What Is "Salvation" In 1 Corinthians 10?

[GracePeace]

In 1 Corinthians 10, the "salvation" of Christians is said to be the anti-type to the deliverance from the house of bondage, and from God's wrath there, which the Jews experienced.

1. The Jews spread the blood of a lamb on the doorposts of their homes, and were spared from God's wrath--we are spared from God's wrath by the blood Jesus (called "our Passover Lamb") shed on the Cross.
2. The Jews were baptized into Moses in the Red Sea--believers are baptized into Christ.
3. The Jews ate manna, spiritual food--believers eat the communion.

However, after having been saved, and after having been baptized, and after having eaten spiritual food, these very same "saved" people sinned, so they fell under God's wrath, and did not inherit God's promise (today, this relates to the eternal life that is in Christ).

Therefore, when people say they are "saved", do they take these things into consideration--that what "saved" means is they're saved from slavery to sin ("the house of bondage", "he who sins is a slave of sin"), but not that they cannot ever again face wrath if they continue sinning despite having been "saved"? Isn't this the selfsame teaching as Hebrews 10?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are saved from the penalty of sin.

We can be saved from the bondage of sin all we want. if we are not saved from the penalty of sin, we are really not saved at all.

 

[GracePeace]

We are saved from the penalty of sin.

We can be saved from the bondage of sin all we want. if we are not saved from the penalty of sin, we are really not saved at all.

Paul's argument is that the "saved" (the Church) must be careful how they live after having been saved, or else they will fall under God's wrath, and not inherit the promise.

 

[GracePeace]

We are saved from the penalty of sin.

We can be saved from the bondage of sin all we want. if we are not saved from the penalty of sin, we are really not saved at all.

Yes, Paul was speaking to the Church (those "saved from the penalty of sin", as you would put it), telling them these things about what "salvation" and Christianity were about, and how these things worked in Christianity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul's argument is that the "saved" (the Church) must be careful how they live after having been saved, or else they will fall under God's wrath, and not inherit the promise.

no it is not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

paul would not contradict himself

Yes, Paul was speaking to the Church (those "saved from the penalty of sin", as you would put it), telling them these things about what "salvation" and Christianity were about, and how these things worked in Christianity.

 

[GracePeace]

no it is not

Which part of what I said were you disagreeing with?

 

[GracePeace]

paul would not contradict himself

Paul doesn't contradict himself, though he may contradict some of the ways we traditionally have interpreted what he has said--as Peter has warned his writings are difficult to understand. If we find inconsistencies in our understandings of Paul, if he sounds incoherent, therefore, we should suspect we have misunderstood him.

 

[marks]

Paul's argument is that the "saved" (the Church) must be careful how they live after having been saved, or else they will fall under God's wrath, and not inherit the promise.

Would you quote the particular verses you are seeing this in?

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Would you quote the particular verses you are seeing this in?

Much love!

1 Corinthians 10 (ESV)
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers,a that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3and all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrownb in the wilderness.
6Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. 7Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.” 8We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9We must not put Christc to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. 12Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18Consider the people of Israel:d are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which part of what I said were you disagreeing with?

the part that says one can be rescued from the penalty of sin, yet still suffer the penalty of sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul doesn't contradict himself, though he may contradict some of the ways we traditionally have interpreted what he has said--as Peter has warned his writings are difficult to understand. If we find inconsistencies in our understandings of Paul, if he sounds incoherent, therefore, we should suspect we have misunderstood him.

Paul is complete agreement with Jesus.

We are saved by Grace through faith. Not works.

we can't obey ourselves to be worthy, and we cna not not obey ourselves enough to be unworthy, we are unworthy, we will remain unworthy. Because no one lives up to Gods standard

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 10 (ESV)
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers,a that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3and all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrownb in the wilderness.
6Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. 7Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.” 8We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9We must not put Christc to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. 12Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18Consider the people of Israel:d are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Which verses in particular? I'm hoping you will spell this out for me because I don't see that in this passage.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

the part that says one can be rescued from the penalty of sin, yet still suffer the penalty of sin

Well, that's what Paul is teaching, isn't it?

Isn't this the purport of all of Scripture, as well?

Psalm 85
8Let me hear what God the LORD will speak, for he will speak peace to his people, to his saints; but let them not turn back to folly.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 Corinthians 10 (ESV)
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers,a that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3and all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrownb in the wilderness.
6Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. 7Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.” 8We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9We must not put Christc to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. 12Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 13No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18Consider the people of Israel:d are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

the jews left in unbelief.

they remained in unbelief

for this reason, they never entered the promised land.

 

[GracePeace]

Paul is complete agreement with Jesus.

We are saved by Grace through faith. Not works.

we can't obey ourselves to be worthy, and we cna not not obey ourselves enough to be unworthy, we are unworthy, we will remain unworthy. Because no one lives up to Gods standard

Yeah, we're "saved", and, after being "saved", Paul says, we must be careful how we live, or else we will be punished for sinning.
The main issue here is how you are defining "saved"--I think it is only partially accurate, according to what we are reading here.

 

[GracePeace]

the jews left in unbelief.

they remained in unbelief

for this reason, they never entered the promised land.

According to Paul, the Jews' salvation was a type of what we who believe are now experiencing--he relates all of their experiences to Christians' experiences.

 

[GracePeace]

Which verses in particular? I'm hoping you will spell this out for me because I don't see that in this passage.

Much love!

Not sure what's difficult.

The opening verses list a few of the aspects of the Jews' salvation from Egypt, being baptized into Moses, and eating manna--all corresponding, according to Paul, to the Christian experience--and he goes on to warn that, irrespectively, they sinned after all of these things, and were destroyed in the wilderness (and Scripture notes how God in His wrath swore that that generation would not enter His promise)--and that these things speak to Christians to tell them how God relates to them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yeah, we're "saved", and, after being "saved", Paul says, we must be careful how we live, or else we will be punished for sinning.
The main issue here is how you are defining "saved"--I think it is only partially accurate, according to what we are reading here.

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

If your saved. You have been saved from the wage of sin.

If you can sin yourself out of salvation. You have yet to be saved.

 

[marks]

Not sure what's difficult.

Ditto. If this is a doctrine of Scripture, I'm asking you to show me the specific verses that teach this. You've posted a chapter, and given your understanding. I'm looking for specific statements of the Bible.

Much love!