HELLUCINATIONS

[Keraz]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there and if what is perceived contradicts scripture, then it is from the depths of hell.

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.
Many Prophesies show this is God’s Plan for all the people who prove their trust in Him and who: Call upon His name, for His protection, through all that must happen.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Following.....despite that I was in an AoG church as a baby Christian (age 13) being taught rapture teachings, God gave me a vision when I was about age 16 (1989) and it was unlike anything I was being taught.

 

[Phoneman777]

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Amem, "hellucinations" is a great description!

I agree, the focus of the entire passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV is not heaven, but the resurrection which happens down here, not up there.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

I wouldn't say "impossible" - but the idea is definitely not Biblical:

• God preserved Noah in the midst of the Flood, not from it.
• God preserved Israel in the midst of the 7 last plagues, not from them.
• God preserved Israel in the midst of the Red Sea, not from it.
• God preserved Daniel's friends in the midst of the fiery furnace, not from it.
• God preserved Daniel in the midst of the lion's den, not from it.
• God preserved the people of Dothan in the midst of the Assyrian army, not from it.
• God promises "a thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand, but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked".

And in spite of all this, people still claim Jesus will sneak into town and sneak out with the saints.

 

[Earburner]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there and if what is perceived contradicts scripture, then it is from the depths of hell.

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.
Many Prophesies show this is God’s Plan for all the people who prove their trust in Him and who: Call upon His name, for His protection, through all that must happen.

I for one, stand in between those two fantastical thoughts of a secret Rapure, or that of a gathering to earthly Jerusalem.

Since I did say "in between", I am meaning that it is neither of what you say, but rather a sudden, simultaneous event of vengeance and destruction for the unsaved, and redemption for the saved.
KJV- Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10

 

[Keraz]

I for one, stand in between those two fantastical thoughts of a secret Rapure, or that of a gathering to earthly Jerusalem.

At least you have given it some consideration.
The idea of a rapture/removal is nowhere to be found in the bible, but the great Second Exodus of Gods faithful peoples is well Prophesied.

rather a sudden, simultaneous event of vengeance and destruction for the unsaved, and redemption for the saved.

Ezekiel 21:1-4 is quite clear; both the righteous and the wicked people in the holy Land will be killed. Only a [Christian] remnant will be saved.
The rest of the world will also be severely affected, Jeremiah 25:33

 

[Raccoon1010]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there and if what is perceived contradicts scripture, then it is from the depths of hell.

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.
Many Prophesies show this is God’s Plan for all the people who prove their trust in Him and who: Call upon His name, for His protection, through all that must happen.

@Keraz please allow me to explain to everyone information about hallucinations. Let me help you to see the difference between a hallucination of the brain, God's prophecy visions which I would not take lightly, and the devil's visions he clearly provided to Jesus in his temptation area as recorded in the New Testament.

Drugs can cause hallucinations. Also a mental hallucination would be connecting scripture together that doesn't have a real connection. That is what they call paranoia. It is believing something is true without evidence. God's children listen to him and believe him.

No man can understand God's prophecies unless he provides to that man an understanding. They are not explained by God to man if that man or men are wicked. We know that from scripture. Messing around in Revelation that is not to be added to or removed from and publicly declaring that is warned against with curses from that book.

 

[Keraz]

@Keraz please allow me to explain to everyone information about hallucinations. Let me help you to see the difference between a hallucination of the brain, God's prophecy visions which I would not take lightly, and the devil's visions he clearly provided to Jesus in his temptation area as recorded in the New Testament.

Drugs can cause hallucinations. Also a mental hallucination would be connecting scripture together that doesn't have a real connection. That is what they call paranoia. It is believing something is true without evidence. God's children listen to him and believe him.

No man can understand God's prophecies unless he provides to that man an understanding. They are not explained by God to man if that man or men are wicked. We know that from scripture. Messing around in Revelation that is not to be added to or removed from and publicly declaring that is warned against with curses from that book.

Of course, I use the word - hallucination, in a metaphorical way. Those who 'see' a rapture to heaven' in the Bible are otherwise quite normal people. But paranoid about avoiding any trials or testing, They are delusional -

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 20 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Of course, I use the word - hallucination, in a metaphorical way. Those who 'see' a rapture to heaven' in the Bible are otherwise quite normal people. But paranoid about avoiding any trials or testing, They are delusional -

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 20 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

Thanks for clarifying your stance. I don't have a stance on the rapture but am hopeful in the resurrection Christ has to offer. I do look forward to being in heaven with God and his family and I hope to be among his family as a child of God.

 

[honeycomb]

Hey, everybody….Take note of who receives the bowls of God's wrath. God is not angry with those who love Him.

Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth." So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

- Revelation 16:1-2

 

[Rockerduck]

I had a vision of the rapture. Two people were dancing slow and arms around each other. Then, the man shot straight up. So fast the women still had her arms in the air, still dancing.

This vision from Jesus, is just like Apostle Paul's description.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (who are alive) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Matthew 24:40-41 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course, I use the word - hallucination, in a metaphorical way. Those who 'see' a rapture to heaven' in the Bible are otherwise quite normal people. But paranoid about avoiding any trials or testing, They are delusional -

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 20 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

This is so far out of line that it's just unbelievable. God does not send strong delusion on Christians.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Notice that 2 Thess 2:11 applies to people who rejected the truth, are not saved and are damned. Yet, here you are applying those verses to Christians who have a wrong understanding of end times doctrine. You are making it so that one's end times doctrine is a determining factor in whether or not someone is a Christian, which is ridiculous. It makes me wonder if you even understand what it means to be a Christian. I know a number of true Christians who love Christ with all of their hearts and serve Him faithfully but they are just clueless about end times doctrine. Not having a good understanding of end times doctrine does not prevent someone from following Christ and serving Him. Your misapplication of verses like 2 Thess 2:11 shows why you misinterpret much scripture. It's because of your lack of attention to detail and context.

 

[Keraz]

Thanks for clarifying your stance. I don't have a stance on the rapture but am hopeful in the resurrection Christ has to offer. I do look forward to being in heaven with God and his family and I hope to be among his family as a child of God.

Humans never go to live in heaven. Eventually God and heaven come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

Hey, everybody….Take note of who receives the bowls of God's wrath. God is not angry with those who love Him.

Right. We are told to - Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved.

I had a vision of the rapture. Two people were dancing slow and arms around each other. Then, the man shot straight up. So fast the women still had her arms in the air, still dancing.

This vision from Jesus, is just like Apostle Paul's description.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (who are alive) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Matthew 24:40-41 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

There will be no rapture removal as you envisage. That is never prophesied to happen.
1 Cor 15:50-56, is a prophecy for the final Judgment, when Death will be no more. Rev 21:4
Matthew 24:40-41 does not prove a rapture. The ones taken are the wicked peoples killed. Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27, +

This is so far out of line that it's just unbelievable. God does not send strong delusion on Christians.

But He does and you are an example. The AMill belief is a delusion and a denial of reality.
Isaiah 29:9-12 shows how those who choose to believe false teachings, will become locked into them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But He does and you are an example. The AMill belief is a delusion and a denial of reality.
Isaiah 29:9-12 shows how those who choose to believe false teachings, will become locked into them.

You used 2 Thess 2:11 as an example of what you were talking about. Is 2 Thess 2:11 referring to Christians? Absolutely not.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 clearly refers to people who reject the truth, are not saved and are condemned. So, you should be more careful when referencing verses that you think refer to Christians believing false teachings since that verse is clearly not referring to Christians.

 

[Rockerduck]

There will be no rapture removal as you envisage. That is never prophesied to happen.
1 Cor 15:50-56, is a prophecy for the final Judgment, when Death will be no more. Rev 21:4
Matthew 24:40-41 does not prove a rapture. The ones taken are the wicked peoples killed. Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27, +

I'll believe God's word over yours. When I receive a vision it has always come true.

 

[Keraz]

2 Thessalonians 2:11 clearly refers to people who reject the truth, are not saved and are condemned. So, you should be more careful when referencing verses that you think refer to Christians believing false teachings since that verse is clearly not referring to Christians.

Yes, but I used that scripture to show how God can and does give a spirit of mis-understanding to those who choose false beliefs.

WE two are an example; either you or me is deluded and I put it to you that the one who says that a whole Chapter of the Bible, Revelation 20; is not to be taken literally or what will happen, is the confused and deceived one.

I'll believe God's word over yours. When I receive a vision it has always come true.

Satan and his minions can give people visions too.
You should always check to see if a vision corelates with scripture. The rapture to heaven of the Christians, doesn't.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes, but I used that scripture to show how God can and does give a spirit of mis-understanding to those who choose false beliefs.

WE two are an example; either you or me is deluded and I put it to you that the one who says that a whole Chapter of the Bible, Revelation 20; is not to be taken literally or what will happen, is the confused and deceived one.

Satan and his minions can give people visions too.
You should always check to see if a vision corelates with scripture. The rapture to heaven of the Christians, doesn't.

Satan has no power over a Born again from above Christian. He can throw temptations your way, but that's all.

 

[Phoneman777]

I for one, stand in between those two fantastical thoughts of a secret Rapure, or that of a gathering to earthly Jerusalem.

Since I did say "in between", I am meaning that it is neither of what you say, but rather a sudden, simultaneous event of vengeance and destruction for the unsaved, and redemption for the saved.
KJV- Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10

I agree, the wicked will be dropping dead "at the brightness of His coming" from "one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth" at the same time the righteous within and without the grave go up to meet Jesus.

Can you imagine? The sublime splendor and unspeakable glory of Jesus will so arrest the attention of the righteous going up to meet Him in the clouds that the unfathomable destruction that will at the same time be sweeping across the planet when "the heavens and the Earth shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat... and the Earth and the works therein shall be burned up" won't even register on our radar. As we travel with Jesus back to the "Father's house" we'll be leaving behind a dark, desolate, uninhabited, silent hunk of rock littered with corpses over which Satan for the next 1,000 years will have to hurdle while being chased through his "empire of dirt" by the same demons he promised greatness and glory apart from God's government.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, but I used that scripture to show how God can and does give a spirit of mis-understanding to those who choose false beliefs.

How stubborn are you, anyway? You can't even admit that you should not have used a scripture that talks about unbelievers to refer to believers who are believing in false teaching. Can you put your huge ego aside for just a second and just acknowledge that you should not use a passage that refers to non-Christians to make a statement about Christians with false beliefs?

WE two are an example; either you or me is deluded and I put it to you that the one who says that a whole Chapter of the Bible, Revelation 20; is not to be taken literally or what will happen, is the confused and deceived one.

If we are mistaken about some end times doctrine, so be it. Does that mean the things we're right about mean nothing? Is Jesus going to reject us for misinterpreting Revelation 20? Of course not. Salvation does not hinge on our interpretation of Revelation 20.

Satan and his minions can give people visions too.
You should always check to see if a vision corelates with scripture. The rapture to heaven of the Christians, doesn't.

Can you please not refer to more than one person in the same post? I thought you were saying this to me until I noticed you were talking to someone else.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree, the wicked will be dropping dead "at the brightness of His coming" from "one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth" at the same time the righteous within and without the grave go up to meet Jesus.

Can you imagine? The sublime splendor and unspeakable glory of Jesus will so arrest the attention of the righteous going up to meet Him in the clouds that the unfathomable destruction that will at the same time be sweeping across the planet when "the heavens and the Earth shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat... and the Earth and the works therein shall be burned up" won't even register on our radar. As we travel with Jesus back to the "Father's house" we'll be leaving behind a dark, desolate, uninhabited, silent hunk of rock littered with corpses over which Satan for the next 1,000 years will have to hurdle while being chased through his "empire of dirt" by the same demons he promised greatness and glory apart from God's government.

Here's another ridiculous SDA doctrine that you believe in. That doctrine makes the thousand years completely pointless. If the earth is uninhabited for a thousand years then where do the ones who number "as the sand of the sea" on the earth come from in Revelation 20:7-9?

 

[Keraz]

Satan has no power over a Born again from above Christian. He can throw temptations your way, but that's all.

And the temptation that many have fallen for, is the rapture escapist belief.

Hey; foolish Christian, you who don't bother to read your Bible, you need to do nothing. The Lord is going to whisk you away from any trials or testing. NOT