The one who is still to come
- Thread starter Matthias
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This thread was started because a Catholic member asked me yesterday to explain how Revelation 1:8 - which we both agreed is the Father speaking - is compatible with Jewish monotheism.
It stemmed from a comment I had made earlier to him that, “Every scripture you quoted when properly explained fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.”
How could it not?
It stemmed from a comment I had made earlier to him that, “Every scripture you quoted when properly explained fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.”
How could it not?
Only in a world gone mad would trinitarian scholarship offered by a Jewish monotheist in support of the position taken by a trinitarian on a particular passage of scripture cause such turmoil from trinitarians as witnessed in this thread.
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I’m a Jewish monotheist and I’m able to agree with much that is written in trinitarian scholarship. (Most of what I know about theology I‘ve learned from trinitarian scholars.) That measure of agreement - however much or little it might be - should logically be welcomed by trinitarians. Sometimes it is.
***
I’m a Jewish monotheist and I’m able to agree with much that is written in trinitarian scholarship. (Most of what I know about theology I‘ve learned from trinitarian scholars.) That measure of agreement - however much or little it might be - should logically be welcomed by trinitarians. Sometimes it is.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Across the great chasm between heaven and earth there is only One God. It is only when communicating beyond that dividing point that "us", and terms like "Father" and "Son" exist.
The divide is the divide of many things revealed of God that are not otherwise divided--like (for example) eternity: The gift of eternal life does not mean we all get our own little piece of eternity to stop the clocks from ticking. No, but rather, what could not be divided (eternity)--seemingly impossible, was divided into the incrementalism of time. This is the gift of eternal life. Energy and light from God in the creation resulted in the composition of matter, where eternity divided is time, and space is the manifestation and evidence of the divide--all equaling space, time, and matter.
The terms (and the need for "rightly dividing" them) between matters of heaven and earth, then, is simply a translation between the two different contexts of heaven and earth, "rightly" divided.
To answer your question above-- How would you suppose "time" is "rightly" defined in heaven. The answer regarding Jesus and the Father, is answered the same way: In heaven they are not divided, but One. And only in this world are they divided, just as is true of time vs. eternity.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The is the thinking of men, world talk. If you are not open to thinking differently, we're finished, you're finished. But why would you stop following the full trajectory? Many have, just as it is written.
Trinitarians and I have been able to agree that it is the Father speaking in Revelation 1:8.
Trinitarians have disagreed with trinitarians and me that it is the Father speaking in Revelation 1:8.
It’s the trinitarians who are divided on the question asked in the OP. I can’t resolve that dispute for the trinitarians.
What I’ve explained to at least one trinitarian is how this particular passage of scripture fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism. That is what he asked me to do. (It is my contention that all passages of scripture do agree with his own Jewish monotheism.)
Jesus and His Father are one when Jesus sits on the throne of his Father becoming subject to him like the scripture says.
To see Jesus is to see Yahweh.
God and Gods Word which he had spoke together again = LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
At least to me in my opinion. *Im not a person who believes in the trinity.
To see Jesus is to see Yahweh.
God and Gods Word which he had spoke together again = LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
At least to me in my opinion. *Im not a person who believes in the trinity.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I have explained the matter for you: such divisions (even as One God being two persons) only exist in this world.
You and I are finished.
The full trajectory is finished in the New Testament. The church gradually went beyond that in subsequent centuries, beginning in the 2nd century.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in the trinity. It's just a tradition that is believed on. Believing in it doesn't make one more right with Yahavah/Yahweh.
What does make a person right with God ? But faith in his Son. It aint all the other dramaticas.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
That is because what was One was divided and then is reunited in the end. That is the full trajectory. One putting His own right hand to a task for a time, does not make for two--except among men, who themselves are divided out of God as Eve was divided out of Adam. Do you understand and know this to be true?
Jesus is a Jewish monotheist. I’m a Jewish monotheist. Jewish monotheists do not believe the one God is divisible.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
First off, I am not a "trinitarian."
But what I have been addressing, explains why those who have believed in a Trinity, have not been wrong, but rather only shortsighted. Meaning, they have only considered things according to this world where all is divided out of God--even Christ, just as Eve was divided out of Adam.
I’ve known that for three years. Now anyone here who didn’t (if there are any) and those who will come here (in the future) has heard it from your own mouth. That’s the way it should be. I respect that.
Maybe they’ll agree with you. I leave that entirely in their hands.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Good, that's a start. However, we have been discussing matters regarding both heaven and earth, where exists a divide. Which, whatever ism position you prescribe to, doesn't mean you can deny the hand of God is actually God...that is without denying God. But it goes so much deeper than that--
That’s also the finish, as far as I’m concerned. You might persuade some of the trinitarians. Some are more zealous than others. That’s between you and them. As I frequently find myself saying, let everyone be persuaded in their own mind. I’ll leave you to it, but this thread is about who is speaking in Revelation 1:8. Perhaps you could start a new thread for them.
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