Again what are YOU refering to when you say His Word? There are different interpretations of this commonly used term.
The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?
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Do you know the Spirit within me, of Who I speak. I have clarified Who He is in most of my quotes. The fruit in my life reveal Who lives within me.
Some people who don't agree with what I believe and what I say will without investigation claim that the indwelling Spirit is evil, a demon.
Wouldn't this be like the Pharisees accusing Jesus of being a servant of Beelzebub.
Then one possessed with a demon was brought to Him, blind and mute, and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. All the people were amazed and said, “Is He not the Son of David?”
But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “This Man does not cast out demons, except by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons.”
Yes, there are counterfeits, tares among the wheat. False prophets, teachers and apostles. But Jesus knew this and warned His first disciples about them. The angels did too but God said to not try and remove them until harvest time.
I will receive and obey what the Holy Spirit within me tells me. If what God wrote down and gave to Moses is different to what the Holy Spirit says to me than like Joshua, I will listen and believe what the Holy Spirit has spoken directly to my spirit.
You too can learn to hear and see what the Spirit of the Creator is communicating to you regardless of if it can or can't be found in the fragments of scriptures we have today.
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Ronald Nolette
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Well there were no popes for the first 400 years.
And Ignatius got it wrong! Rome did not become the headquarters of the church until after constantine was dead.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well how do you know every voice you hear is the Holy spirit? Satan masquerades as an angel of light and can imitate that still small voice well.
And I am speaking of the New Testament. The rules of the old have been superseded by the rules of the new
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Why? I already am well versed about how Ichthus was used.
Well He was a Pastor yes. But Paul corrected Corinth as well. did that make him a pope too?
Not phony, first time a Pastor from rome called themself Pope. Look it up yourself.
from Wiki:
Apostolic authority
[edit]
Irenaeus in the Nuremberg ChronicleIn his writing against the Gnostics, who claimed to possess a secret oral tradition from Jesus himself, Irenaeus claimed that the bishops in different cities are known as far back as the Apostles and that the oral tradition he lists from the Apostles is a safe guide to the interpretation of Scripture.
this is the classic definition of occult mysticism. Secret oral traditions passed down. No way to verify or prove right or wrong.
BreadOfLife
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And YOU can continue to live in denial. But, as I have amply shown – History proved you wrong . . .
WRONG.
As I already pointed to Pope Clement I (80 AD) in His Letter to the Corinthians - he was RULING on matters in the Church at Corinth from his Papal See in Rome.
- I also educated you about the decision made by Pope Victor I in the Quartodeciman Controversy in the 2nd century.
- I quoted Tertullian in his 2nd century letter, Di Pudicitia, with regard to Pope Callixtus.
These are ALL long before Constantine – as are the following:
Irenaeus
… here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church (Rome), because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).
Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church at Rome, in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).
So too, all the apostles are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he should desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).
So much for your counterfeit version of History . . .
BreadOfLife
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Why? Because YOU keep bringing it up . . .
Paul was evangelizing the Corinthians. Clement was not.
He ruled over them from Rome.
This is the most ridiculous argument you’re devised yet.
The word, “Pope” simply means “Papa” – Father. It is a term of endearment – NOT a title, which developed over time. “Pope” isn’t even an official title.
His official title include:
- Bishop of Rome
- Vicar of Jesus Christ, aka Vicar of Christ
- Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
- Primate of Italy
- Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
- Sovereign of the State of Vatican City
- Servant of the Servants of God
Soooo,Paul was being "occultic" when he yold the Thessalonians to "...hold fast to the Traditions they were taught - by ORAL statement or by Letter of ours"(2 Thess. 2:15)??
Fascinating . . .
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
That's like saying if you encounter God alone or in a worship service and get teary eyed it is fake and from the devil.
You know what the unpardonable sin is?
What you are doing.
Accusing me, that KNOWS MY GOD of being a fake pretender. Actually you copy the pharisees in ascribing God's power to the devil.
That is EXACTLY the accusations of the devil.
You make a great "accuser of the brethren"
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Hate to diminish your false doctrine.
Jn 18
5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.”[a] Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6 When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
The power of God hit them and they were knocked down. Ahem...BACKWARDS
Paul was probably knocked backwards as well.
You don't know how it happened, but your embarrassing false doctrine needs Paul falling forward.
What a ridiculous argument to try and explain away the power of God.
You need to stay away from haters, with time on their hands to attack charismatic brethren.
You need to take a step back and examine your heart to find out the source of that venom to have to the brethren that know God way deeper than your mental gospel doctrine.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Those that don't accept that the Lord Jesus personally oversaw what God wants mankind to kn ow to be put in written form via the Holy Ghost... will continue to be deceived by the devil that creates enmity between themselves and the Lord because they don't accept what the Lord has said thru His Word... this please the devil because it's an open door for doctrines of demons to be accepted by such individuals.
No, because the true Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ leads people in to ALL Truth (John 16:13) according to Jesus Who also said God's Word is Truth (John 17:17)
I know not what spirit you are of as I don't fellowship with spirits that are not of the Lord and I follow them not.
Yes and God's Word also teaches we should not follow doctrines of demons such as rejecting God putting His Word in written form and it containing all the God wants man to know, along with the demonic claim that God left the Word of God incomplete because God is absent mind and forgets stuff sometime and totally forgot to put important stuff His people should be aware of in His Word
Yeah, satan loves to use emotions to try and convince people they have connected with God all because they got goose bumps.
Hilarious... only those who are legends in their own mind who reject God's Word going by emotions... claim those going by God's Word are committing the unpardonable sin.
Gas light others all you want pal, that demonic garbage works not on me
When the false brethren reject God's Word... they stand accused of being the false brethren that they are.
The Lord warned about this in His Word... that the false brethren reject because they have been deceived by demons that God's Word is not.... God's Word.
1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Ha ha, those were the enemies of Jesus that were falling BACKWARDS!
Thank you for making my point!
I have been in a long term relationship with the Spirit of Christ. Decades in fact. So I have gotten to hear and know Him. And the great comfort is knowing that my Father, the Creator of all things, will not give me something harmful when I ask Him for truth. And if I hear Him incorrectly He will say it again until I get it. Parents are able to do this for their children, how much more our Father in heaven.
Yes, God does change things up from time to time.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry but if what you hear contradicts Scripture it is not from heaven. And if you suggest that God is changing the New Testament, you are sorely and demonically deceived.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Seems Irenaeus forgot the church was founded in Jerusalem. Paul was headquartered at Antioch long before he went to Rome. Rome was his last stop before His death.
Though there were believers in Rome there was no firmly established church. Rome was persecuting Christians and feeding them to the wild animals in the coliseum.
Many other cities had churches establisahed and Pastors (bishops) before Rome.
I just brought up the Dagon hat. It is the same miter as the dagon priests wore.
No RCC revisionist history is wrong. Rome was not central to teh church until after Constantine ended the waves of persecution. I(t was a key church but like many others, spent much time underground because of the ten waves of persecutions in the first three centuries.
Irenaaaeus is wrong again. All the churches did not agree. The Eastern churches did not fall in line.
BreadOfLife
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HUHH??
Irenaeus isn’t saying that the WHOLE Church was founded in Rome. He is talking about the Church AT Rome and how it was established by Peter and Paul.
By the way – Peter was also in Antioch before he went top Rome . . .
Soooo – if I have a German shepherd – I MUST be a follower of Hitler because HE had one too. What an asinine argument. The Christian ICHTHUS was the symbol for the Bishop’s mitre. To infer it is a “Dagon-worship” symbol is a ridiculous stretch. You would also have to establish the same practices and beliefs . . .
Revisionist history?? There’s no “Revisionism here. Only documented evidence that destroys your argument. I gave you PRE-Nicene evidence of Peter and Paul in Rome - and that it was the pre-eminent and authoritative Church.
Tell me - where is YOUR documented evidence to the contrary??
ALL the Churches didn’t agree. That doesn’t make Irenaeus “wrong”. We know that the Eastern Churches eventually split.
There were dozens of ECFs who agreed with Irenaeus.
We've already established the fact that God does contradict what He writes with what He says.
God wrote (with His own finger), do not kill (cut in pieces, murder).
God said to Joshua, kill (cut in pieces with the sword) all men, women, children and animals.
I'm not suggesting that God is changing the New Testament.
I don't believe God actually specifically told anyone to organise a compilation of scrolls to make available to the church.
Are you familiar with anyone having claimed hearing this instruction or command from God?
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
How do we know? The scriptures went through an intensive vetting process through the years
Criteria for Inclusion
Church leaders used several key tests to determine whether a book was truly inspired and should be part of the canon:- Apostolic Origin
- Was the book written by an apostle or someone close to one (e.g., Mark with Peter, Luke with Paul)?
- Orthodox Teaching
- Did it conform to sound doctrine and the "rule of faith" (early Christian teachings passed down from the apostles)?
- Widespread Use
- Was it used and accepted in churches across the known Christian world in public worship?
- Inspiration and Spiritual Impact
- Did the book bear evidence of being inspired by the Holy Spirit and edifying to believers?
2nd Century
- Early church fathers like Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Tertullian cite most NT books.
- Muratorian Fragment composed in 170 ad
- Heretical movements (e.g., Marcion) prompted a clearer definition of accepted texts.
3rd Century
- Origen lists books as "recognized" and "disputed."
- Core 4 Gospels, Acts, Pauline letters, and Revelation increasingly accepted.
4th Century
- Athanasius of Alexandria (367 AD): First full list of 27 NT books matching our modern canon.
- Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) ratified these books as canon.
- Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate Bible, solidifying much of the Western canon.
Reformation and Differences
- Protestants (16th century): Rejected the Deuterocanonical books, returning to the Hebrew Old Testament.
- Catholics (Council of Trent, 1546): Reaffirmed the inclusion of Deuterocanonical books.
- Orthodox Churches: Have similar but slightly expanded canons
The canon of Scripture was not chosen arbitrarily. It emerged from:
- Careful discernment by the early church.
- Rigorous criteria grounded in apostolic authority and theological integrity.
- The providential guidance of the Holy Spirit across the global body of believers.
Yet I ask a simple question. Who did God specifically ask to form a biblical canon. When did God say to close it and to whom did He command it?
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?
“The Church” IS Headed, WAS Organized, Established, Made…Of, By, Through, For, Christ the Lord Jesus…
“The Church” Membership WAS / IS Presented and Offered to manKIND to Hear, Learn, Freely Join…
Of, By, Through, For, Christ the Lord Jesus.
“The Members” (so freely adjoined together), ARE beacons IN the World, OF they “IN” Christ, Testaments STANDING “IN” Agreement “WITH” Christ Jesus…
OF the Fullness Subjection…OF:
Belief, Trust, Faith, Worship exclusively “UNTO” the Lord God Almighty…
“exclusively” FOR….HIS SUPREME GLORY, HIS ETERNAL INHERITANCE;
IN Heaven AND ON Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
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