God, the Most Holy and Perfect One, being conceived and taking human form IN a human being of sin, is not the same as walking among sinners. Also, do you plan on seeing people of sin dwelling in Heaven with God? So, explain how God can be conceived and taking human form IN a human being of sin when sin (evil) cannot dwell with God?
The Case for the Sinless Ever-Virgin Mary.
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God, the Most Holy and Perfect One, being conceived and taking human form IN a human being of sin, is not the same as walking among sinners. Also, do you plan on seeing people of sin dwelling in Heaven with God? So, explain how God can be conceived and taking human form IN a human being of sin when sin (evil) cannot dwell with God?
How is it that Jesus can dwell among sinners, but cannot be born of one? That doesn't make sense to me. If he can do the one, he can do the other.
Yet, we read that evil (sin) cannot dwell with God (Ps. 5:4). So, how can God be conceived, take human form, and dwell in the womb of a sinful human being?
Again, if Jesus can make his dwelling among sinners for 30+ years, he can gestate in the womb of a sinner -- which you say counts as "dwelling" -- for 9 months.
So, are you saying Scripture is wrong and evil can dwell with God even though it says it can't?
Are you asking me whether Psalm 5:4 is inconsistent with John 1:14? It won't be the first tine two Bible passages are inconsistent! I am inclined to put my money on John 1:14.
Scripture is never wrong, only people's understanding of it. So, do you say that Ps. 5:4 is wrong when it says evil cannot dwell with God?
Explain how God being conceived and taking human form in, or making His dwelling in, the womb of a sinful human being is the same as God walking among sinful human beings.
Is John 1:14 wrong when it says that Jesus dwelt among us sinners?
I think we've beaten this one to death. Let's agree to disagree and move on. We certainly won't be able to agree that Scripture is never wrong, because I am convinced it is chock full of inconsistencies.
I don't think anyone here believes you. The DEAD in Christ are not DEAD?
1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Corinthians 15:42
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (ESV)
10 A charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,
12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD.
1 Chronicles 10:13-14
13 So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the LORD, because he did not keep the word of the LORD, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance. 14 But he did not inquire of the LORD; therefore He killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.
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Firstly, I already said that there is existing false and true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. I made a point to remind that there's true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible in response to protestants who argue, "If x, y, z is not mentioned, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically false," because that is false. Does that mean if x y, z is not mentioned at all, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically true? No, but again, it doesn't automatically mean it isn't either, and it isn't impossible to know whether x, y, z is true or false. Do you agree with all that?
Secondly, I've never argued that Mary being without sin is not in the scriptural writings that make up the Bible, and thus proves my position, but rather argued that it is in the Bible, just not in a way others accept, at least right now. I've also argued that Mary being without sin is explicitly mentioned in scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God, currently not accepted by some. Therefore, you're misrepresenting me when you say I'm on a "The Bible doesn't say NO, therefore YES kick," so will you say that detracts from any credibility you may have?
Thirdly, what credibility do I have, or can I have, among Protestants when merely for being Catholic most Protestants here, if not all, say that anything I believe that they don't is automatically false?
Of course not, just as I know Ps. 5:4 is not wrong, because Scripture is never wrong, only people's understandings of it.
So, you do believe that Scripture is wrong to say that evil (sin) cannot dwell with God?
Explain how God being conceived and taking human form in, or making His dwelling in, the womb of a sinful human being is the same as God walking among sinful human beings.
Really?
Did the centurion who wanted Jesus to heal his servant approached Jesus in person (Matthew 8:5-13) or send an intermediary (Luke 7:2-10)? Were there two demoniacs whose demons were sent into a herd of swine (Matt 8:28) or only one (Mark 5:2, Luke 8:27)? Was the transfiguration six days after the promise of Jesus that “some standing here will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1-2), or eight days later (Luke 9:28)? Did Jesse have seven sons (1 Chronicles 2:13-15) or eight (1 Samuel 16:10-11)? Was Ahaziah twenty-two years old when he began to reign (2 Kings 8:26) or forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)? Did Solomon have 4,000 horse stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25) or 40,000 (1 Kings 4:26)? Was Moses’s sending spies into Canaan suggested by God (Numbers 13:1-2) or by the people (Deuteronomy 1:22)? Is Joseph’s lineage is traced from David through Solomon (Matt. 1:6) or through Nathan (Luke 3:31)? Did Jesus send his apostles out with sandals and staff (Mark 6:8-9) or without them (Matt. 10:10)? Did David enter the house of God and eat the altar bread “when Abiathar was high priest” (Mark 2:26), or is 1 Samuel 21:1-6 right that Ahimelech, not his son Abiathar, was high priest at the time? Was the Last Supper a Passover meal as the Synoptics say (Mark 14:12, Mark 14:16-17, Matthew 26:17, Matthew 26:19-20, Luke 22:7–9, Luke 22:13-14), or was it eaten the day before Passover as John says (John 13:1, John 18:28, John 19:14)?
I could go on until dawn. But it's late, and I need to sleep. I'll leave you one more to chew on overnight: Matthew 27:9 mistakenly attributes the story of the purchase of the potters’ field to Jeremiah rather than Zechariah. Tell me why.
While I work on answering those, you can answer these:
Firstly, I already said that there is existing false and true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. I made a point to remind that there's true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible in response to protestants who argue, "If x, y, z is not mentioned, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically false," because that is false. Does that mean if x y, z is not mentioned at all, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically true? No, but again, it doesn't automatically mean it isn't either, and it isn't impossible to know whether x, y, z is true or false. Do you agree with all that?
Secondly, I've never argued that Mary being without sin is not in the scriptural writings that make up the Bible, and thus proves my position, but rather argued that it is in the Bible, just not in a way others accept, at least right now. I've also argued that Mary being without sin is explicitly mentioned in scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God, currently not accepted by some. Therefore, you're misrepresenting me when you say I'm on a "The Bible doesn't say NO, therefore YES kick," so will you say that detracts from any credibility you may have?
Thirdly, what credibility do I have, or can I have, among Protestants when merely for being Catholic most Protestants here, if not all, say that anything I believe that they don't is automatically false?
So, you do believe that Scripture is wrong to say that evil (sin) cannot dwell with God?
Explain how God being conceived and taking human form in, or making His dwelling in, the womb of a sinful human being is the same as God walking among sinful human beings.
According to Jesus, among those born of women there is no one greater than John. I saw one person get round it by saying we can refer to John as an angel, so he does not count
Jesus said, "among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he" (Lk. 7:28). "The one" is a singular individual who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven and greater than John. Who is that individual? It is Jesus. Here's Jesus's words in full as found in scriptural writings that make up The Gospel As It Was Revealed To Me, or The Poem of the Man-God:
"John is more than a prophet. He is more than many saints, because he is the one of whom it is written: "Look, I am going to send my angel to prepare Your way before You" (Malachi: 3:1). Angel. Consider this. You know that the angels are pure spirits created by God to His spiritual likeness and placed as a link between man, the perfection of the visible and material creation, and God, the Perfection of Heaven and Earth, Creator of the spiritual Kingdom and of the animal kingdom. Even in the holiest man there is always flesh and blood forming an abyss between him and God. And the abyss subsides under the weight of sin that weighs down also what is spiritual in man. So God created the angels, creatures reaching the summit of the creation scale, just as minerals lie at its base, minerals being the dust forming the earth and inorganic materials in general. They are clear mirrors of the Thought of God, willing flames operating out of love, ready to understand, quick in acting, free in willing as we are, but their entirely holy will ignores the rebellion and incentive of sin. That is what the angels adoring God are, His messengers to men, our protectors, who grant us the Light that shines on them and the Fire that they gather worshiping.
John is called "angel" by the prophetic word. And I said: "Of all the children born of women, a greater one than John the Baptist has never been seen." Yet the least in the Kingdom of Heaven will be greater than John-man. Because one of the Kingdom of Heaven is a son of God and not of woman."
All of that has previously been addressed. People will go to any lengths on websites such as these to defend denominational teaching. Mary and John were born naturally of women, yet none is greater than John. Simple truth does not need much theological extrapolation
If you read what Jesus said, He said that no one born of a woman is greater than John, and that only He Himself is greater than John because He is the son of God, not of a woman.
Glad you agree, no one born of woman is greater than John, so that must include Mary
Yes, and yet only She is the Mother of God Incarnate, yours and our Spiritual Mother, the Queen of Heaven, and Holy Spouse of our King and God, and for many reasons.
If you give me scriptural references for all of that I will discuss it with you. We are here to discuss the bible. But, as you seem to agree Mary is not greater than John I am happy to leave it there
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