VictoryinJesus
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To answer your question straightforward. that is assuming we aren’t following a false gospel
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The devil's lie in Christian music
- Thread starter Hepzibah
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Dash RipRock
Active Member
It's only "false" to those who accept the word of the devil over the Word of God.
The Apostle Paul was stoned and left for dead by a group of Jews in Lystra, as described in Acts 14:19-20. However, he miraculously recovered and continued his missionary work the next day and he faced other near deaths as well
2 Corinthians 11:24-27 - Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
The man obviously knew how to receive healing and health from the Lord.
It's very comical that people believe the devil's story about Paul rather than what God's Word says which was the thorn was a messenger of satan, a demon sent by satan to follow Paul around and disrupt His ministry
And so today we see people laying down under the dominion of the devil claiming God is bring the bad things in to their lives just like the devil is leading them to believe
James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted tested or tried, I am tempted tested and tried of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Well then by all means, people believing what the devil says should enjoy them some physical suffering!
You posted your opinion based on your point of view which does not actually reflect God's promises.
Those believing what the devil says should enjoy them some physical suffering and quit belly aching about it!
If it's God's will for people to suffer physically then WHY are they going to the doctor to try and get rid of what God wants them to have???
That would be sinful behavior and be refusing to submit to the will of the Lord.
So those believing God wants them to experience physical suffering should quit trying to get out of it by going to doctors and should quit asking people to pray for them to get out of it, that is IF they actually believe God is engaging in child abuse by putting evil upon His children.
Bottom line is, Paul ask the Lord to remove the devil off of him that satan had sent... and God did NOT say no as the devil claims... the Lord told Paul His grace was sufficient as in what did you receive by grace Paul?... Later on as Paul grew in the Lord he got delivered from his affliction (2 TIMOTHY 3:11) and the last record we have of Paul says NO MAN was forbidding him from preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Acts 28:30-31)
2 Timothy 3:11 - Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me
So, Paul went from seeing the devil cause all kinds of trouble for him every where he went to being delivered from all his afflictions and nobody stopping him from preaching. This all happened because of what the Lord has provided to His people by grace so in the end... Paul learned what the Lord meant by “my grace is sufficient”...
Paul was not a sissy like most modern day Christian men!
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Dash RipRock
Active Member
The devil is the one spreading the rumor that we don't need God's Word anymore.
He wants people to believe this because skillful use of God's Word is our offensive weapon (Sword of the Spirit) and satan is tricking people in to throwing down our most important weapon and the result is defeat for Christians following the devil's leading.
I'm saying those that don't know God's Word of course wouldn't know.
Drawest they own conclusions, or not.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I told you from the beginning I do not mind you having an opinion.
Christian music is a category of music…..beauty is in the eyes of the beholder…..But you never really made a specific point other than to be offensive to celebrating God with music or worship hymns. Just a mindless negative to Christianity.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
You know you kind of jump too far ahead of the story to discredit what God did do.
I think that's really a shame because you bypass God's will based on what a man did later on.
And as anabaptists, we don't necessarily agree with Luther, for obvious reasons if you know church history, but we still read his writings and have the intellectual common sense to know right and wrong, and the understanding no man but Jesus was perfect.
No, healing in the Atonement is false. I showed why from God's word. Just flatly contradicting what I showed doesn't do anything to establish I'm mistaken in understanding God's word, or that you're correct in your belief about healing. You're just contradicting. This is no more than children do in arguments with each other on the playground.
No, the account in Acts 14 says nothing - not a word - about Paul "miraculously recovering" from his stoning. This is your addition to the account. Also, the account in Acts says that those who stoned Paul supposed he was dead, which indicates that they hadn't made certain that he was and mistook his unconsciousness for death. The implication in this is that Paul wasn't, in fact, dead, as his attackers believed. That he regained consciousness and left Iconium has nothing, then, of the miraculous in it. People do this often. Just watch some professional boxing, or MMA fights.
??? Where in this passage does Paul speak of "receiving healing and health from the Lord"? Where does he say he "knew how" to do this? Nowhere. Again, you're inserting your own ideas into the text and in doing so contorting it and arriving at false conclusions about what it communicates. Paul simply chronicled briefly some of the hardships he faced in service to God. He says not a word about God relieving him of the challenges and afflictions of his service, providing him with health, wealth and happiness instead.
It's not comical to me how much you're contorting God's word in service to your mistaken belief. As I showed from Paul's own words about his "thorn in the flesh" (2 Co. 12:7-10) he was not facing demonic resistance to his work as an apostle of the Early Church but suffering a chronic physical affliction that made him "weak" in some way. Neither "in the flesh" nor "weak" suggest an external challenge that Paul faced as his "thorn in the flesh," as you propose. Yes, the physical affliction had a demonic source, but it was nonetheless a physical weakness for Paul that resulted. And God did nothing to relieve the affliction, keeping it in place in order to keep Paul humble and dependent upon Himself (vs. 7, 9). Nowhere in the passage does Paul say that a demon followed him around disrupting his ministry. No, instead Paul wrote that the messenger of Satan buffeted himself directly (vs. 7). This is all flatly and clearly stated by Paul which makes your reworking of his statement so concerning. I wonder, then, how much of the rest of God's word you treat in the same way, and how off-the-rails doctrinally you are now, as a result. No, there's nothing comical in this, at all.
Have you not read the book of Job? Goodness. What of the experience of Jesus who, in fulfilling the will of the Father, suffered much opposition, persecution and, finally, death? God did not spare His own Son but directed him to the horrors of the cross in fulfillment of His will. No, you've got the wrong end of the stick about Paul and God, I'm afraid.
Also, James 1:13 doesn't apply to this matter. It's speaking of temptation, not of the necessary suffering God uses to temper us, teach us and is an unavoidable part of fulfilling His will in an evil world.
It's what God's word says, not the devil. You've yet to demonstrate this isn't the case.
Again, this is just unfounded contradiction, not a thoughtful scripturally-careful rebuttal of what I've shown from Scripture. What I've posted is simply what God's word plainly says, not personal opinion.
Do you know what a non sequitur is? What you wrote here is a good example of one. Your characterization of what I've shown from Scripture is also what is called a Strawman. Do you know what this is? I'll tell you this much about them: Both a non sequitur and a Strawman are fallacious forms of argument. The rest of what you should know about these fallacies you can look up for yourself online.
It doesn't follow that, because God sometimes afflicts His children physically, all physical affliction is, therefore, God's doing. Many times, Christians suffer at their own hands, doing stupid, dangerous, sinful things that cause them (sometimes permanent) harm. At other times, living in an imperfect world means Christians suffer because of the stupidity, carelessness and/or wickedness of others. God is not directly responsible in either of these cases for the afflictions that come upon His children.
This is the sort of silly conclusion one will come to when one doesn't know how to reason well. See above.
Paul asked God three times to remove the "thorn" in his flesh. Why? Because the first two times God said "No." Obviously. Instead, of doing as Paul wanted, God told Paul His grace was sufficient for Paul to endure the "thorn" of weakness that was in his flesh (which was likely blindness, or near-blindness). Paul spoke of this affliction at other points in his various letters:
Galatians 4:13-15
13 but you know that it was because of a bodily illness that I preached the gospel to you the first time;
14 and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.
15 Where then is that sense of blessing you had? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me.
2 Corinthians 10:10
10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak...
This sounds to me very much like God DID say "No" to Paul. How you can conclude otherwise given Paul's plain statement is quite baffling to me.
2 Timothy 3:10-12
10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance,
11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me!
12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
We know that in the instance at Iconium, Paul was "rescued" by the Lord, not by keeping Paul from being injured (by stoning), but by keeping him from being killed. And Paul says that he endured persecution and suffering at Antioch and Lystra, not that he avoided these things in these places. In light of the "rescue" he received from God at Iconium, what sort of "rescue" did Paul get at these other places, do you think? As he said to Timothy, he did not escape either place without persecution and suffering.
Acts 28:30-31
30 And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him,
31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.
I don't see how this passage has any bearing on the matter of Paul's chronic physical affliction. His rented quarters and unhindered preaching don't preclude still being afflicted.
This is a gross misrepresentation of what Scripture actually says. See above.
And I told you - and showed you - that what I've said about proper worship of God is not opinion, but the plain statement of God's word.
In this thread, I've been specifically speaking to the matter of praise and worship music, not the broader category of Christian music which can encompass many other subjects and purposes besides worship of God. I think you know this but want to try to draw me into a discussion of this broader area since my remarks about praise and worship of God are difficult to extend over the broader region of all Christian music. Well, I'm not going to take your bait.
Again, what I've shown from Scripture about proper worship of God is not opinion but what God's word clearly states.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Let's see the plain statement of God.
And what does God clearly states......All I see is what you believe.....I am sure that most will not agree.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Which is based on what the Lord says in His Word instead of the wisdom of carnally minded religious men who are listening to the devil who is telling them they don't need to pay attention to what God says.
That's where the anabaptists went wrong - they read the writings of false teachers rather than throwing the false teacher's writings out and adhering to God's Word instead.
Anybody who likes to play with false doctrine ends up falling in to false doctrine. Playing with darkness brings forth darkness.
The Holy Spirit never leads people to read after the wisdom of men, but instead leads people in to all God's Word which is Truth as per John 16:13, and John 17:17
You reject God's promises for healing and so for you healing is not something the Lord will ever provide for you
You come way to late to tell me God does not heal today as I've been walking in it for years!
God still heals today, but those that reject His promises of healing don't have to worry about it because God will not be healing them at all.
Unlike some here, Paul knew the scriptures and God has a long track record of providing healing for His people and He changes not.
Yes, Job tells us what broke the hedge of protection that God had placed around him - Job was walking in fear!
(Job said what I feared came upon me, so he admitted to being in fear which is sinful behavior)
Jesus says in the Book of Revelation that fear causes people to go to hell so we know fear is a sin, so Job lit the fuse that caused the hedge of protection to be broken which is why God did not object to the devil beating up on Job, because we reap what we sow God is not mocked.
Hang in there man, maybe someday you'll get delivered from the wisdom of man that you have been indoctrinated with and be able to accept all that the Lord says in His Word.
I follow the Lord Jesus Christ who is NOT bringing suffering on me. Jesus said the devil is the one stealing, killing, and destroying.
John 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
The devil is the one putting sickness and suffering on people.
That all depends on who you are calling "god"
OK, so when your god puts sickness and suffering on you - you never go to the doctor to try to get out of what your god desires for you to suffer right?
If you do go to the doctor to try to get better, than means you are trying to NOT be in the will of your god.
This is the sort of silly conclusion one will come to when one doesn't know God's Word.
The devil is the one claiming God said no.
God saying "no" is not in the text! That's your eisegesis which is personal interpretation of the Bible using your own ideas instead of what God actually said.
Hang in there man, maybe someday you'll get delivered from the wisdom of man that you have been indoctrinated with and be able to accept all that the Lord says in His Word.
@Dash RipRock, yes. You're right. There are many different opinions and things which come from the bible that people think is right or wrong. They jip people of their money, and jip people of their time, and some people lose their lives listening to some preacher behind the pulpit. The Bible, is a spiritual guide and help to those whom are truly seeking to know God.
I don't disagree at all, but once you do so, you don't always have to read it over and over and over again, it's okay to take some breaks. And as long as you know how to live and abide in Yeshua, and live freely worshiping Yahavah in spirit and truth.
What a freedom that does bring, especially freedom from bondage of having to "do" something in order to be made right with Yahavah other than believing in the name of his Son, and loving ones neighbor as their selves.
'Preciate ya.
I don't disagree at all, but once you do so, you don't always have to read it over and over and over again, it's okay to take some breaks. And as long as you know how to live and abide in Yeshua, and live freely worshiping Yahavah in spirit and truth.
What a freedom that does bring, especially freedom from bondage of having to "do" something in order to be made right with Yahavah other than believing in the name of his Son, and loving ones neighbor as their selves.
'Preciate ya.
See my earlier posts. Pretending I haven't already cited Scripture doesn't somehow negate that I have.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Jesus said the words I speak they are Spirit and they are Life (John 6:63)
Meditating, speaking, and acting on God's Word does for the spirit and the soul what eating food does for the body, it provides strength.
Hebrews 2:1 - we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Don't thank me, thank God friend. He is the one whom helps us in this life.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Dash RipRock
Active Member
You said "No one suggest otherwise bud. Thanks."
So, don't thank me, thank God friend. He is the one whom helps us in this life.
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