Douggg, how long was the beast and the False Prophet imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit?
When does Isaiah 24:21-22 take place? How long are the many days that the judged entities in the Isaiah 23:21-22 verse will face before they are punished?
THE CONFIRMING OF THE COVENANT OF DANIEL 9:27
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Douggg, how long was the beast and the False Prophet imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit?
When does Isaiah 24:21-22 take place? How long are the many days that the judged entities in the Isaiah 23:21-22 verse will face before they are punished?
The beast-king and the false prophet are end times persons. They have never been in the bottomless pit prison.
Isaiah 24:21-22 takes place at the time of the great white throne judgment.
The "host (group) of high ones that are on high" in verse 21 is referring to certain of the angels who rebelled with Satan, who committed sex acts with human women back around the time of the flood (Genesis 6:2-4), perverting the human race, resulting in the giants on the earth. And as a result, the earth became filled with violence and evil (Genesis 6:5, Genesis 6:11-12).
Those angels have been imprisoned, Jude 1:6, awaiting the great day of judgment.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
....and will stand before the great white throne judgment - and on that great day will be cast into the lake of fire. As creation will be cleansed of all the evil ones. And creation start afresh in Revelation 21.
Douggg you are following the false understanding of the reformation fathers who made the Beasts, the Little Horn and the Antichrist into having human form so that they could demonise the RCC.
I on the other hand believe that the Beasts, the Little Horn and the Antichrist are wicked fallen Heavenly Host who will be judged in around 20 years' time when the Kings of the Earth will be gathered at Armageddon to be judged as Isaiah told us in Isaiah 24:21-22.
Your statement is true at this present time, but in around 20 years from now they will be imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit.
This is what scripture states: -
Re the Beast: -
Revelation 17:7-8: - 7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery/hidden truth of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition/destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is/shall be present.
Re the Beast from the earth, i.e. The Little Horn/False Prophet
Revelation 13:11-12: - 11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Now when the False Prophet comes up out of the earth, from where does he come?
Now Douggg, are Revelation 17 and Revelation 13 presented linearly, or have they been presented in the order in which they have been seen by/presented to John.
Now Douggg if Isaiah 24:21-22 takes place at the time of the Great White Throne Judgement, then the heavenly hosts of Satan, the Beast and the Little Horn/False Prophet, cannot be judged a second time because they have already been judged at the time the kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon and just before the GWTR judgement they all have been dispatched into the Lake of Fire which is their punishment.
As such the quoted statement of yours is not scripturally based but is based upon your own private understanding.
Douggg, because of your private understandings many on this forum have not accepted what you post.
Goodbye Douggg.
No, I do not agree with the reformers' claim that the pope/papacy is the little horn, nor do I agree with the reformers' claim that the pope/papacy is the Antichrist.
The beast-king (the Antichrist) and the false prophet are end times persons of the parable of the fig tree generation that will witness Jesus's return.
The false prophet will emerge from Israel. Out of the sea, on the other hand, means out of the nations (other than Israel).
Jay, there is judgment in terms of physical death, as in Revelation 19:21. And there is judgment in terms of eternal death, as in Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15 .
Jay, I think you need to connect Isaiah 24:21-22 with Jude 1:6 and the great white throne judgment cleansing of creation.
Not what is written. Satan is NOT... coming as his old self working violence, chaos, etc. He is coming for one's SOUL using DECEPTION. You've obviously been listening to too many Hal Lindsay type preachers who think the final Antichrist is going do mass murdering and such, which is not what is written.
I've already shown the Daniel 8 example of how the coming Antichrist will work. He will destroy using PEACE, and craft will prosper in his hand. That... is what the miracles will be about, used to deceived the whole world into worshiping him in place of God.
I am so surprised that so many brethren just believe whatever comes out of the mouth of many of today's preachers who only follow their organizational system doctrines instead of what God's written Word actually teaches. When Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 showed the coming Antichrist ("man of sin") will exalt himself in the "temple of God" (a stone temple in Jerusalem), showing himself that he is... GOD, and over all that is called GOD, or that is even worshiped, then that means his working is going to be DECEPTION, and not all out violence.
The Antichrist is not going to do mass murdering, you say ?
Davy, what does this say.... ?
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
That verse covers the WHOLE HISTORY of Christian saints that were martyred. Only some will be executed for the future "great tribulation", otherwise there would be no Church still existing alive on earth for Christ to rapture! Think!
You haven't been watching all the conspiracy theory nuts have you, like stocked up coffins, and the Georgia Guidestones that have been partially destroyed that declares world population will be down to 500,000 people?
The Antichrist will persecute only those who know who he really is, and that is Christ's elect, but still not all of Christ's elect, or the rapture couldn't happen. Christ's elect will be the only group that will refuse... to bow to the coming Antichrist as God, The Christ. All others will be deceived by his claim as God and the power of miracles he has power to do, and that is the the whole world except Christ's elect...
Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
The only ones with their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world are Christ's faithful elect.
No, Davy, not about the WHOLE HISTORY of martyred Christian saints.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Davy, that verse, Revelation 20:4, is specifically about the great tribulation saints. Beheaded during the time of the beast - for refusing to worship the beast, nor his image. Read the text.
The great tribulation saints will be persons who become Christians after the resurrection/rapture has taken place.
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Differently, Christians that were martyred previously down through history will be resurrected in the resurrection/rapture that will take place before the great tribulation begins. They will be part of the bride of Christ, who will return with Jesus, in Revelation 19:7-8, Revelation 19:14.
Davy, you are trying to place the resurrection/rapture after Jesus returns. It is not going to happen that way.
Here is the sequence.....
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
There is no basis for dividing Christians into groups the way you do. We are all one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:28). All Christians are part of the bride of Christ, including any who are killed during a time of tribulation. There will be no rapture before Jesus comes at the end of the age. The rapture will happen after Jesus descends from heaven for the one and only time in the future when the end of this temporal age comes.
Nope, you are not reading that Rev.20:4 verse thoroughly.
That verse includes... the Old Testament prophets who also were persecuted for The Word of God, with the phrase above, "and for the word of God." It also includes the early disciples who were killed for Christ during Apostle Paul's days, even like Paul and Peter, all Christian martyrs prior to the future coming "great tribulation".
Thus that is NOT only about Christian saints for the time of the "great tribulation". Jesus' idea that the last shall be first still does not discard the first group of elect saints from His future reign with Him.
NOPE!
That above underlined part is MAN'S FALSE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE THEORY. It is NOT written anywhere in God's Word!
You simply are deceived by men's false traditions created loosely based... on The Bible. Many who believe man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory do so just because it is popular, and not because they understand how it goes directly against... God's written Word!
Lord Jesus Christ revealed that His future coming to gather His faithful saints will be AFTER... the "great tribulation", as written per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which I have mentioned several times on this Forum, which I am certain you have read, yet you obviously REJECT what Lord Jesus Himself said there about His coming.
Davy, there is no rapturing of the living in Christ in Revelation 20:4-6. Thus, it is not the resurrection/rapture event of 1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11.
Revelation 20:4 is specificially for the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints.
Davy, I have not said anything about the Pre-trib Rapture Theory. That resurrection/rapture timing view mandates that the resurrection/rapture must take place before the 70th week begins.
The resurrection/rapture "may" take place before the 70th week begins... or it may not. It may not be until after the 70th week begins.
The time of the beast-king person's reign when the be-headings will take place does not start until the middle of the 70th week.
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Davy, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, the gathering of the elect is referring to the final gathering of the Jews still scattered in the nations to the land of Israel.
The phrase from the outer most parts of heaven, in Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27 is a figure of speech meaning from the most distant lands away from Israel.
Deuteronomy 30:3-6
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
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The gathering of the Jews from the nations is also in Ezekiel 39:28. It is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to this earth.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
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Sorry to say so, but your idea is BALDERDASH.
Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV
Will you also make a claim that the above verse DOES NOT INCLUDE "CAUGHT UP" SAINTS OF 1 THESSALONIANS 4:17?
You do realize what that would mean don't you? It would mean you are calling Lord Jesus a liar.
When Lord Jesus returns in the future, He gathers TWO groups of saints to Him, only one of them are involved in the future resurrection (the "asleep" saints Paul calls them). The other group of 1 Thess.4:17 are still alive when He comes, and are "caught up" to Him. So you're going to try and tell me all those gathered saints by Christ are NOT GOING TO REIGN WITH HIM FOR THE THOUSAND YEARS???
If you believe that, then I'd have to say you are definitely CONFUSED about the concept of who represent Christ's faithful Church that He will gather to Himself when He comes.
Oh yes you have. You are only TRYING TO HIDE IT.
Here is one your little slip-ups...
You said in your post #228:
"Differently, Christians that were martyred previously down through history will be resurrected in the resurrection/rapture that will take place before the great tribulation begins."
Biblical Fact -- there is NO resurrection/rapture that will take place BEFORE the "great tribulation".
No it isn't. That is a LIE.
In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, called Christ's Olivet discourse, He was giving the main SIGNS of the end leading up to His future coming. And those Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures are about the FINAL SIGN He gave for the END, that of His future coming and gathering of His saints!
So what you are following is a false doctrine of the FALSE JEWS, those of the "synagogue of Satan" who only CLAIM TO BE JEWS, but are not and lie, trying to hide among true Judah. I admonish you to LEAVE THAT FALSE GROUP AND THEIR FALSE BELIEFS IMMEDIATELY.
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The pre-trib rapture view is defined as pre-70th week. Not pre-great tribulation. The great tribulation will begin near the middle of the 70th week.
Davy, the resurrection/rapture saints will return with Jesus to reign with Him the thousand years.
The resurrected great tribulation martyred saints will also reign with Jesus the thousand years.
Davy, in my post #252, I gave the verses in Deuteronomy 30:3-6 and Ezekiel 39:27-29 that make it clear that the gathering of the elect when Jesus returns is talking about the final gathering of the Jews from the nations to the land of Israel.
It has nothing to do with the synagogue of Satan, nor false Jews, as you are saying.
The Pre-trib Rapture Theory is the belief that Jesus RAPTURES HIS CHURCH PRIOR TO THE "GREAT TRIBULATION".
That idea is nowhere written of in God's Word. It is a man-made doctrine for the wicked and the deceived.
And I well know... you understand that, but that you are just here to play games.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
While I'm obviously not Premill (nevermind that for now, it's beside the point), I agree with this from the post-trib perspective and from the perspective of what 1 Thess 4:14-17 is about. Why would anyone think that not all believers would have part in the first resurrection and reign with Christ? Why would anyone think that 1 Thess 4:14-17 does not include all believers? That makes no sense. We are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:28), so there is no such thing as the church and a separate group of "trib saints" as pre-tribs believe.
Yeah, his denial of being pre-trib is rather ridiculous. He says it's pre-great trib instead but most people's understanding of the term "pre-trib" is pre-great trib.
The Pre-tribulation rapture view is that the rapture will take place before the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 begins.
Proponents of the Pre-tribulation rapture view consider that the entire 70th week is tribulation. It is an error on their part that they do. The entire 70th week is not tribulation.
Do you understand the error of calling the entire 70th week tribulation ?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Not all of them do. Not all equate the entire 70th week with the tribulation. Some equate the tribulation only with a time period that begins after the supposed future 70th week begins and, usually, those only see the last 3.5 years before Christ's returns as being the tribulation. So, for them, pre-trib means He comes at some point after the 70th week begins and before the last 3.5 years begins.
And, some, but not many, believe, the tribulation starts some time before the 70th week begins which means they see the rapture as occurring some number of years before the 70th week begins.
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