From post #47.I run into guys who went from devout Baptist to downright hostile to God.
That's funny. I thought Baptists were "downright hostile to God." - LOL
I mean... the way they talk about him... I would be insulted, wouldn't you?
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From post #47.I run into guys who went from devout Baptist to downright hostile to God.
We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
But, as you know, God is continually saving us, and we are "working out our salvation".
Which does NOT mean that we are saving ourselves, OR that we are not yet saved. IMO
On this point we agree.Jesus Rose from the Dead, to prove He Truly Finished >IT<.... on THE Cross..., and He went to Heaven and "sat down", because our Salvation = (IT) = is completed. ("Finished").
Jesus is Salvation.. and not you trying to do IT...
Understand?
He did IT.., and WE get IT.
= IT's = "the GIFT of Salvation"..
Never doubt?= Believe it., .....and never doubt your Salvation, = who is JESUS......Who "finished it"..., and He succeeded.
Believe IT.
Have to? And keep it? If "your mind is wrong and that can ruin your faith"?To work out your salvation, simply means...= now that you have it, you have to deeply and inwardly learn what you have... and that is to find God's perspective regarding HOW HE views the Born again CHIRSTian... as a "new Creation in Christ".
.........."well behold, how i see that""'... is why you have no clue, some of you.
You have to get GOD's perspective to understand your Salvation........the depths of it...as its DEEP and its AWESOME.
You have to get HIS MIND on that, and keep it... or your mind is wrong and that can ruin your faith.
@Behold is one of characters who is in a Monty Python skit and doesn't know it. As I've said repeatedly, if some of these folks didn't exist I'd have to invent them. Which doesn't mean they aren't wonderful Christians, just that they are so one-dimensionally predictable that they make useful foils. It reminds me of a Monty Python "Shakespeare for Parrots" sketch where everyone was dressed in full Shakespearean finery but all that everyone ever did was cock his or her head and squawk "Hello, hello."On this point we agree.
Never doubt?
Good luck with that.
Any consequences of doubt?
Have to? And keep it? If "your mind is wrong and that can ruin your faith"?
What happened to the finished work of salvation you were just writing about?
Undone by our failure to work out our salvation, or by any doubts?
You seem to have turned the good news into bad news.
Can one slip up on our part really UNDO everything God has done through Christ? (nope)
From the OP:
We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd. - St. SteVen
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LOLone of characters who is in a Monty Python skit and doesn't know it. As I've said repeatedly, if some of these folks didn't exist I'd have to invent them. Which doesn't mean they aren't wonderful Christians, just that they are so one-dimensionally predictable that they make useful foils.
Oh my. I need to find that online. - LOLIt reminds me of a Monty Python "Shakespeare for Parrots" sketch where everyone was dressed in full Shakespearean finery but all that everyone ever did was cock his or her head and squawk "Hello, hello."
Didn't come up on spell-check. Must be real.We O'Darbians are not Eternal Securitists (did I just invent that?).
That's a great point.It simply makes no sense that Harry the Mass Murder receives salvation because he sincerely "accepted Jesus" after being presented with The Four Spiritual Laws at the age of 78 but Amir the faithful fifth-generation Hindu in New Delhi who was once witnessed to for eight minutes by a clumsy, ineffectual Southern Baptist missionarty is going to cook for eternity like a KFC chicken (to borrow @Webers_Home's unintentionally comical imagery). Whatever salvation is all about, it is surely more profound than Eternal Security and probably much more profound than what I describe above.
You can't. I've looked and looked. There is a famous Dead Parrot skit, but Shakespeare for Parrots is nowhere to be found.Oh my. I need to find that online. - LOL
To say that eternal security exists also implies that there might be opposition to the concept, as you state. So, how does scripture teach two different concepts? For either side, on what basis are you determining who is a believer?This is typically discussed under the derogatory term OSAS (once saved always saved)
So, I wanted to present the topic under positive terms.
To me, the comparison is between Eternal Security and Eternal Insecurity. (my own derogatory term)
Those who oppose OSAS (Eternal Security) usually don't realize what they are throwing away.
My position on the subject is as follows. (which I have posted many times on the forum)
We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd. - St. SteVen
I found this list of seven principles online that I thought was pretty good. Source link at the bottom of the page.
There are other presentations available with a lot more items.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
7 Proofs Your Salvation Is Eternally Secure
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no one will snatch them out of my hand. - John 10:28 NIV
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice
of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. - Hebrews 10:10 NIV
When you first believed in Jesus, you were saved.
But after a while, perhaps because you sinned or failed God in some way, maybe you began to question whether it’s possible to lose your salvation.
A genuine believer in the Lord Jesus shouldn’t be tormented by this question.
The Bible tells us that once we believe in Jesus Christ, we can never lose our salvation.
In this post we’ll look at some verses that show seven proofs of our salvation being irreversible and eternally secure.
1. Our salvation was initiated by God
Ephesians 1:4 says:
God chose us before we were born, even before the universe was created.
Then, when the time was right for us to be saved, He called us.
Do you think that God would choose us so long ago, send His Son to die for us,
wait for us to be born, and then call and save us, only to abandon us after we’re finally saved?
No, He would not. God is the One who initiated our salvation
before the foundation of the world and carried it out.
2. God’s love for us is eternal
Jeremiah 31:3 says:
This verse says God loves us with a love that’s eternal.
That means His love is unchanging.
Human love can be fickle, but God’s love never changes;
it doesn’t depend on what we do.
God loves us eternally.
3. God is righteous in saving us
Psalm 89:14 says:
God’s throne is immovable and unshakable because the foundation of His throne is His righteousness.
God’s love motivated Him to save us from eternal judgment. But God’s righteousness is the base of His salvation.
Many fear God’s righteousness and associate it with His wrath. His righteousness is indeed a fearful thing.
Because God is righteous, He cannot tolerate or overlook sin; He’s bound to judge all unrighteousness.
But God’s righteousness is also the base of our salvation, which is truly wonderful.
Let’s see how this is so. Romans 6:23 says:
This means that all who sin must die.
The righteous God has no other choice but to judge sinners and assign them their wages: eternal death.
But the Lord Jesus came and bore the judgment of death for sinners on the cross.
God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice as the full payment for our sins. Just as in a court of law, a judge can’t require
a debt to be paid twice, God is bound by His righteousness to honor the price Christ paid for us.
So if God wants His throne to stand, He must act in accordance with His righteousness.
Since Jesus paid the penalty for our sins by dying in our place,
God’s righteousness won’t allow Him to demand further payment from us.
This means our salvation is secured by God’s righteousness;
He can’t take it away from us. Praise Him for His righteousness!
4. We have become God’s children
John 1:12-13 says:
When we accepted Jesus as our Savior, we were saved from eternal perdition.
But that’s not all. These verses tell us we were also begotten of God to be His children.
This is something that can’t be undone.
We all know that children misbehave from time to time.
But no matter how much they may misbehave, their bad behavior can never negate
the fact that they were born of their parents. Even when children are disciplined,
that discipline doesn’t undo their relationship with their parents.
In the same way, our sins and failures can’t negate the fact that we’re born of God
and are children of God. We may sometimes require God’s discipline,
but we’ll always be God’s children, born of His divine life.
5. God keeps us in His hand
John 10:28-29 says:
All kinds of things may try to snatch us from the Father’s hand—sin, the world,
difficulties, even Satan himself. But in these verses, the Lord Jesus assures us by saying that
it’s impossible for us to be snatched away. No one and nothing is stronger than God.
6. God never changes
Hebrews 13:8 says:
Everything changes: people, circumstances, environments, the weather.
Even our own emotions fluctuate constantly; we can be up one minute and down the next.
But our salvation doesn’t hinge on our feelings. God never changes and neither does His salvation.
7. Christ has promised not to cast us out
John 6:37 says:
What a precious, unconditional promise from our Savior!
He will never cast out or reject those who have come to Him.
We can fully trust in Him and His Word to know our salvation is eternally secure.
So we shouldn’t live our Christian life in constant fear and doubt.
Our salvation is eternally secure, and we can and should trust in the Word of God,
which assures us of this fact.
We encourage you to learn more about this important topic by reading
Basic Elements of the Christian Life, vols. 1-3, a free book set that has helped
thousands of believers. If you’re a US resident, you can order the free three-volume set here.
You can also download them from anywhere in the world here.
Source
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We O'Darbians are not Eternal Securitists (did I just invent that?). We believe, with the Orthodox, that being born again opens the door to salvation. "Faith" is a lifelong process. Whether we continued in faith will be determined when God, if He exists, tells us we did
When I was baptised in water @St. SteVen ...it was a declaration of all of my sins being washed away...then I came up out of the water a new creation in Christ....
I was birthed in the Spirit, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ before I was water baptised...water baptism is in obedience to the Lord.One of the members read your post and believes that you are explaining... .that you were water baptized and trusted in Christ for the first time.... at the exact time you were water baptized.
Is that true?
I was birthed in the Spirit, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ before I was water baptised...water baptism is in obedience to the Lord.
But, as you know, God is continually saving us,
She was a false teacher then ,Behold?Thank you for that clarification.
I was water baptized 11 yrs after i was born again.
I was called into the ministry, before i was water baptized.
When i finally did get WB, it was in a local Church in the States and i used a church's baptism that was not my local church, as my local church in the States, didnt have a Baptism Pool, so we "borrowed" one from another church..
And after it was completed... there was a woman there who who handed me a dry towel, and she whispered to me, as the water was draining out of the Baptism ...
"There Go all your sins......"
As she believes that "water washes your sin away".., as if the Cross of Christ is irrelevant...
Sort of like....>"Well that Cross is fine,..... but just remember that what matters is that water baptism".
There... is a member-mod "Pearl"... here on the forum.... was also water baptized quite a while later after she was born again.
The way i hope it works out for a new believer, is that they get water baptized very soon after they are born again.
.only the Holy Spirit can forgive our sins...
I would ask the question, what does continually saved mean?
As it makes no sense to me, I await an answer,xx
Just had a thought, continually saved could mean ....we are always saved...just a thought.
It works because Jesus had to die and was resurrected, he took the sins of the world....Well, we need to talk about your post, as the Holy Spirit didnt shed His Blood on the Cross.
So, when you make statements, you have to explain what you mean., as we are not talking about scrambling eggs or painting a living room wall.
So, you said that the Holy Spirit forgives sin..
How does that work, as "Jesus came into the world to save sinners".. and the Holy Spirit is the own who leads us to the Cross for that Salvation that Christ's death and blood, provides us, as the Atonement.
So, explain please..
Thx.
She was a false teacher then ,Behold?
Yes, I got water baptised not long after becoming Born Again.....a Born Again would know that though Brother surely?
That water saves no one,xx