Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[mailmandan]

He can;t get out of his own way. His self righteousness and pride exudes inwardly, and not outwardly as he should

Like the pharisee. he pumps his chest. while yelling at those who trust Christ.

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others/looked down on everyone else: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you; this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others/looked down on everyone else: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you; this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Amen,

I still do no think he sees it.

He thinks God made him sinless.

yet he believes he can sin by walking away from god.

so it is still of his own power.

If God truly made him sinless. he would not have any ability to sin by leaving.

contradiction after contradiction

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He thinks first john 1: 8 means past tense

You guys are hilarious.

All warning passages must have special “senses” and alternate meanings in order to keep eternal security valid.

Sad.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You guys are hilarious.

All warning passages must have special “senses” and alternate meanings in order to keep eternal security valid.

Sad.

Your sad.

That you claim you believe in the power of God. yet you reject it.

You also chose when to interpret your way and then scream at us when we do the same. so your also a hypocrite (do as I say not as I do)

Laugh at us all you want.. That's not going to get you anywhere

 

[Marymog]

Some scripture APPLIES to one person but not another…

If scripture is talking to men only, it doesn’t apply to women…

Not true, but if that is what your men have taught you then so be it...

Your "If scripture is talking to men only, it doesn’t apply to women…" statement is bizarre.

 

[Marymog]

When scripture is talking to A BELIEVER…
It doesn’t mean that person IS SAVED…
It means that person is following the teaching of the Lord God, doubting some things, believing some things….YET still Believing in the Lord God.
As that person BELIEVES what he hears, he is given, measures of FAITH from God.

WHILE that person IS BELIEVING…the Spirit of God…IS WITH HIM.

Your statement makes ZERO sense and is contradicting.

If a "person is following the teaching of the Lord God" but still "doubting some things" then they are not "following the teaching of the Lord God".....they would just be learning (reading) the teachings; not following them.

If they are "following the teaching of the Lord God" then they are believing them. If they aren't following the teachings, then they aren't believing them.

You make no sense....but I digress!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you claim you believe in the power of God. yet you reject it.

I’m bewildered to how you came up with that conclusion.

You also chose when to interpret your way

I never “interpret” scripture. I accept scripture as it is plainly written.

You and @mailmandan are the one’s who interpret scripture.

then scream at us when we do the same

lol!

I don’t recall using ALL CAPS when communicating with you guys.

 

[Marymog]

Some scripture APPLIES to one person but not another…

If scripture is talking to men only, it doesn’t apply to women…

When scripture is talking to A BELIEVER…
It doesn’t mean that person IS SAVED…
It means that person is following the teaching of the Lord God, doubting some things, believing some things….YET still Believing in the Lord God.
As that person BELIEVES what he hears, he is given, measures of FAITH from God.

WHILE that person IS BELIEVING…the Spirit of God…IS WITH HIM.

Remember the Israelites..God WITH them…they doubt, disobey…..AND what they were telling God is they DON’T BELIEVE to TRUST Him. And what would happen? They would be on their OWN….God would. NOT be WITH them.

Get it? Men can waver all day long…Believing, Doubting, trusting, wonder, doubt, believe be WITH God, be WITHOUT God….
And when a man IS WITHOUT God…
So also is God NOT WITH THAT man.

Because men CAN waver, they are repeatedly WARNED…Evil spirits lurk, LOOKING for a wavering weak man TO TARGET. Convince them God does not exist, care for them, love them, blah, blah…
There are ALSO powerful wicked men…kings, presidents, governors, teachers, even parents to teach adults and children to forget about God, you are having hardships because of Him…blah, blah…

That man can believe, not believe, believe, not believe….
He has ONLY his own power/strength to keep him in Belief….and plenty of outside evil spirits and wicked men to encourage, even reward them to not believe.

So WHAT can a man DO to BE SECURE IN his belief IN the Lord God, that IT BE constant forever?

Well….DEPEND on a POWER greater than ALL OTHER Powers….AND?
WHO/WHAT would that Be?
Gods HOLY SPIRIT!

Gods Holy Spirit is Gods Power.
Already explained it can be WITH a man, LEAVE a man…

“IF” that man IS ABLE by his own POWER to KEEP believing to the DAY HIS BODY DIES…
THEN, shall his soul be SAVED.

So what did Jesus OFFER?
A WAY for Gods POWER/Holy Spirit to Be…
….IN….a man, and KEEP that man Forever Faithful TO the Lord God….
BEFORE the mans BODY “PHYSICALLY DIES”.

Every man has the OPTION to MAKE the CHOICE for Gods Holy Spirit to BE “WITH-IN” a man that that man CAN NEVER fall from Faith IN the Lord God.

THE WAY….is for an INDIVIDUAL Person to Call on the Lords Name and CONFESS his (TRUE Heartful Belief IN the Lord God).

The WAY…of God is to ACCEPT the mans LIVING SACRIFICE (Promise, vow of his word)….and BE Crucified (ie dead body) WITH Christ….
They have fulfilled the ONE requirement of man that mans BODY MUST DIE.

THEY receive their Baptism of the Holy Spirit, THEN (before physical death)…and FOREVER the Lord God is WITH that man…

Did you not ever learn the difference between Gods Spirit…
“WITH and WITHIN” a person?

And, ONCE AGAIN, you have given your opinion without addressing what we are discussing OR citing Scripture to back up your opinion.

We are discussing your theory that "THAT MAN, no longer relies on his OWN strength to KEEP his FAITH….THAT MAN, has INVITED the POWER of GOD to ENTER HIM and KEEP that man IN FAITH, WITH GOD FOR EVER!"

God does NOT "Keep that man in faith with God FOR EVER [sic]". Col. 1:23 says, IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, you will be saved.

IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. IF you repent (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9) IF you are baptized (Mark 16:16) IF you do good works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24), you will be saved. You can invite Him into your life, and you will be saved IF you do and continue to do all that He tells us to do. IF we fight the good fight and finish the race, we will be saved (2 Timothy 4). Now notice how I have given 8 passages from Scripture to back up what Christianity has taught for 2,000 years and destroy your false teaching? And you? No Scripture, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, just your opinion.

Yes, I have learned the difference between Gods Spirit being with a person and within a person. Gods Spirit is within a person IF they continue to do what He tells us to do. If we do not continue, He is no longer within us. You clearly have not been taught that.....

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinions....Mary

 

[Marymog]

He who began a good work will complete it.

Dear EG,

Your statement is not true. Perhaps you would like to rephrase it?

There have been many men who "began a good work" but didn't complete it. They have fallen. But you know that already so I think there might be some nuance to your statement that I missed.

Scripture makes it clear IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. IF you repent (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9) IF you are baptized (Mark 16:16) IF you do good works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24), you will be saved. IF we fight the good fight and finish the race, we will be saved (2 Timothy 4).

IF we CONTINUE to do all those things, then we will be saved. Scripture NEVER says "He who began a good work WILL complete it" (emphasis added).

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I believe because of Jesus victory, he on the behalf of all people paid for their sins, saves them from death, saves them from Satan, saves them from going to hell.

The only thing that keeps a person from going into the kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem is faithlessness.

Hey Matthew,

We need more than faith to be saved: IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. IF you repent (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9) IF you are baptized (Mark 16:16) IF you do good works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24), you will be saved. IF we fight the good fight and finish the race, we will be saved (2 Timothy 4).

Mary

 

[MatthewG]

Hey Matthew,

We need more than faith to be saved: IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. IF you repent (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9) IF you are baptized (Mark 16:16) IF you do good works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24), you will be saved. IF we fight the good fight and finish the race, we will be saved (2 Timothy 4).

Mary

It comes down to the heart for me, Marymog. Always the heart, and there are many different measures of faith towards God, some not so close, some kind of far off, perhaps some very close than the rest. I believe the heart is moved by God when a person starts to seek him in faith, and in time, they will lay the old life down, and then raise to newness in Christ who makes the whole world new. Would agree that one realize that God is not a God who is far away, he is near and close to the heart, and will listen and hear anyone out whom calls out to him in faith. While today is today though, and we should not let the deceitfulness of sin cause us to becoming unbelieving.

 

[Marymog]

It comes down to the heart for me, Marymog. Always the heart, and there are many different measures of faith towards God, some not so close, some kind of far off, perhaps some very close than the rest. I believe the heart is moved by God when a person starts to seek him in faith, and in time, they will lay the old life down, and then raise to newness in Christ who makes the whole world new. Would agree that one realize that God is not a God who is far away, he is near and close to the heart, and will listen and hear anyone out whom calls out to him in faith. While today is today though, and we should not let the deceitfulness of sin cause us to becoming unbelieving.

Yup, the heart is moved by God when a person starts to seek Him in faith. But He requires MORE from us than the faith in our heart. It takes baptism and repentance (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, Mark 16:16) and works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24).

I suspect if you had any passages from Scripture to back up what you said you would have referenced them. You didn't so you don't.

Keeping it real with Scripture.....Mary

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yup, the heart is moved by God when a person starts to seek Him in faith. But He requires MORE from us than the faith in our heart. It takes baptism and repentance (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, Mark 16:16) and works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24).

I suspect if you had any passages from Scripture to back up what you said you would have referenced them. You didn't so you don't.

Keeping it real with Scripture.....Mary

Work does not save us. Nor is it a condition applied to guarantee we are secure in our Salvation. The implication that it is so, contradicts scripture.

Ephesians 2.

We are saved irrevocably by God's grace.

The idea that eternal security in Christ, eternal salvation, is a myth, has never been sustained by scripture when scripture is honestly reviewed and understood.

Jesus assures us, of all whom God gives him, because as he said, no one comes to him unless the Father leads them to Jesus, Jesus shall lose none. John 6

We are also told those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Those who do make sin a habit are not in Christ and have never known him. 1 John 3

The doctrine of insecurity is not of God.

The notion one must constantly repent, work to achieve grace and salvation, is not a doctrine of God.

The notion one can have their salvation stripped from them, is not of God, because God is not a man that he should lie. Numbers 23.

Nor should God have lied about what is his Good News.

Keeping a church alive through false doctrine does not keep the soul eternally saved and alive in the true, truth, of Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Work does not save us. Nor is it a condition applied to guarantee we are secure in our Salvation. The implication that it is so, contradicts scripture.

“And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:18, KJV)

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12, KJV)


You have been hoodwinked into “eternal security” too I see…

 

[Taken]

Not true, but if that is what your men have taught you then so be it...

Your "If scripture is talking to men only, it doesn’t apply to women…" statement is bizarre.

So when Scripture says…

Eph 5:
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Or
1 Tim 5:
[15] For some are already turned aside after Satan.

It is talking to you About you…?
Thanks for your input!

 

[Taken]

Your statement makes ZERO sense…

No doubt, that is true, it is NOT supposed to make sense to the mindful thinker.

Spiritual understanding is NOT the same as logical mindful understanding.

You make no sense....but I digress!

Thank you.

 

[BlessedPeace]

“And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:18, KJV)

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12, KJV)


You have been hoodwinked into “eternal security” too I see…

You don't understand context in reading scripture, as we all can see.

Your first excerpt sustains Eternal Salvation.

Your second verse excerpt of one of Paul's Epistles to the church in Corinth, per your ideas, would, if in keeping with your theology, make Paul a liar in his Ephesians 2 epistle.

You have been misled. And the scriptures prove this.

 

[Behold]

But He requires MORE from us than the faith in our heart. It takes baptism

The Cross proves that God does not accept water to save you.

In fact, if water and repentance from sin could save you, then Jesus didnt have to die on The Cross.

You could just let John the Baptist hold you under the water.

However, God had another Salvation Plan., and it has nothing to do with Water or Works or Law or Commandments.

Now a "water cult" will disagree, as you know @Marymog

 

[Taken]

And, ONCE AGAIN, you have given your opinion without addressing what we are discussing OR citing Scripture to back up your opinion.

Scripture has been cited umpteen times…
No one is going to read it for you, study it for you or understand it for you.

The Lord God can NOT Lie.
Once He has blessed a man with Sanctification…it’s Done. Period.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The Cross proves that God does not accept water to save you.

In fact, if water and repentance from sin could save you, then Jesus didnt have to die on The Cross.

You could just let John the Baptist hold you under the water.

However, God had another Salvation Plan., and it has nothing to do with Water.

Jesus is the water of life. Baptism through the Holy Spirit is key.

Whereas, establishments that secure themselves as the source for salvation,and insist their doctrine must be obeyed so to secure salvation, are idols.False god's with feet of clay.