessing sin. They will talk about water baptism as Salvation, also.

4.) So, what these people do to you, is they try to make you SEE God's Grace as "freedom to sin" and once they have your mind, you wont be able to trust in Christ to get you into heaven, and you'll believe that you have to do things to keeps yourself saved.

And when you become that one, then your faith is broken, and the Devil has your mind, regarding your belief system.

You wont understand The Cross, and if you are born again, your entire Christianity becomes a BONDAGE to..."what you must DO".. "how you must perform".. and '"what you need to KEEP"<... So that by all your self effort... You will try to offer this self righteousness to God and HOPE that He'll take it and save you., and keep you saved.

See that? That is the Devil's #1 priority in your life, other than killing you and your family. He wants your faith completely ruined so that he can then use you like a hand puppet to teach this same demonic theology that is "license to sin" and "osas".

5.) Reader,
The Cross of Christ is a complete DENIAL that GOD Almighty will accept any self righteousness, or works, or water baptism, to forgive us, or keep us.

And a deceived believer says...
""""well, im confessing my sin again and again and again, because i dont understand that one verse in John, and so, what i believe is that if keep doing that, God will keep forgiving me, but if i dont then...... HELL AWAITS".
Some even do it because they believe..>"well, when i sin, i lost my salvation, and once i confess, i get it back"..
Today, Herbert was lost and saved 135 times, (135 porn downloads he had to confess).... according to his sin vs confession ratio.

Reader .. Broken Salvation is also this... = "sin, confess, and repeat".... because some devil led heretic on a forum or in a pulpit, who probably isn't even born again, told me that this is what i can EXPECT and must DO... to stay saved.

So, the people who yell about "OSAS", are the very people who do not understand that = "God hath made Jesus to be SIN FOR US".

And they do not understand...>>"Jesus is the ONE.. TIME.. = ETERAL.. sacrifice for Sin"..

So, what they do, is try to keep law commandments and they often falsely believe that water washed away their sin, and some of them are confessing sin to try to stay saved or to be re-saved and re-forgiven"... and others are trying to do "works of righteousness" to try to be saved and stay saved.
Reader are you "enduring to the end" to try to keep yourself saved?

Trust in Christ, instead....

Now....See all that, that they BELIEVE in, = that they BELIEVE God will accept to accept them and keep them? And All of them obsess about OSAS and confessing sin..
Spot them, recognize them, and do not listen to what they teach, as they are dark lights.

Luke 11:35

And if you listen, you will notice what is not a part of their trying to be saved or stay saved, theology.
What is missing?

A.) The CROSS of Christ.

Its missing from their "how to stay saved" theology.... and it's missing because they are not saved, or they are "fallen from Grace' and so very deceived that they can't even talk about the Cross as God has provided it, as their Salvation.
They can only deny it as.... "license to sin" and "OSAS".

 

[MatthewG]

@Eternally Grateful thank you for sharing the information and questions. If Yahavah and his 40 years of allowing a generation to die off is not significant, to me it is, to which Jesus spoke of that then generation he was standing in. That is why I believe within 40 years he came. What you expect to happen is beyond my own knowing. All I do understand is that we live in a new world today, with Jesus as the administrator, and not the old covenant law which was the way the world “arrangement” was ran, via Israel.

I believe we moved passed those old times and things are now new because of the spirit.

That’s all I have to share left to give.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful thank you for sharing the information and questions. If Yahavah and his 40 years of allowing a generation to die off is not significant, to me it is, to which Jesus spoke of that then generation he was standing in. That is why I believe within 40 years he came. What you expect to happen is beyond my own knowing. All I do understand is that we live in a new world today, with Jesus as the administrator, and not the old covenant law which was the way the world “arrangement” was ran, via Israel.

I believe we moved passed those old times and things are now new because of the spirit.

That’s all I have to share left to give.

what happened when he came? And how do we know he came?

and when did all the stuff Jesus said would happen happen?

Do you believe Jesus is ruling with a rod of Iron today?

 

[MatthewG]

what happened when he came? And how do we know he came?

and when did all the stuff Jesus said would happen happen?

Do you believe Jesus is ruling with a rod of Iron today?

I’m not gonna be able to help you understand. These are things you need to consider for yourself along with Yahavah, to help by the spirit to make sense of the things one’s reads in the Bible.

It’s not a cop out to not answer your questions it’s just my answers are gonna go with more questions and so on and so forth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m not gonna be able to help you understand. These are things you need to consider for yourself along with Yahavah, to help by the spirit to make sense of the things one’s reads in the Bible.

It’s not a cop out to not answer your questions it’s just my answers are gonna go with more questions and so on and so forth.

but I do understand

its prety rude of you to say I need to consider myself.. then say you are not even going to try to help me (Of course you can’t)

You’re right, it is not a cop out. It is just a deflection.

I will just keep on posting so that others can see what God is really saying or said.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Then Jesus was lying to his disciples who he explained to openly. You suppose that Jesus is wrong, if that is the case.

What if it is you who are wrong?

 

[MatthewG]

but I do understand

its prety rude of you to say I need to consider myself.. then say you are not even going to try to help me (Of course you can’t)

You’re right, it is not a cop out. It is just a deflection.

I will just keep on posting so that others can see what God is really saying or said.

No it’s something people individually need to seek out for themselves. Whether one does that or not, is not on me, personally. You may continue to do whatever you want to. It’s not that I wouldn’t love for you to understand, it’s gonna take you to consider what’s written in the Bible contextually.


But I can’t force your head, in a book, with a gun to your head. That’s just insensitive, and cold. Thus trying to encourage you to go seek you see it as being rude. It’s fine.

It would be good just not to put me into anymore situations of quoting me and then quoting the Bible at me, cause for me I’ve told you I can’t help you. Only God can open people’s eyes to truth, whether or not they decide to seek for it is not my call.

I have offered up several people to check out, to read on, but dismissing them just makes me believe you are someone who may not desire to go any further than where they currently standing, but what do I know? I’m just a liar, rude, a no good for the most part.

It’s been good to converse, for the most part but hell we can’t even see each others face or hear voice, only words on a screen.

 

[MatthewG]

What if it is you who are wrong?

Then I guess I need to get prepared and be pure, blameless and spotless, patiently waiting and watching for his return.

While many people suggest I am wrong, I continue to suggest Jesus was indeed not wrong, and he was not a liar.

People have become knocked around by the traditions of man… most people hold the tradition that Jesus is still coming…

I did read this book, by a preacher who use to preach Jesus was still coming, and then he questioned why he had not come, yet after all the years of preaching realizing he made a mistake…

Amazon.com

 

[JunChosen]

I did read this book, by a preacher who use to preach Jesus was still coming, and then he questioned why he had not come, yet after all the years of preaching realizing he made a mistake…

Which book would you rather trust, a book written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, or a book written by a natural man??

To God Be The Glory

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No it’s something people individually need to seek out for themselves. Whether one does that or not, is not on me, personally. You may continue to do whatever you want to. It’s not that I wouldn’t love for you to understand, it’s gonna take you to consider what’s written in the Bible contextually.

See this is where your arrogance comes through. You assume your right, and you keep trying to tell me that I need to understand it.

I DO UNDERSTAND IT.. You continually trying to tell me I do not does not change that fact.

But I can’t force your head, in a book, with a gun to your head. That’s just insensitive, and cold. Thus trying to encourage you to go seek you see it as being rude. It’s fine.

Yet that is what you prety much do with every post. Thats why I push on you so hard. You continue to do this, but when I ask you questions you refuse to answer (because you can;t0 and then keep coming back with words like this.

It would be good just not to put me into anymore situations of quoting me and then quoting the Bible at me, cause for me I’ve told you I can’t help you.

Well you could by proving me wrong. By showing me all the wars and rumors of wars. the nation rising against nation. the great tribulation so severe no flesh would survive, the abomination of desolation etc etc. But you can't

so in affect. You show me no reason to even consider your view.

Only God can open people’s eyes to truth, whether or not they decide to seek for it is not my call.

I pray he opens your eyes. to not only how you are talking to others. but how you are in error when it comes to this topic. as well as eternal security (or as you call it OSAS)

I have offered up several people to check out, to read on, but dismissing them just makes me believe you are someone who may not desire to go any further than where they currently standing, but what do I know? I’m just a liar, rude, a no good for the most part.

lol. They would not change my view,,

It’s been good to converse, for the most part but hell we can’t even see each others face or hear voice, only words on a screen.

No, What we hear is you continually telling me how wrong I am and how god needs to open my eyes.

I just shared with you what I believe and why I believe it and even used scripture..

 

[MatthewG]

Which book would you rather believe, a book written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, or a book written by a natural man??

To God Be The Glory

Probably men who wrote inspired by the spirit to help people to become ensconced in truth…

There are Christian writers out there, who write about subject and topics within, and go into the Greek wording, and try to help people.

Is that Christ in them? God allowed the man to be able to create a book on a subject he was passionate about. Was he wrong?

You would have to read it to find out.

Some people suggest you can’t use other people’s words, or works. You have to be strictly Bible! If that is case, throw out the Holy Spirit too?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then I guess I need to get prepared and be pure, blameless and spotless, patiently waiting and watching for his return.

While many people suggest I am wrong, I continue to suggest Jesus was indeed not wrong, and he was not a liar.

People have become knocked around by the traditions of man… most people hold the tradition that Jesus is still coming…

I did read this book, by a preacher who use to preach Jesus was still coming, and then he questioned why he had not come, yet after all the years of preaching realizing he made a mistake…

Amazon.com

View attachment 43150

He was not wrong

But in your belief, you make him wrong

Your the one causing Jesus to be a lair, not us.

Why can;'t you just use the word of God.. why should we read a secular book, which would not prove you right anyway?

 

[MatthewG]

@Eternally Grateful ive had enough. I told you already to stop quoting me. I will just put on ignore. It’s simple. You’re just being in your flesh currently and not the spirit, in my opinion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Probably men who wrote inspired by the spirit to help people to become ensconced in truth…

There are Christian writers out there, who write about subject and topics within, and go into the Greek wording, and try to help people.

Is that Christ in them? God allowed the man to be able to create a book on a subject he was passionate about. Was he wrong?

Some people suggest you can’t use other people’s words, or works. You have to be strictly Bible! If that is case, throw out the Holy Spirit too?

Only scripture is inspired

Christian authors write what they think God says.. They all have their opinions, and you can find books that support almost every opinion out there..

Which is why it is better to stick to the word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful ive had enough. I told you already to stop quoting me. I will just put on ignore. It’s simple. You’re just being in your flesh currently and not the spirit, in my opinion.

Dude, Your the one attacking me,

If you do not want people to respond to you STOP ATTACKING THEM..

I have had enough of you telling me how wrong I am and how blind I am.\

practice what you preach my friend..

 

[MatthewG]

@Eternally Grateful please stop. Thank you.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s all for the LORD, Yahavah. I don’t in the end care what you think of me, personally on an Internet forum board.

I just share information. People can be skeptical, or seek out information for themselves to find out and test all things and hold on to what is good.

Fighting and bickering back and forth is Child’s Play… babes in Christ tend to do this, needing milk rather than meat.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s all for the LORD, Yahavah. I don’t in the end care what you think of me, personally on an Internet forum board.

I just share information. People can be skeptical, or seek out information for themselves to find out and test all things and hold on to what is good.

Fighting and bickering back and forth is Child’s Play… babes in Christ tend to do this, needing milk rather than meat.

you seriously lack understanding of how to have a discussion.

When you have a discussion. You ask questions, and give your view.

And then they ask you questions and ask your view

you then discuss the views

You don't tell people God needs to open their eyes. God needs to show them the truth (your way) , That you would love for them to see the truth (your way) and refuse to answer their questions, and make lame excuses as to why you will not.. then attack them some more.

You bring this onto yourself. this is not the first time you have done this to me. you have done this in the past. and not only me but others also.

You want to act this way, i will come at you. You want me to stop. THEN YOU STOP!!

Admit your error and move on.. or continue to deny you did anything wrong. and it will be pushed on you every time you do it.