Lambano
Well-Known Member
Correct. People don't come here to hear; they come here so that they have a platform where they can be heard.
Allan Sherman in 'The Rape of the A*P*E*' said:
The Case for Eternal Security
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
And it's a little silly. With rare exceptions, convincing others of the errors in their thinking just doesn't happen here.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
And I do it too. I'm just as guilty as anyone else.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Getting back to the OP: I guess the net in this particular Bible-vs.-Bible p***ing match is, trust Jesus. Stay close to Him. And for God's sake, don't leave.
Seems that the best we can hope for is to get the other person to understand our position, whether they agree or not.
If they'll do that, I'm satisfied with that result.
Build bridges, not walls.
/
Sounds like good advice. In the end, that relationship is all that really counts.
They can blow the planet out from under your feet. But if you hang on to Jesus, you have everything.
Let's discuss what that means.
Leave what?
- Could a person have a good reason to leave their church fellowship?
- Could a person leave the church all together? Many already have.
- Could a person abandon doctrines that that can't justify anymore?
- Could a person stop believing in the "God" presented to them by the church?
- Could a person discount much of the Bible in favor of science and history?
- Could a person take the agnostic view that ultimately nothing can be proved?
- Could a person stop believing in God all together? (declared atheist)
Where do you draw the line?
/
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I run into guys who went from devout Baptist to downright hostile to God.
I might add to your list, "could a person change their mind about Jesus and deciding he was a deceiver, or something less than what Christianity believes Him to be." I had a friend who converted to traditional Judaism, I've known a few who converted to Islam, and someone who dropped Jesus for some wishy-washy New Age spirituality that believes in a god, but that god has few points of contact with the God of the Bible.
Last edited:
Lambano
Well-Known Member
They say the Bible comforts the afflicted, and afflicts the comfortable.
I guess the trick is to know when to apply the eternal security verses, and when to apply the warnings against apostasy.
I guess the trick is to know when to apply the eternal security verses, and when to apply the warnings against apostasy.
Last edited:
Interesting to listen to these folks if they will tell you how they arrived at their conclusions.
And I have to wonder how God views their situation. Does it anger him, or make him even more compassionate toward them?
Is God pleased with our "religious" devotion (fear), when we are really in no better shape than the honest person that walked away?
/
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Wow. Well said.
The contradictory messages lead to extremes on both ends.
We can't be so comfortable in our eternal security that we neglect the faith.
And we can't be so dogmatic in our warnings that we promote a religion of fear.
/
<--- B_A_L_A_N_C_E --->
We can't be so comfortable in our eternal security that we neglect the faith.
And we can't be so dogmatic in our warnings that we promote a religion of fear.
/
We can't be so comfortable in our eternal security that we neglect the faith.
And we can't be so dogmatic in our warnings that we promote a religion of fear.
/
Behold
Well-Known Member
To be comfortable in the knowledge that we have received "the Gift of Eternal Life" is to know you have real faith.
As when you doubt it, and try to earn it, or keep it, is the proof your faith is ither dead, broken, or well on the way there = Legalism.
Or, its proof the person is water baptized and religious as in that case there is no Salvation to have assurance of....
No salvation in water baptism?
Typically an outward ceremony for in inward reality. No salvation?
/
Amen!!...and for me personally, ...Spirit gives birth to spirit....that was an act of “ HIS” will....the “ Living “spiritual rebirth that only God can do, I did not choose to become Born Again..He made me that way all according to his purpose and plan!..xx
Real faith in the Spirit can only come from God, as his word says faith is a gift from God, a manifestation of the Spirit also as his word says, without the Spirit we are none of his.
A Born Again has the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their heart...that’s where the Spirit resides...as his word also says, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “. that is the Living spiritual birth, my testimony and belief...100%
You can’t have real faith imo unless it’s God given..Spirit gives birth to spirit ...then trust me....it’s full steam ahead....that God given faith will grow and grow...
Last edited:
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is Salvation., not water.
"Christ in you, the hope of Glory" (Glory is Heaven).
See that verse reader?
There is no water in it.
Water only gets you wet.
Jesus is your Eternal Salvation.
.........."well behold, are you saying that water baptism is wrong"?.........
Its only wrong for YOU, if you believe that water baptism died on the Cross for your sin.
See that is a person who is believing that Water is required for Salvation.
A.) No, JESUS is required for Salvation, as God didnt offer you anything else. = John 14:6 (read it)
So, once you have Jesus in you,... one you have become born again. Once you have become "THE temple of the Holy Spirit>>... once God has your Faith in Christ and you received God's ""Gift of Righteousness,""" and ""God's gift of Salvation", then you now have God's Redemption.
= So.. NOW go and get water baptised, but not to be saved, but only because you already are saved...
Its like Phillip told the Eunuch in Acts 8..."Yes you may be water baptized if you have believed with all your heart FIRST">
See that "First"?
Water isn't first, reader.
And also.. if you would like to be water baptized again, to celebrate God's Son as your Salvation, and your Righteousness, and you want to do it in the Holy Land, then if i am there, i can do it for you. We can go to Sea of Galilee and we'll have us a CELEBRATION in the Water.
We'll shout.. "GLORY TO GOD, and THANK YOU SWEET JESUS" for as long as we want., reader.
Listen..
Make certain you understand that there are CULTS... "water cults' that will set Jesus on The Cross.. aside, and deny the Cross and tell you... TEACH YOU< = the LIE that that "water washes away your sin...""
These cult denominations, with the "cult of Mary" being the original, will tell you that Lie and they'll have you believe it.
They'll tell you that lie on THIS VERY FORUM, as a matter of fact.
They will sway...You are "Born again BY WATER".... and that is a doctrine of devils.
They will tell you that "water washes away your sin".. .and that is as lie from Hell.
Don't get near those water cults, and if you are in one , then get out.
When I was baptised in water @St. SteVen ...it was a declaration of all of my sins being washed away...then I came up out of the water a new creation in Christ....
AMEN...xx
Not from religion...
Not from a book...
Not from history...
Not from science...
Not from apologetics...
Not from reasoning...
Not from philosophy...
Not from a leader...
Not from a parent...
Not from a brother...
Not from a sister...
Not from yourself...
Only from God. (period) xx
/
Yes!
It is a powerful thing when the inward reality proceeds to the outward expression in public water baptism.
Or in your case, all at once. A beautiful thing.
There is a reason that water baptisms are open to the, or even done in, public. A public declaration, (testimony)
I was young (8 yrs/old) when I received Christ and young when I was water baptized. (a few years later)
The reality of these things did not hit me until much later in life.
The biggest turning point for me was when I sought the Baptism with the Holy Spirit,
and began to manifest the work of the Holy Spirit in my life.
Much more to say about all of that. xx
/
From post #9
Right.
Salvation is both a broad and a narrow term.
If I ask you "when you were saved", I'm referring to a point in time past.
And there is a specific meaning attached to that.
But, as you know, God is continually saving us, and we are "working out our salvation".
Which does NOT mean that we are saving ourselves, OR that we are not yet saved. IMO
And if I start talking about UR things really get messy. - LOL
/
