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I'll believe Jesus.Again, no one is dead in the eternal, whether they are in Heaven or Hell, because the soul is immortal.
Where do you find any of God's people praying to the dead in the Christian Bible?Well, no one is dead in the eternal, whether they are in Heaven or Hell, because the soul is immortal. So, again, do you not ask others, whether those alive on earth or in Heaven, to join you in prayer to God for yourself or another?
Well all the Christians I know would define only the Bible as scripture. But obviously on this forum there are people who define almost any written word as scripture if it suits their purposes.Don't we need to define "Scripture" first before this debate can go anywhere?
You noticed that too? lolWell all the Christians I know would define only the Bible as scripture. But obviously on this forum there are people who define almost any written word as scripture if it suits their purposes.
That's not the same thing, I'm surprised you would make this equivalency. The praying to Mary thing is when you think you are speaking to someone who has passed into the next realm, praying to dead people, or rather alive in heaven but still, God said necromancy is forbidden. You are to pray to God. That's all that is ever taught in the Bible.So, when you ask others to join you in prayer to God for yourself, or another, you're praying to them as if they were God?
I'm not aware of a single Biblical reference to anyone praying to a dead person. I'm aware of Jesus praying to God on the cross and being misunderstood as praying to Elijah. That drew a reaction from some bystanders to get him a drink! I don't know how to interpret the incident. Maybe prayer directly to Elijah to return wasn't all that uncommon in first-century Judaism. I'm skeptical. (The Bible doesn't say it was common -- but the Bible doesn't say a great many things that are nonetheless true about first-century practices, so I infer nothing from this silence.)That's not the same thing, I'm surprised you would make this equivalency. The praying to Mary thing is when you think you are speaking to someone who has passed into the next realm, praying to dead people, or rather alive in heaven but still, God said necromancy is forbidden. You are to pray to God. That's all that is ever taught in the Bible.
Much love!
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (ESV)That's not the same thing, I'm surprised you would make this equivalency. The praying to Mary thing is when you think you are speaking to someone who has passed into the next realm, praying to dead people, or rather alive in heaven but still, God said necromancy is forbidden. You are to pray to God. That's all that is ever taught in the Bible.
Much love!
The assertion is earlier in the work:I see nothing in this passage suggesting that Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life. Do you?
Just a thought - if nobody is dead why do we have all those grave yards? And even those who are alive can be dead in their sin. Funny sort of teaching to say that nobody is dead.
Where do you find any of God's people praying to the dead in the Christian Bible?
I'm not aware of a single Biblical reference to anyone praying to a dead person.
The praying to Mary thing is when you think you are speaking to someone who has passed into the next realm, praying to dead people, or rather alive in heaven but still, God said necromancy is forbidden. You are to pray to God. That's all that is ever taught in the Bible.
This is the part the Bible doesn't teach. And the reasons for trying to communicate with the dead, yours is included also. Trying to speak to spirits who have passed from this realm to receive favor from God as they entreat Him on your behalf.and in Heaven
And no one can deny that there is existing FALSE information about people/places/events that is lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. You really need to get off this "The Bible doesn't say No, therefore YES" kick. You've got some good points to make, and this type of silliness only detracts from your credibility.
Luke equates salvation with forgiveness of sin in Luke 1:77. Yet Luke 1:47 quotes Mary as referring to “God my Savior.” Why would she need a Savior if she was sinless?
God could choose a sinner as His vessel to accomplish the Incarnation if He so desired.
The RCC's view is that Mary was born without original sin, so I'll confine myself to that one. Once we insist that a child can be born sinless only if the mother is born sinless, we start down a rabbit hole that we cannot escape (was Mary's mother sinless? was her grandmother sinless? and so on . . .)
Ok, the words ‘ could have ‘ are relevant because it means that it is speculation. I have an issue when something is speculation and it becomes a fact that is then proclaimed as relevant and solid and must be adhered to and worshiped.
But didn't Mary, who you regard as sinless, reside in someone stained with original sin? It just doesn't make sense.
There is no where in this scripture that says Mary was without sin.
Mary was created by a sinning father and mother just like you and I.
God could have created Mary apart from Adam, but He didn't.
But no one taught praying to the dead.
Do you then actually think that Mary was a "second Adam", that is, a new human not from Adam's line?Now follow your own standard and provide the scriptural verse from the Bible that proves your statement: "God could have created Mary apart from Adam, but He didn't."
You don't pray to Mary? I thought that's what we were talking about. I know, alive in heaven, but dead here.Catholics don't pray to the dead,
Follow your standard and show explicit Scripture that Mary never sinned.Now follow your own standard and provide the scriptural verse from the Bible that explicitly states Mary was with sin.
Do you then actually think that Mary was a "second Adam", that is, a new human not from Adam's line?
God performed 1 single creative act in making Man.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
This wasn't simply God creating a single man, when God created Adam He created all humanity. From Adam, Eve was taken, but not as a new creative act as when God created Adam.
Children when they are conceived are not each new creations like Adam was, but are the unfolding of Humanity, created by God in that day, now unfolding through the centuries as each generation comes from the last.
We see this here,
Hebrews 7:8-10
(8) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
(9) And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
(10) For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec, being in the loins of his father.
Were Mary a separate creation from Adam, she would be a new, a second humanity, not of Adam's line. However,
1 Corinthians 15:45-47
(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"The second man", the "last Adam", isn't Mary, it's the Lord from Heaven. Jesus.
So no, God did not create Mary apart from Adam. Thank you for asking!
Much love!
Follow your standard and show explicit Scripture that Mary never sinned.
Now regarding praying for the dead, that's something else not taught in the Bible...
What exactly is the purpose of purgatory?
I don't count that to be from God, it's from man, and I don't accept man's writings to contradict and overturn Scripture, being from God. Waste of time to quote it to me? Yes. The Bible already sets this forth. So it already refutes your poem, and therefore, your poem is not in fact Scripture.I happily can and would like to from the scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God. I know that's not The Bible, but I don't limit the knowledge of God to one book, a book made up of multiple books itself. Unless you're of the same mind about that, and are willing to at least read what I have to share without any prejudgment, would you say it'd be a waste of my time to quote from it?