The Case for Eternal Security

[Ritajanice]

She is someone who loves Jesus and is born again, but, .. . at some point the Catholic Teaching that is "born again BY Water"... has gotten "tangle up" within her " only Jesus saves"..

It happens to a lot of people.....

Personally, I:don’t believe a Born Again would ever believe that water saves...

A Born Again imo knows 100% they have been Born Of The Spirit, because they received the gift of God given faith as soon as he made their spirit Born Again...Faith is a manifestation of the Spirit as Gods word says.xx

Faith is God given, there is no faith without the witness of the Holy Spirit..witnessing Gods truth to our spirit/ heart....you must receive the Spirit into your heart and only God can decide to do that, as I’ve said, God chooses and predestined his children to believe in Jesus..

 

[Behold]

It works because Jesus had to die and was resurrected, he took the sins of the world....

Yes HE did.

I wasn’t Born Again like you, I was drawn to Jesus by God, I was brought to repentance/ Godly sorrow by God,

You were born again exactly like me.
Exactly like everyone who is truly born again.

God called and you came.
Jesus opened His arms and said 'COME to me" and you did.

We all were drawn to God, and nearly all, had that same sorrow, ... we all had inner eyes opened that way...

Noone is saved by being born again first, so that they can then trust Christ later, by faith, after they are born again.
See that nonsense? That is Brightframe, and that is not true.

See, real repentance isn't ..>"i feel bad about my sinning"..

Real repentance is to feel sorrow for who you are... what you are.... as that is to recognize one's self.. in light of the Cross., in Light of the Gospel.

That is what the law does..
It shows you, what you are...it leads us there... so that we go to the Cross and get that solved by God's forgiveness and mercy..

Real repentance over sin, isnt...."i feel bad that i did that again"...

No.

Real repentance is..>"why am i like this" "how can i be like this".. "what is wrong with me".. "I cant stand myself".. "can anyone help me not be LIKE THIS".. "I hate being like this"..

HELP ME GOD>

A.) The Cross of Christ

Real repentance isn't about being sorry for what you did, .. its about being sorry for what you are....

See that?
That's real repentance.......as that is a "contrite heart"...

Also.

It can be that a person comes to Jesus , being Drawn by God, because God has revealed to them, the wonder and beauty of Jesus.
The entire Spirituality that is Jesus and God and Heaven.....it just becomes so real, and it never was before..
God can get you DRAWN, that way, also.

He has many methods, to get you to go to Jesus.

 

[Behold]

Personally, I:don’t believe a Born Again would ever believe that water saves...

Marymog does., because that is what the Catholic Bible teaches.

That is there John 3..

"Born again.. BY water"


Also...Its difficult to tell on a "blind forum" who is actually saved.

So, what i do is ask them to explain "born again."", And then they go to Google or Wikipedia and come back and post.

Or i ask them why they believe they have to keep confessing sin, if Jesus has died for them all, 2000 yr ago.

Or, ask them, how they were saved..

You'll be surprised when you hear them explain it as....."well, i was reading a bible verse, and the words became light and came into my eyes"..

You heard that "testimony" recently... and that one is posting videos and has never been asked to "take a time out" from this forum in over 12 yrs..

His entire "conversion" was ....

No Cross anywhere
No Jesus anywhere
No forgiveness of sin..
No repentance at all
No Gospel being believed.

In fact He told me the same day he told you about his "eyes" that "" The Cross is not about forgiveness of Sin'..

His testimony was..... "the bible words became light and entered my eyes"..

Which words?
He never told us..
Maybe it was.. "you are of your father devil, and the lusts of your father you will do"..

This "member' never told you what "words" came into His "eyes"..

 

[Ritajanice]

God called and you came.
Jesus opened His arms and said 'COME to me" and you did.

No he didn’t, he opened my heart to receive the rebirth..” Spirit gives birth to spirit “.as I was chosen and predestined to.

Jesus said we must be Born Of The Spirit.

Jesus didn’t open his arms to me and said COME to me, and I did....those are your words they aren’t the words of God,xx

I was Born Again by the Spirit of God...just as his word says...I only understand the Spirit of God witnessing Gods truth to my spirit....that was you witnessing...therefore I couldn’t receive your words into my heart,sorry,xxx

 

[Ritajanice]

Marymog does., because that is what the Catholic Bible teaches.

That is there John 3..

"Born again.. BY water"


Also...Its difficult to tell on a "blind forum" who is actually saved.

So, what i do is ask them to explain "born again."", And then they go to Google or Wikipedia and come back and post.

Or i ask them why they believe they have to keep confessing sin, if Jesus has died for them all, 2000 yr ago.

Or, ask them, how they were saved..

You'll be surprised when you hear them explain it as....."well, i was reading a bible verse, and the words became light and came into my eyes"..

You heard that "testimony" recently... and that one is posting videos and has never been asked to "take a time out" from this forum in over 12 yrs..

His entire "conversion" was ....

No Cross anywhere
No Jesus anywhere
No forgiveness of sin..
No repentance at all
No Gospel being believed.

In fact He told me the same day he told you about his "eyes" that "" The Cross is not about forgiveness of Sin'..

His testimony was..... "the bible words became light and entered my eyes"..

Which words?
He never told us..
Maybe it was.. "you are of your father devil, and the lusts of your father you will do"..

This "member' never told you what "words" came into His "eyes"..

Just keep posting what you believe the Spirit has placed on your heart to post,..as you are an anointed teacher...God will speak through you.xx

As you know I understand a lot of what you teach...some of it I don’t, no worries, we’re still Brother and Sister and always will be..you know I have great respect for you, I see your dedication to God..and all the threads you start, full of Gods word, Praise God for you on the forum,xx..xxx

Love you @Behold ...

 

[Behold]

With respect Brother...we don’t know who is Born Again...SteVen is Born Again...

Ive never stated that anyone here on the Forum... is not born again.
I can tell if i meet them.

So, all i said was... in response to you saying........they need to explain "continuing" .....

= Lets give him a way out. ... and i gave him one..

He has not stated on this Thread that you can lose your salvation, and im happy about this.. actually.

I dont think he'll answer you, as he never replies to anything i ask him.

Most recently, today.... he actually asked me a question, and i gave Him a detailed answer, and he went "silent" again.

.just because his testimony or my testimony doesn’t fit in with what you believe, certainly doesn’t make you right.

I have not heard his testimony.
So, i can't even begin to know.. what that is all about.

And you are not correct when you believe that i have any issue with what you state as your being Drawn to Jesus.

The only place where we can discuss is more is with your idea that God causes faith, and the person is not capable of having it of themselves.

You are telling me and Steven how to be Born Again...please stop it..

You are mistaken...

Ive only explained how Paul says that we receive God's Salvation.

I have not "told steven" or you, how to be born again, as you both claim to be born again..

Stephen said that God continues to save, as a process.., and i ask him to explain "How God does that".

That is not accusing him of not being born again, and its not telling him how to be born again.

He made a statement, and i asked Him to explain it.

'I dont think he will... but, i did ask, and you too are curious about it.. as you said.

So, maybe he will...

God makes our spirit Born Again not you...and I say this in Love...xxx

Oh no worries. @Ritajanice
Not only can't i make someone's spirit born again.....im also a little bit late to the Cross to die for your sins.

But, i'll never stand before Jesus not having tried to help everyone i can, who is hooked on Calvin, or hooked on Mary, or hooked on their theological opinions.

You can believe that.

Steven has even shared his testimony have you read it, I suggest you do. X

Hopefully he does not talk about the bible words turning into light and going into His eyes.

What i'll do, is contact St.Steven, as that is his alt name, and ask him to share the link where he gave his testimony.

If he'll do that, or if you will, i will read it.

And i hope you dont mind if i respond...


Thx.

-B

 

[Ritajanice]

Ive never stated that anyone here on the Forum... is not born again.
I can tell if i meet them.

So, all i said was... in response to you saying........they need to explain "continuing" .....

= Lets give him a way out. ... and i gave him one..

He has not stated on this Thread that you can lose your salvation, and im happy about this.. actually.

I dont think he'll answer you, as he never replies to anything i ask him.

Most recently, today.... he actually asked me a question, and i gave Him a detailed answer, and he went "silent" again.




I have not heard his testimony.
So, i can't even begin to know.. what that is all about.

And you are not correct when you believe that i have any issue with what you state as your being Drawn to Jesus.

The only place where we can discuss is more is with your idea that God causes faith, and the person is not capable of having it of themselves.




You are mistaken...

Ive only explained how Paul says that we receive God's Salvation.

I have not "told steven" or you, how to be born again, as you both claim to be born again..

Stephen said that God continues to save, as a process.., and i ask him to explain "How God does that".

That is not accusing him of not being born again, and its not telling him how to be born again.

He made a statement, and i asked Him to explain it.

'I dont think he will... but, i did ask, and you too are curious about it.. as you said.

So, maybe he will...




Oh no worries. @Ritajanice
Not only can't i make someone's spirit born again.....im also a little bit late to the Cross to die for your sins.

But, i'll never stand before Jesus not having tried to help everyone i can, who is hooked on Calvin, or hooked on Mary, or hooked on their theological opinions.

You can believe that.





Hopefully he does not talk about the bible words turning into light and going into His eyes.

What i'll do, is contact St.Steven, as that is his alt name, and ask him to share the link where he gave his testimony.

If he'll do that, or if you will, i will read it.

And i hope you dont mind if i respond...


Thx.

-B

Ok, thanks for explaining....xxx..

 

[Behold]

Ok, thanks for explaining....xxx..

I just read some of His original Thread.

He's a Calvinist.

He said.>>"before we are born, God chose us, and after we are born Jesus calls us"..

So, that is "pre-destined elect" Calvinism, 100%

And if i said.....

Well, Steven.... if your Mother was not chosen, or if your Father or Children were not chosen, or your Grand Parents were not chosen.. then why would God choose you for Heaven, and choose them ALL to go to Hell.


He'll then say..

"they were all chosen"... as that is how a lying Calvinist is forced to respond when they are HUNG on their Heresy.

See, they will always say that "all my family is/are the ELECT". ..... while they believe that NOT ALL OF YOURS is "chosen".

The actual Root of Calvinism is Pride.

So, Calvinism is a mental Stronghold.... that pretends to be a True Theology, and its one of the Devil's very best heresies, if not the best.
The cult of mary and calvinism, has more people deceived the Islam.

ok then.. i did ask him to link me to his Testimony.. as you requested @Ritajanice

 

[O'Darby]

Ive never stated that anyone here on the Forum... is not born again.
I can tell if i meet them.

Oh, dear ...

But, i'll never stand before Jesus not having tried to help everyone i can, who is hooked on Calvin, or hooked on Mary, or hooked on their theological opinions.

In fact, no need even to meet them if they are hooked on Calvin, Mary or their theological opinions!

Dive in here, @St. SteVen, and rescue your thread!

 

[Ritajanice]

I just read some of His original Thread.

He's a Calvinist.

He said.>>"before we are born, God chose us, and after we are born Jesus calls us"..

So, that is "pre-destined elect" Calvinism, 100%

And if i said.....

Well, Steven.... if your Mother was not chosen, or if your Father or Children were not chosen, or your Grand Parents were not chosen.. then why would God choose you for Heaven, and choose them ALL to go to Hell.


He'll then say..

"they were all chosen"... as that is how a lying Calvinist is forced to respond when they are HUNG on their Heresy.

See, they will always say that "all my family is/are the ELECT". ..... while they believe that NOT ALL OF YOURS is "chosen".

So, Calvinism is a mental Stronghold.... that pretends to be a True Theology, and its one of the Devil's best heresies.

All I can is...you keep preaching the word of God!!!...

You’re the teacher!!..xxx

 

[Behold]

Oh, dear ...

@O'Darby

Today you presented your...... or the "4 spiritual laws" as some sort of Galatians 1:8.

(if you own a bible, you can read that verse). or just search it online.

Why dont you park your self aggrandizing posts and Threads for a moment and explain to the readers you "4 spiritual Laws" that you claimed that someone would Believe......

 

[Behold]

Dive in here, @St. SteVen, and rescue your thread!

His Thread is teaching classical... "pre-destined elect" , doctrine of devil's, Calvinism.

There is no "saving that", but many a theological fool will give it a shot.

Did you want to take aim again?, @O'Darby

 

[Behold]

In fact, no need even to meet them if they are hooked on Calvin, Mary or their theological opinions!

Why not meet them in real life?

It is true that "can any 2 walk together, unless they be agreed"..

But, meeting someone who is hooked on heresy, can be good for them, as maybe i can help them take another view.

Often, their entire issue is ONE BIBLE VERSE that someone told them.....>"well, that means".. and that person led them out of truth with just ONE Bible Verse.

This is why Heretics, often try to make the Bible only teach, their one verse they have misunderstood.

Paul said to some born again Galatians..

"WHO.. has bewitched you, so that you no longer obey the Truth".


One of those is John Calvin.


Here is something else about Heretics, @O'Darby ....

98% of Heretics live in 3 Epistles..

Hebrews.
Matthew
James.

I have a older Thread on this, somewhere here, .. i should probably bump it .

 

[Behold]

From post #47.

That's funny. I thought Baptists were "downright hostile to God." - LOL

Have you not on this Forum, written Threads, or at least one that implies that the Bible can't be trusted?

Now @O'Darby would give you high praise and 1000 "Likes" if you'd that and nothing else,... as that one, has some "issues" regarding trusting the word of God, and he's been very careful to let us know.

So, what Baptist has insulted God that way, and does not care?

You did it and you're not a Baptist...

 

[Behold]

Eternal Security....

A.) = Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved.

How can it be anything else..?

You came to Christ as a sinner, and God made you sinless... , and "the one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus for your sin" makes it FOREVER.

You can't save you, and you can't keep youself saved.
Stop trying. Relax, and Keep your eyes on Jesus, instead.

Are you the SAVIOR?

Just checking...

So, Then, trust in the One who is... to Keep you saved, and then you are understanding Eternal Security... as God Provides it.

Salvation is not part time.
Eternal Life is not Temporary.

Believe it.

 

[Wynona]

I seem to be the first or only non eternal security believer to join this discussion.

I enjoy being somewhat aloof. I don't expect many people to be willing to give up their cherished beliefs on salvation at this point. But here goes...

I have a list of Scriptures too...

My story is that I was on the fence about the topic years ago. But there was a war going on in another Christian forum I was apart of so I was intrigued.

The pro Eternal Security group would often quote a few verses like the one about the sheep not beinv snatched out of Jesus' hand. The smaller nonOSAS crowd also quoted verses but were often shouted down.

So I just decided to read the New Testament to test it. Context is key and I was shocked to see how many warnings there were about disobedience and losing your salvation. There's a pretty clear one in 2 Peter 2, for example.

Anyway, its been years and I don't see many who are simply curious about what Jesus taught. Rather I see a love for traditions and theological pillars that support God's goodness and not His severity.

This pattern has been going on for hundreds of years and if Scripture isn't enough to sway a person, then my words certainly arent. But reading Scripture in context, reading it out loud is the only way to know what Jesus and the disciples actually taught.

Eternal security is a cherished theological tradition but it is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus and the disciples. It's a comforting lie.

 

[St. SteVen]

I would ask the question, what does continually saved mean?

As it makes no sense to me, I await an answer,xx

Just had a thought, continually saved could mean ....we are always saved...just a thought.

My purpose for this topic was to address OSAS from the POV of eternal security.
Too many acronyms? - LOL

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved
(in case anyone doesn't know)

My POV = anti-OSAS = eternal insecurity (wait and see)

More of my POV =
We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd.

/

 

[Wynona]

I see John 10:28-29 being used to support eternal security again.

John 10:28-29
King James Version
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Amen. Jesus' gives his true sheep eternal life. No man can snatch them out of his hand.

But if no man can take Jesus' sheep, does that mean a sheep cannot wander away?

Are you really saying that no Christian has left following Jesus? That they have no choice in the matter once they decide to initially follow Him?

There are also some pretty confusing analagies being tossed around.

"We are children of God, therefore salvation is eternal." Children are disowned. Israel was cut off.

""When you are born again, you can't be UNborn."

No. But you can die. Scripture warns that our choices can lead to spiritual death even as professing Christians.

Skip ahead a few chapters to John 15.

Verse 6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[St. SteVen]

I seem to be the first or only non eternal security believer to join this discussion.

Thanks for joining the discussion.
I understand that there are two sides to this discussion.
I wanted a topic that took the side that is usually bashed.

So, you are claiming that you do not have eternal security?
Sorry to hear that. - LOL

/

 

[O'Darby]

I seem to be the first or only non eternal security believer to join this discussion.

Not at all. Read O'Darby's posts. Hey, that's me!