Jesus utters the most unbelievable phrase from a religious founder

[KUWN]

Jesus utters the most unbelievable phrase from a religious founder​

I do not find in Scripture the “quote you reference,”

Jesus came AS a man, to be Seen by men

Belief is one thing.
Faith is another thing.

It is Natural for men to Believe, what they SEE.
Jesus was SENT to BE SEEN.

Jesus was SENT to accomplish “ Particular” things.

ONE of those things, WAS to teach, preach, edify, glorify God, by, through, of Teaching, preaching for men to put their Faith in God in Heaven….NOT a man…as Jesus stood facing them “appearing AS a man”..

Gods mysterious ways.

Glory to God,
Taken

Your reply gives the impression that you do not know what was being discussed. Read John 10:37, 38. Jesus clearly says "Do not believe (put your faith in me."

All of those who responded to my statement had no clue about translation methods from Greek to English. In fact, several of the replies where juvenile.

Finally, you said:
Belief is one thing.
Faith is another thing.

The root meanings of belief is same as root for faith
pist--: belief
pist--: faith

 

[Scott Downey]

I'm used to just correcting verse usage and context that twist the meaning, more than Greek usage. More, defending the bible. I have and use the NASB 95 also but started using the LSB instead. I worked with the Billy Graham association in the 90's, and Billy Graham only used the KJV, so all of us used it also. Back then you would be coitized for using a different bible, with the exception of the NASB 95.

On BibleGateway, you can compare many bible versions and do it for single verses, see all versions at once.
I am impressed with the EXB version. Take a look. I tend towards the NKJV mostly.

 

[Rockerduck]

On BibleGateway, you can compare many bible versions and do it for single verses, see all versions at once.
I am impressed with the EXB version. Take a look. I tend towards the NKJV mostly.

I have 7 NKJV Bibles, I use for bible studies to compromise between the different bibles people bring. I've corrected mistakes in it. I looked at the EXB and it looks more like the Amplified bible (AmpC). I used to have it. BibleGateway's flaw is if are looking for a verse but you have part of phrase, it can't find it. It has to be exactly the wording. I have 11 KJV
bibles, and lots of other translations and paraphrases. I'll read them, then read another.

 

[Scott Downey]

I have 7 NKJV Bibles, I use for bible studies to compromise between the different bibles people bring. I've corrected mistakes in it. I looked at the EXB and it looks more like the Amplified bible (AmpC). I used to have it. BibleGateway's flaw is if are looking for a verse but you have part of phrase, it can't find it. It has to be exactly the wording. I have 11 KJV
bibles, and lots of other translations and paraphrases. I'll read them, then read another.

Another good scripture study with Greek words is Blue letter bible.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"lord" AND "said" AND "to" AND "my" AND "lord" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[KUWN]

Not quite, LoL. Like I said, you inverted the phrasing.

Clever riddle, so I'm not gonna argue it to death, but technically you were taking a few liberties in translation. You are educated enough to know how εἰ οὐ ποιῶ τὰ ἔργα τοῦ πατρός μου, μὴ πιστεύετέ μοι· should be translated more strictly.

Or do you have me on block from our last conversation?

Blessings,
Hidden

Tell me what the translational difference is with the follow two phrases:

1. Do not believe me (I am growing fonder of this phrase because it explicitly tells the unbelievers NOT to believe Jesus.)

2. Do not put your faith in me.

Most scholars teach that this verse is a hyperbole. Christ is exaggerating to make a point. Although I don't find this helpful, it is better than everyone's take on this verse in this Forum. All of you have been intimidated by my translation of the CT. Scholars at least accept my translation. Where they differ is in the interpretation of the meaning.

 

[Rockerduck]

Tell me what the translational difference is with the follow two phrases:

1. Do not believe me (I am growing fonder of this phrase because it explicitly tells the unbelievers NOT to believe Jesus.)

2. Do not put your faith in me.

Most scholars teach that this verse is a hyperbole. Christ is exaggerating to make a point. Although I don't find this helpful, it is better than everyone's take on this verse in this Forum. All of you have been intimidated by my translation of the CT. Scholars at least accept my translation. Where they differ is in the interpretation of the meaning.

What scholars?

 

[Taken]

Your reply gives the impression that you do not know what was being discussed. Read John 10:37, 38. Jesus clearly says "Do not believe (put your faith in me."

Jesus was Sent and Appeared AS a man, was called a man… YET NOT SENT to Teach human men to Put their FAITH IN MEN…even Him, whom they SAW AS A man…
Rather He was SENT aAS a Servant of God, to teach men TO put their Faith in the Spiritual God.

Does the mystery Confuse you?

All of those who responded to my statement had no clue about translation methods from Greek to English. In fact, several of the replies where juvenile.

Finally, you said:
Belief is one thing.
Faith is another thing.

The root meanings of belief is same as root for faith
pist--: belief
pist--: faith

Belief and Faith have a common denominator of Meaning:
YET a DIFFERENCE in Identity of the Being involved.

Context of the involved…man / God.

Belief is the Mans “Action”.
Faith is Gods “Action”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

What you just quoted is what I have been saying all along. Look at the red highlighted text that YOU wrote.

37 εἰ οὐ ποιῶ τὰ ἔργα τοῦ πατρός μου, μὴ πιστεύετέ μοι·38 εἰ δὲ ποιῶ, κἂν ἐμοὶ μὴ πιστεύητε, τοῖς ἔργοις πιστεύετε, ἵνα γνῶτε καὶ γινώσκητε ὅτι ἐν ἐμοὶ ὁ πατὴρ κἀγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί.

Would anyone care to show me where I am wrong.

You were "wrong" not to mention "If" in your original post.

What explanation do you have for your trickery, resulting in four pages of initial nonsense?

 

[Taken]

You were "wrong" not to mention "If" in your original post.

What explanation do you have for your trickery, resulting in four pages of initial nonsense?

You were "wrong" not to mention "If" in your original post.

What explanation do you have for your trickery, resulting in four pages of initial nonsense?

Agree.

The all important “little words all to often are ignored”

IF…is signifiant…IF “this” “then”…That (reveals the consequence for Acts or lack thereof.

AS… is NOT “IS”.
God “IS” Spirit, regardless if He Appears.. “AS” a man, a dove, a bush, a fire ball, an angel, a blinding bright Light..
His Power, His Prerogative to Appear according to His Will, His Pleasure.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Hidden In Him]

Tell me what the translational difference is with the follow two phrases:

1. Do not believe me (I am growing fonder of this phrase because it explicitly tells the unbelievers NOT to believe Jesus.)

2. Do not put your faith in me.

35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

KUWN, in some contexts the two phases are perfectly identical and synonymous. Here, however, He is referring to a specific statement: That He is the Son of God. The expression "have faith in me" refers more directly to a system of beliefs; or in other words, "Have faith in me as a person, and in everything I teach," which is the way most probably took you in reading the OP. But while "Believe me when I say I am the Son of God" is akin to having faith in Him as a person (it's a precursor), as of yet He was only referring to believing His statement that He was the Son of God. This is the context, which is why nearly all translations have "believe Me."

 

[Behold]

I am assuming you are not a serious student of the word based on your comments.

Your posts and Threads prove you are a Tool of a Cult, and are not engaged in correct NT theology.
So, while you're at it tomorrow, go ahead and tell us the name of your Cult, as you are definitely not a part of a mainline Protestant Denomination. @KUWN

 

[Dash RipRock]

I decided to post the verse about a minute ago. Now you know where it is, and talking about making a bad impression, why are you saying that something in John 10 is not in our bible? I do accept apologies if you can handle it.

Bud, you just outed yourself as someone that apparently does not accept all the Lord says in His Word or is otherwise not a serious student of God's Word being unaware of all the Lord said about this. I think the phrase many use is being a cherry picker.

John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 12:44 - Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
(This is still believing in Jesus and included believing on the Father Who sent Him)

John 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

These passages show where Jesus actually did say we are to believe in Him.
And to your point, yes we are also to believe in His works in addition to believing in Him.

That's because Kuwn is falsifying scripture.

What he posted is true but the problem is he did not post all of that the Lord said on this issue.

Belief conditioned on whether or not Jesus does the works of the Father.

Well Jesus certainly did the works the Father sent Him to do, so everyone should believe in Jesus then.

Stick with the KJV for the correct Greek.

And then understand there are errors in the KJV such as when they translated passover as easter which is error.

I use the KJV myself but I'm not deceived in to believing there aren't a few errors in it, although the KJV has proven to be far more accurate that the translations that came after it.

That's why I'm not a KJV only cult member!

Belief is one thing.
Faith is another thing.

Scripture references for this?

Gods mysterious ways.

No, He's not mysterious at all to those that accept all that He says in His Word.
If God wanted to be mysterious He would not have had His Word put in to written form and would not have sent the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Former and retired, but emeritus, meaning, sometimes., long time KJV user. Not a pastor, an evangelist.

One does not retired from a Godly calling.
Very fishy that one claims to have been called to full time ministry and then retires.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Your posts and Threads prove you are a Tool of a Cult, and are not engaged in correct NT theology.
So, while you're at it tomorrow, go ahead and tell us the name of your Cult, as you are definitely not a part of a mainline Protestant Denomination. @KUWN

Yea yeah anyone that does not agree with you is in a cult. Got it.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

What he posted is true but the problem is he did not post all of that the Lord said on this issue.

It wasn't,isn't, true. He made a statement regarding Jesus telling us not to follow him.

That's not true. He misrepresented the truth of God's word. Therefore,what he stated,and used as a pretext to initiate this discussion was a dishonest premeditated act.

 

[KUWN]

35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

KUWN, in some contexts the two phases are perfectly identical and synonymous. Here, however, He is referring to a specific statement: That He is the Son of God. The expression "have faith in me" refers more directly to a system of beliefs; or in other words, "Have faith in me as a person, and in everything I teach," which is the way most probably took you in reading the OP. But while "Believe me when I say I am the Son of God" is akin to having faith in Him as a person (it's a precursor), as of yet He was only referring to believing His statement that He was the Son of God. This is the context, which is why nearly all translations have "believe Me."

Just to show you something about Greek. it can say "Jesus loves Paul" 25 different ways. ALL meaning the exact same thing.

What nobody has done yet is to explain what Jesus meant by "Do not believe me?" That is the issue, not does Jesus say believe in me elsewhere (obviously he does).

 

[KUWN]

So where did you hear this?

If you are going to claim Jesus said this, then provide the scripture reference showing where He said it.

John 10:37, 38

 

[KUWN]

Ummm... That was a bit of sleight of hand there, LoL. You inverted the phrasing to put the second phrase first. The actual Greek reads, "If I do not do the works of My Father, believe Me not."

No matter how you divide these phrases, they all mean the exact same thing. The KJV will do just fine, if you don't like other translations.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Just to show you something about Greek. it can say "Jesus loves Paul" 25 different ways. ALL meaning the exact same thing.

What nobody has done yet is to explain what Jesus meant by "Do not believe me?" That is the issue, not does Jesus say believe in me elsewhere (obviously he does).

Fortunately, everyone here sees what you are doing by misrepresenting the words,teachings,of Jesus.

We do not explain beyond the fact we have exposed you falsify scripture.

Why you do this is between you and your conscience.

This thread is a falsehood that goads believers from post 1.
I'm surprised it is allowed in a forum for Christians.

 

[marks]

What is your take on Jesus when he said, 'Do not put your faith in me.' Can you imagine any founder of any religious movement where the leader tells the follower to NOT put your faith in me. You will have to search to find this phrase, but it is well worth your time. It will give you a grasp of what kind of faith Christ requires.

Just to show you something about Greek. it can say "Jesus loves Paul" 25 different ways. ALL meaning the exact same thing.

What nobody has done yet is to explain what Jesus meant by "Do not believe me?" That is the issue, not does Jesus say believe in me elsewhere (obviously he does).

Sorry no one is seeming to pick up on your intent for the thread, but that that says something itself.

Jesus taught that He should not be believed unless His life was conforming to His words.

Jesus likewise challenged them,

John 8:46 KJV
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Can you imagine how ferociously they would have wanted to pin some sin, any sin, on Jesus?

His life was blameless, and beyond reproach, and demonstrated the power of God.

Much love!

 

[Dash RipRock]

John 10:37, 38

These passages show where Jesus actually did say we are to believe in Him.
Do you believe these passages are Jesus telling lies???

John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 12:44 - Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
(This is still believing in Jesus and included believing on the Father Who sent Him)

John 11:25-26 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?