The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

[Carl Emerson]

Are false prophets now arising and performing great signs and wonders? (in the end times) Not yet. ???
What qualifies as great signs and wonders?

Some churches claim to be doing that today.

When all mankind sees the two witnesses in action, the hour is very late.

That supports my point. Anyone that is not Wheat and Tares is the real Body of Christ.

In the parable the Wheat are the saved.

Meaning the Elect today are likely deceived. Again, supporting my point.

Not so - it is a fact that tares can be in church leadership.

Did you receive empowerment by the laying on of the Apostles (capital A) hands?

My case seems to be an exception - I was BHS in a church that didn't even believe in it - sitting in a pew listening to the preacher and Whamm.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

When i am wrong i say sorry and make it up the person i wronged. That is christian protocol.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When i am wrong i say sorry and make it up the person i wronged. That is christian protocol.

Are you making a general statement or referring to a particular members post ?

 

[Sabé]

John 16

The Work of the Holy Spirit​

“And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

And when the Holy Spirit has come, through the wisdom and the words, the deeds and the heroism that He will infuse into the apostles, He will convince the world of its deicide sin, and of justice with regard to His (Jesus's) holiness. And a clear cut will divide the world into reprobates, enemies of God, and believers. The latter will be more or less holy, according to their will. But judgement will be passed on the prince of the world and his servants. Jesus couldn't tell them more then, because they were not yet able to understand. But He assured them that He, the Paraclete, will give them the whole Truth, because He will not speak as from Himself. But He will tell them everything He heard from the Mind of God and will announce the future to them. He will take what comes from Jesus, that is, what is still of the Father, and will tell them. (Jn. 16:8-15, PV5)

 

[Sabé]

Right. No gospel. No Jesus. Human conscience. (universalism)

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The great mercy of God shines even more luminously infinite in the words of Paul, who inspired proclaims that only those who do not acknowledge any law—neither natural, nor supernatural, nor reasoning—will perish, whereas those who have known the Law and who have not practiced it, from the same Law which saves, will be condemned; and more: that the Gentiles who do not have the Law but naturally and rationally do that which the unknown Law prescribes to them—by giving to themselves, only through the light of reason, righteousness of heart and obedience to the voices of the Spirit, unknown but present, the sole master of their spirit of good will, obedience to those inspirations which they follow because their virtue loves them and do not know that they are unknowingly serving God—these Gentiles, who show with their actions that the Law is written in their virtuous hearts, will be justified on Judgement Day.

Let us observe these three great categories of divine justice in which perfect mercy and justice shine.

Those who do not acknowledge any law, neither natural nor human and therefore rational, nor superhuman. Who are they? The savages? No. They are the lucifers of the Earth. And their numbers grow always more with the passing of time, notwithstanding civilization and the diffusion of the Gospel, an inexhaustible preaching of it, should make their numbers always more scanty. However, peace, justice and light are promised to men of good will. And these are of an evil will.

They are the rebels of every law, even of the natural law. Therefore, they are inferior to brutes. They voluntarily deny their nature of man: that of being endowed with a reasoning mind and soul. They commit things against nature and against reason. They no longer merit but to perish amongst the number of men who are created in the image and likeness of God, and they will perish as men in order to take on their desired nature as demons.

Second category: the hypocrites, the false, those who mock God by having the Law, by having it only and not practicing it. And can one then say that they truly have it and draw benefits from it? Similar to those who possess a treasure but who leave it idle and unattended, they do not draw fruits of eternal life and immediate joys at their death, and God will condemn them because they had the gift of God and they did not use it with gratefulness to the Donator who had placed them in the elect part of Humanity: in that of His People because it is marked by the Christian sign.

Third category: the Gentiles. Let us give this status to those of the present day who are not Christian Catholics. Let us call them so, while we meditate on the words of Paul. They, who not having the Law, do naturally what the Law imposes—and they are a law unto themselves, showing in this manner just how their spirit loves virtue and tends towards the supreme Good—they will be justified when God, through the Saviour, shall judge the secret actions of men.

These are many. A large number. And it will be an immense crowd... of every nation, tribe, people, language, onto whom, on the last day, through the infinite merits of Christ immolated as far as to the extreme drop of blood and [aqueous] humour, there will be impressed the seal of the living God for the salvation and reward before the extreme and final judgement.

Their virtues, their spontaneous obedience to the law of virtues, will have baptized them without any other baptism, consecrated without any other chrism than that of the infinite merits of the Saviour. Limbo will no longer be the abode of the just ones. Just as on the night of Good Friday, Limbo had emptied itself of its just ones because the Blood spilled by the Redeemer had cleansed them from original sin, so too, on Judgement Day, the merits of Christ triumphing over every enemy will absolve them of not having been of His flock for their firm faith of being in the right religion, and will reward them for their virtue exercised in life.

If it were not so, God would be cheating these just ones who gave themselves a law of justice and who defended justice and virtue. And God never cheats. It sometimes takes a long time for it to be accomplished, though always certain is His reward. (Rom. 2:12-16, LER)

 

[Josho]

Was planning to put this in the Christian Theology section,
but wanted to put this in front of a different audience.
I haven't posted in this area for a while.

In a conversation this morning I was trying to explain a concept
when the descriptor "homeostasis" came to mind.

There is a stability, whether real or imagined, that comes
with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem to matter
what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?
2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?
3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?
4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?
5) At what point should you decide to leave?

Just wonder is reaching religious homeostasis and maintaining it possible in today's world? Especially amoung our own when there are thousands of Christian denominations?

They were of one accord in the Upper Room in the book of Acts, but now there are all these differing doctrines out there.

 

[Carl Emerson]

And when the Holy Spirit has come, through the wisdom and the words, the deeds and the heroism that He will infuse into the apostles, He will convince the world of its deicide sin, and of justice with regard to His (Jesus's) holiness. And a clear cut will divide the world into reprobates, enemies of God, and believers. The latter will be more or less holy, according to their will. But judgement will be passed on the prince of the world and his servants. Jesus couldn't tell them more then, because they were not yet able to understand. But He assured them that He, the Paraclete, will give them the whole Truth, because He will not speak as from Himself. But He will tell them everything He heard from the Mind of God and will announce the future to them. He will take what comes from Jesus, that is, what is still of the Father, and will tell them. (Jn. 16:8-15, PV5)

We see plenty of activity from the Holy Spirit that is not directly though the Apostles - folks convicted of sin, righteousness and judgement simply by picking up a Bible and beginning to read - or in a dream seeing Jesus as Lord - I seems He is working on a broad front.

 

[St. SteVen]

Just wonder is reaching religious homeostasis and maintaining it possible in today's world? Especially amoung our own when there are thousands of Christian denominations?

Religious homeostasis is possible in any number of Christian denominations.
Nothing to do with doctrine, just a state of comfort with it. IMHO
It has more to do with a static relationship. Not a willingness to move outward from it.

They were of one accord in the Upper Room in the book of Acts, but now there are all these differing doctrines out there.

I have launched a number of topics on the subject of Doctrinal Unity.

The Unity and Division threads - Unified to one topic - Divided by links

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

This is about the meaning of Jn. 16:8-15 which specifically regards the Holy Spirit and the apostles, since they were the first leaders of the Christian (Catholic) Church. And, the meaning of it which I explained doesn't negate the other ways in which the Holy Spirit operates.

Ok - thanks for the clarification.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is a stability, whether real or imagined,
that comes with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem
to matter what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?
2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?
3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?
4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?
5) At what point should you decide to leave?

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

1. insecurity
2. yes
3. no, you could be either
4. better to leave
5. When you have a 'Rhema' word of guidance.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just wonder is reaching religious homeostasis and maintaining it possible in today's world? Especially amoung our own when there are thousands of Christian denominations?

That depends on who you define as “our own”.
Are the multitudes of denominations actually teaching one truth, or are they at odds with each other with no internal harmony at all?

Don’t you have to ask, “who are the wheat and who are the tares (weeds)?”
If you understand the parable, and what the “weeds” actually were, you would understand that the tares are actually counterfeit or imitation “wheat”. These pretend Christians betray their Master by doing what Christ told them not to do.

If the devil sowed all of the weeds, and Jesus sowed only wheat, then looking in Christendom to find those wheat, we would be searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack....unless we know what ‘the real thing’ looks like, how would we identify the counterfeits?
“By their fruits” Jesus said we would recognize his true disciples. So what is the criteria?

1) Consensus and acceptance of one truth with no divisions or dissension. (1 Cor 1:10)

2) All that Jesus taught is to be obeyed and accepted no matter how difficult the world makes it. (John 14:21; John 15:18-21)

3) We are to be “no part of the world” (John 18:36) because of who is its ruler. (1 John 5:19; 2 Cor 4:3-4)

Just those three main criteria eliminates the hopelessly divided churches of Christendom as the “wheat”.
True Christians are separate from this world in their lifestyle and practices. Morally and spiritually they reject what has been adopted and given a thin “Christian” veneer as if celebrating disguised pagan festivals which honoured false gods is actually OK with the one true God that Jesus came to teach us about.

In his laws to Israel, no false worship was acceptable to him, which was clearly outlined by Paul in 2 Cor 6:14-18. We are to touch nothing spiritually “unclean” in God’s eyes.....but if you examine all of Christendom’s celebrations, every one of them is a pagan adoption, but passed off as “Christian”.

They were of one accord in the Upper Room in the book of Acts, but now there are all these differing doctrines out there.

Yes, there was just one “Christian church” in Acts...all were in agreement, and no one was permitted to introduce their own ideas on anything, even though some had tried.....there were those appointed as leaders of the faith, with a proven track record of faithfulness and unity of belief and purpose. Any who caused dissension or who were divisive or immoral, were to be expelled. (1 Cor 5:9-13)

But once the Apostles passed away, the rot that was foretold, (2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1-3) set in fairly quickly so that by the 4th century the weakened condition of the “Christian church”, opened the way for the tyrannical rule of Roman Catholicism, which to this day is a sad fusion of weakened Christianity and pagan Roman sun worship.
From that “mother” church, sprang all her daughters who carried over the foundational doctrines of their mother’s false worship, with beliefs so ingrained that no one can question them without cries of “heresy!”

Gal 1:6-9.....Paul addressed the Galatian congregation....
“I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7  Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8  However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9  As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.”

There is no good news in Christendom...only confusion and disobedience to Christ’s teachings. There is justification for divisions of all kinds.....doctrinal divisions, involvement in corrupt and divisive politics, justification for bloodshed in war, moral dilemmas over the current gender issues, a lax attitude to marriage and divorce, and the teaching that a God of love could torture souls in a fiery hell for all eternity!

Genuine Christianity is no part of that world, and accepts only Christ’s teachings on all of them. But you first have to know what Christ’s teachings are if you want to obey them.

 

[Berean]

Genuine Christianity is no part of that world, and accepts only Christ’s teachings on all of them. But you first have to know what Christ’s teachings are if you want to obey them.

Funny, because you don't even know what Christ teaches, since your leaders are constantly changing their belief system. An ever-revolving theology.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat​

Was planning to put this in the Christian Theology section,
but wanted to put this in front of a different audience.
I haven't posted in this area for a while.

In a conversation this morning I was trying to explain a concept
when the descriptor "homeostasis" came to mind.

There is a stability, whether real or imagined, that comes
with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem to matter
what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?
2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?
3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?
4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?
5) At what point should you decide to leave?

 

[quietthinker]

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat​

Was planning to put this in the Christian Theology section,
but wanted to put this in front of a different audience.
I haven't posted in this area for a while.

In a conversation this morning I was trying to explain a concept
when the descriptor "homeostasis" came to mind.

There is a stability, whether real or imagined, that comes
with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem to matter
what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?
2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?
3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?
4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?
5) At what point should you decide to leave?

If a person is prone to distance themselves because I ask questions, it is to their loss. I will know the score re their lack of curiosity, their unhealthy ego....and frankly, I leave them to their choices. If it gets that bad the tribe puts me out, I guess I pack my bags and go.
If the boat ain't rockin' yer not on the sea!

 

[St. SteVen]

If the boat ain't rockin' yer not on the sea!

That solid gold right there, thanks.

 

[Behold]

not given​

answers that satisfy your need,

You're a forum Troll, so, you dont need answers, you need something else.
ITs on the way.

 

[St. SteVen]

You're a forum Troll, so, you dont need answers, you need something else.
ITs on the way.

Correction.
This is MY topic. You are the Troll. (trolling MY topic)

 

[quietthinker]

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat​

Was planning to put this in the Christian Theology section,
but wanted to put this in front of a different audience.
I haven't posted in this area for a while.

In a conversation this morning I was trying to explain a concept
when the descriptor "homeostasis" came to mind.

There is a stability, whether real or imagined, that comes
with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem to matter
what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?
2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?
3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?
4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?
5) At what point should you decide to leave?

Being put out takes different forms. It can be extreme like overt shunning practised in different circles or it can be more subtle like not being notified when new posts appear on a subject commented on. Yes, yes, I know there are lots of excuses, however observation across the spectrum over time confirms this.
Soldiering on inevitably involves conflict, either internal or external.....only do not join the ranks of foolishness....which also surfaces in multiple forms.

 

[stevesonthebay]

Was planning to put this in the Christian Theology section,
but wanted to put this in front of a different audience.
I haven't posted in this area for a while.

In a conversation this morning I was trying to explain a concept
when the descriptor "homeostasis" came to mind.

There is a stability, whether real or imagined, that comes
with alignment to religious beliefs. And it doesn't seem to matter
what religion, or what sector of Christianity.

Full acceptance of what you are taught brings closure
to the "search" for truth. A sense of arriving safely.
You found it, and feel that you belong.

And if one wants to maintain this homeostasis,
best not to rock the boat. Don't ask questions, just keep
quiet and go with the flow, and everything will be fine.

However, if you do have questions and are not given
answers that satisfy your need, this can cause some friction.
Others in the tribe may prefer that you accept what you
have been given and don't make waves.

If you continue to press for satisfaction, the tribe may
decide that you no longer belong. Or at least they will begin
to distance themselves. Which leads to alienation
and a loss of your original homeostasis.

Questions to discuss:
1) What keeps us locked in homeostasis?

I think there are diferent ways to define homeostasis. Here are a couple of definitions

1. the tendency towards a relatively stable equilibrium between interdependent elements, especially as maintained by physiological processes.
2. Homeostasis is the biological process by which organisms maintain a stable, balanced internal environment despite changing external conditions.
   
   I think what may be a better definition is something like cognitive dissonance. Which is the mental discomfort and psychological stress experienced when holding two or more contradictory beliefs, values, or behaviors simultaneously.
   
   But this will not just apply to religion. If you notice such as with secular ideology and norms that people conform around the norm. Anyone who disagrees or says the wrong thing that doesn't align is shamed or cancelled. So theres a pressure to coform. To not rock the boat.

But I think the outcome is similar in that groups want to maintain stability and not allow conflicts.

2) Should you be allowed to question the status quo?

Yes and no. In religion like Christianity we are suppose to have a unity of mind and spirit. So really theres no questioning of the core doctrines.

But at the same time if there are false teachings then I think these can be questioned.

Then the question is what about religions disagreeing or even Christian denominations disagreeing. Thats when I think it becomes complicated and more decernment is needed. But one way or another if this is Christ church then all denominations should be of one mind and spirit. In fact if this was the case there would be no denominations.

3) Do feelings of alienation mean you are in the wrong?

Yes, feelings can be misleading. Especially the negative feelings which may be out of anger, or resentment or even envy. Feelings need to be qualified psychologically. But also spiritually with the fruits of the spirit.

4) At what point should you be put out of the tribe?

A tribe and a religious group or denomination is not really a tribe. Though they often act that way. Which sort of says that its not about religion fundementally. But a human natural instinct.

Either way I think there is a justification for putting people out of a tribe or religious group. All religions do it. If a person is a false prophet or sinner in the church they are rebuked and if they don't repent are put out.

If a person says the wrong thing or holds the wrong belief in a PC culture they are shamed cancelled and ostrasised.

Humans have an inclination to form tribes without God. A unified God. I think this stems way back. How there were tribes even among the Hebrews. How some were cursed and how this is panning out today with the cultural and spiritual wars of identity politics.

5) At what point should you decide to leave?

I think you have to know your belief and know the difference between that belief and when it deviates to the point it is not longer your belief.

All beliefs will have some minor variations but not core difference. Like Islam reject Christ as the Son of God. Yet we have the same God. Some denominations have different practices with that belief but not a different core belief. But other so called Christian groups have different core beliefs even.

All I know is for exammple Paul was pretty confident n what was the truth and what was not enough to say with authority that anyone who did not believe such things was a false teacher.

So I think its knowing what are the core truths that you cannot compromise on and when thats crossed you eaither remove anyone within the group as thios will undermine the group. Or you leave the group yourself if you think it has crossed the line.

The common prinicple is being of one mind and spirit. So regardless of who is right or wrong. A sign of bad fruit is division. If division is cultivated and the group cannot stand together in one mind and spirit. Then it has some fundemental issue. Either a lack of clear foundation. Or a lack of upholding this with weak leadership.

That could be a number of reasons. We live in a postmodern relativist culture and even the church has been influenced. Everything is made relative. So the idea of there being a single unifying truth is rejected. Therefore its harder to know what is truth or a lie.