Making us like our brother
- Thread starter Matthias
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David Lamb
Active Member
As far as I am aware, the Jehovah's Witness's version is the only one to say, "a god". I have just looked at John 1:1 in 29 English translations, and they all say, "the word was God."
Lambano
Well-Known Member
For technical reasons, the NWT translation is permissible under the rules of Greek grammar, but that's not what this thread is about. The temptation to tease brother Matthias about "being godlike" vs. "being a god" given his oft-stated theological position proved to be too strong to for me to resist, and I need to repent.
David Lamb
Active Member
Oh, that explains it. I couldn't understand otherwise why you seemed to be promoting the NWT. Thanks for clarifying.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Your echo of Genesis 2:24 and its imagery of sexual intercourse as a metaphor for the joining of two people into a single family-unit threw me and started me thinking of non-spiritual matters. This is all your fault.
What do you think of Theosis? Your use of "being joined with Him" resonates with "participating in the divine life" and "union with God" description I quoted in post #9.
Postscript: Theosis doesn't have any particular appeal to me; quality control engineers don't make good mystics. But it's an oddity around here, and my aforementioned friend on the other forum had a mystical bent, so I'm curious.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
That question was one of the reasons why I chose to participate in this thread, when if I had a lick of sense, I would've stayed out of it. What did John mean when he wrote, "When He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him as He really is", where "He" in context has to refer to God? How will the Children of God be like God? And what does "seeing Him as He really is" have to do with it?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
To pretend that I know and understand what the Son's nature is (which is essentially unknowable) would distract me from looking with awe and wonder at Jesus and the things attributed to Him by the biblical writers.
Don't ever lose that sense of awe and wonder.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Since we're picking off the low-hanging fruit, how about Righteousness? Real righteousness, not just forensic or positional righteousness. And real Holiness, a real separation from the things of this world? In the 1 John 3 quote, John uses the future hope that we will be like God as a jumping off point for exhorting his flock to purify themselves in the here-and-now.
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. (1 John 3:3)
And how about love?
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. .... 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. (1 John 3:14,16)
This is how God is making us like Jesus in the here-and-now. I assume the job will be made complete "when He appears".
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Dr. Horton is a Calvinist. What he thinks about the nature of Jesus isn’t what captured my attention. What he said about followers of Jesus did.
”We are deified by grace.”
We’re saved by grace.
We’re deified by grace? That’s what I’d like to hear your thoughts about. Do you think you’re being deified?
There are a fair number of other translations which render John 1:1 as the NWT does. I don’t think that’s what John had in mind when he wrote his Gospel.
In what way(s) do you think God is making followers of Jesus like Jesus? Do you agree with Dr. Horton that you are being deified by grace?
That’s right.
I don’t mind that but it could leave some of your readers who aren’t as familiar with me as you are with the false impression that I’m a JW. I know you know that I’m not a JW (and I never have been) but others might not.
The JWs might also be disturbed by the thought that what I believe about Jesus could be mistaken by others for what they believe about him. I wouldn’t want that to happen any more than they would. My Christology and theirs isn’t compatible.
I don’t think there was any malicious intent in your comment. (I smiled when I read it.) I hesitate to even comment on it but, for a number of reasons, I want our readers to be clear on the matter.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
What are the properties of deity? You mentioned immortality. What else?
I agree with those which you listed.
What I’d like to know is whether or not you think you’re / we’re being deified by God.
The Father is not making his people deity. He alone, I assert as a Jewish monotheist, is the only deity.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Do you see the need to define our terms up front so we at least know what we're arguing about?
What I see is that you’d rather not comment on the question. That’s allowed.
I wasn’t aware that we were arguing.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The Old Testament acknowledges the existence of other gods. Chemosh, Baal, Milcom, Dagon, et. al. The Jewish people are told to worship YHWH alone.
They’re idols. Idols are lifeless and worthless.
Jesus is a Jewish person. YHWH is his God and Father. Jesus worships YHWH alone as the one true God. There is no other God besides his God.
Now we’re even further away from the topic of the thread than we were before!
Behold
Well-Known Member
Notice that Believers are "fore-Known" but not Pre-Chosen.
Notice that the "conforming" is not to Believe.....but its after you are born again, "in Christ"... you are then predestined to be conformed into the "image of His Son".
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
Being conformed to his image should not be classified as being made "divine". A created being can never be divine. The substance of divinity is eternal and outside the created realm of space and time. Be careful you don't swallow the original lie from Satan "Ye shall be as God"
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