Scriptures that Refute Calvinism

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PinSeeker

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You mean like "hyper-calvinism".... that is a overemphasis on the doctrines of John Calvinism?
Who is John Calvinism? <chuckles>

Behold, either you don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the actual difference between Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism.

Hyper-Calvinism is not "an over emphasis of Calvin's teachings," but on rather is the belief that God saves the elect through His sovereign will with little or no use of the methods of bringing about salvation (such as evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost). To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God’s sovereignty and under-emphasizes man’s responsibility in the work of salvation. Hyper-Calvinism takes a biblical doctrine, God’s sovereignty, and pushes it to an unbiblical extreme. In doing so, the hyper-Calvinist downplays the love of God and the necessity of evangelism.

So, how many Calvinists have you met that dont believe in TULIP......that has that "L" in it?
Ah, yes, the concept of limited atonement. You know, there are "four-point Calvinists" out there, and the 'L' is usually the one they can't digest, much the same as you in that respect. But this is not the dividing line between Calvinists and Hyper-Calvinists; see above.

Anyway, yes, such a repulsive concept to so many, but because they don't understand the sense in which it is limited. Or just won't accept it for one reason or another. As I have said, there is a sense in which it is unlimited, but also another sense in which it is limited. to the latter, consider what Jesus says in John 10 to a group of Jews at the Feast of Dedication:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10:27-30)​

It's easy to see in what the Lord says there that not everyone hears His voice, but only His sheep, and He knows His sheep, which is not a mere cognitive thing, because in that sense Jesus, Who is God, knows everyone and everything. Too, Jesus says that in the final Judgment, to many He will say, "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:23). The limited nature of Christ's atonement is in the very same sense. Yes, Christ's atonement was sufficient for everyone, limitless in that respect. But it was only effectual for God's elect, so limited in that respect, and the latter is the context of John Calvin's 'L'... limited atonement.

So, when I teach on Calvinism.......im aiming at that group, of Hyper-Calvinism maniacs......these ultra-disciples of J-Calvinism, who stress that "Limited Atonement" that is the main teaching that denies The Cross of Christ.
Your aim is... way off. Friendly fire, actually...

...this false teaching denies the Blood of Jesus to "Sinners"...
But it doesn't. It only affirms that, while there is a sense in which Jesus's atonement was indeed for the world, there is also a sense in which it is only for the ones the Father has given the Son.

...and relegates it to "only the elect" "predestined".
Hmmm, well, it can be a hard truth, but God Himself says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So, yes, "He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills" (Romans 9:14-18). Only God's elect are the ones who are... or will be, in the case of those who have not yet been born again... are/will be in Christ, those He has given/will give eternal life.

See that Cross Denying Lie?
I see what you think is a "cross-denying lie," yes. But God's Word says what it says. It is what it is. "The grass withers, and the flower fades, but the Word of our God stands/endures forever" (Isaiah, Peter). Again, depending on the sense in which one understands it, Jesus's atonement is both unlimited (sufficient for all, able to cover all) and limited (applied only to some, only effectual for Jesus's sheep, the ones given to Him by the Father).

.. That is the ultra-proof that TULIP is a "doctrine of Devils"......Hebews 13:9
Pish.

Grace and peace to you, Behold.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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One could say that you, Big Boy, follow suit with Jacobus Arminius

I learned from God's Word that He gave man free will because God created man in His image long before I ever heard of this Artimus character.



However, if you actually understood any one of Calvin's five points ~ which were actually only his rebuttals to Jacobus Arminius's five "objections"... Calvin's body of work was far, far greater than a mere five points ~ you might actually reconsider things...

I go by what God's Word teaches and based on that all 5 points of calvin are fake gospel nonsense.

But by all means, feel free to ignore God's Word and be a follower of calvin and see what happens to ya

It's our right to follow whoever we want to follow, so I'll go with Jesus instead of calvin or atimus who mean nothing to me.
 
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Behold

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Who is John Calvinism? <chuckles>

You are a John Calvinism's disciple, so, do i have to explain to you why?'

Notice that you are here on the Forum taking a stand for this denonic Heretic......same as any other disciple of this MAN.

Hyper-Calvinism is not "an over emphasis of Calvin's teachings,"

Yes it is........and that is why its called "HYPER" Calvinism.

sense in which Jesus's atonement was indeed for the world, there is also a sense in which it is only for the ones the Father has given the Son.

Jesus once said that "all these that you have given me, i have lost none"...

So, that is Jesus talking about the Apostles..... only.

John Calvinism, twists that verse to fit His (pre-destined) doctrine of devils..... Hebrews 13:9 (KJV).


Hmmm, well, it can be a hard truth, but God Himself says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

Exaclty, and God has mercy on everyone.........as proven by. John 3:16.... "For God so loved the WORLD (of sinners)..""


"Jesus came into the WORLD to save "sinners".. and Lying John Calvinism and his deceived disciples deny this and change "world" into "predestined".

God doesn't.
 

PinSeeker

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I learned from God's Word that He gave man free will because God created man in His image long before I ever heard of this Artimus character.
Strange statement... but a defensive thing, I get it. The issue is not about man's will, free or not, it is about the state of man's heart, his spirit, which is naturally at enmity with God, of his father the devil rather than of the Father.

I go by what God's Word teaches...
As do I, of course, but some of us understand God's Word... specifically regarding soteriology... along the same lines as Calvin (and Augustine over a century before Calvin) did, as opposed to understanding it along the same lines as Arminius (and Pelagius in Augustine's day) did.

and based on that all 5 points of calvin are fake gospel nonsense.

But by all means, feel free to ignore God's Word and be a follower of calvin and see what happens to ya..
Well now that's nonsense. We're talking specifically about soteriology ~ who does what in salvation ~ and not the Gospel, the good news of Christ Jesus, on which we all presumably agree. However, to what you say here, I could say the same thing about your Arminianism, but that would likewise be nonsense.

It's our right to follow whoever we want to follow...
And yours. But again, your insinuation regarding following someone is... misguided... None of us actually follows Calvin or Arminius in even remotely the same sense as we are followers ~ disciples ~ of Jesus Christ.

, so I'll go with Jesus instead of calvin or atimus who mean nothing to me.
Even though you're going with "atimus"... LOL!

Calvin published rebuttals before Artimus ever published his objections. :funlaugh2
Well, his writings and teachings were widely known and accepted yes. But as I say, when Jacobus Arminius went public with his five objections, there was no real rebuttal, per se, from Calvin, but just in effect refutations from Calvin's much wider body of work. You can't rewrite history, Big Boy, no matter how much you deny it or how hard you try. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.
 

Behold

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As do I, of course, but some of us understand God's Word...

A Calvinist always pretends that being a diciple of John Calvinism, is "knowing the bible". is "a real Christian".


Well, his writings and teachings were widely known and accepted yes.

What you meant to say.......if you want to try some honesty.........is. :

"Calvin's writings, are accepted by Calvinists" and avoided by real Bible Students.

So, here is the problem with your continued faulty mindset.. @PinSeeker

God is not a Calvinist.
Jesus is not a Calvinist
Paul is not a Calvinist
The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinist
The BIBLE does not teach Calvinism, unless its being twisted into John Calvinism, by a deceived Calvinist.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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The issue is not about man's will, free or not, it is about the state of man's heart

Man decides to either accept God or reject Him.

This is evident because God is going to hold every person responsible for their actions.

If man had no free will then God would be unjust to hold every person responsible for their actions.

God is not stupid as some listening to the devil claim.




some of us understand God's Word... specifically regarding soteriology... along the same lines as Calvin (and Augustine over a century before Calvin)

Nobody that knows the Lord and His Word would follow heretics such as Calvin and Augustine

Their teachings are based in scripture twisting and ignoring large portions of God's Word.




We're talking specifically about soteriology ~ who does what in salvation ~ and not the Gospel

People wanting their ears tickled will continue to enjoy the teaching of those doing the ear tickling.




your insinuation regarding following someone is... misguided...

Paul said those following men are carnal. Followers of Calvin and Augustine are still carnal.

Those that know the Lord follow the Lord based on what God actually says in His Word.




Even though you're going with "atimus"... LOL!

I'll continue with Jesus instead of calvin or atimus who mean nothing to me.

God's Word teaches man has free will. Carnal minded people wouldn't understand having been blinded by the wisdom of men.




You can't rewrite history, Big Boy, no matter how much you deny it or how hard you try

The history I follow is what the Lord said in His Word.

Unlike some, I've been all my years studying what God has said, not what man has said
 

PinSeeker

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You are a John Calvinism's disciple...
Again, who is John Calvinism? <smile>

Ahhh, no, I'm not in any way John Calvin's disciple... congratulations on spelling 'disciple' right... <smile>. But in that vein, I could say the exact same thing but inserting Arminius's name in the place of "Calvinism's"...

, so, do i have to explain to you why?'
No need; it would be an... exposition... of nonsense, an exercise in futility.

Notice that you are here on the Forum taking a stand for this denonic Heretic.....
Neither John Calvin nor Jacobus Arminius were "denomic Heretics." That's ridiculous. The effect of the teachings of Arminius, however (and Pelagius over a century before him) is to give at least some measure of glory to man, and that is completely contrary to the Bible and to God, Who says, "My glory I will not give to another" (Isaiah 48:11). His is, as we pray, the kingdom and the power, and the glory, forever and ever.

Yes it is........
No, it's not.

and that is why its called "HYPER" Calvinism.
What you refer to as "HYPER" Calvinism. But no, Calvinism is Calvinism... it is what it is; there is no "hyper-Calvinism" in the context in which you use that term. As I said, though, there is, though something beyond Calvinism ~ an abuse of it, really, a carrying it too far... that's what the prefix 'hyper' indicates ~ that is then classified as hyper-Calvinism.

Jesus once said that "all these that you have given me, i have lost none"... So, that is Jesus talking about the Apostles..... only.
He said that, for sure, but absolutely not. He was speaking of His sheep, of which you and I are two.

...doctrine of devils...
Pish.

God has mercy on everyone.........as proven by. John 3:16.... "For God so loved the WORLD (of sinners)..""
Well, two things:

1. Then why is not everyone saved, Behold? Because as Paul says in Romans 9 regarding God's elect (yet again), God "has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." This is just after he has said, in Romans 8, "we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified." "Those whom," "those whom," "those whom"... obviously and undeniably a group of folks less than the whole; God did not predestine, call, justify, or glorify all people, and I know you will agree with that because you are not a universalist.

2. In John 3:16, John is quoting Jesus, of course, and Jesus, in His conversation with Nicodemus, is referring directly to what the prophet Joel wrote, that "it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls" (Joel 2:32). Read that verse carefully. Everyone, yes, but that 'everyone' is not every person, but rather all whom the Lord calls... Paul says the same thing, in direct reference to Joel's prophecy also, in Romans 10:16-17, "there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing His riches on all who call on him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'" So, any one person's calling on the name of the Lord depends first on his or her having been called by the Lord, which is exactly what Paul says in Romans 9:16 ~ "it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" ~ and Ephesians 2:4-5 ~ "...God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved..."

"Jesus came into the WORLD to save "sinners"...
Yes, but not all sinners will be saved. And knowing that, coupled with the facts that God's purposes cannot be thwarted (Job 42:2) and that God's Word does not return to Him empty, but accomplishes all which He purposes and succeeds in the thing for which He sent it (Isaiah 55:11, and God is of course talking about Jesus, the Word made flesh, Whom He sent), the limited nature of Christ's atonement is undeniable.

and Lying John Calvinism and his deceived disciples...
John "Calvinism" (Calvin) had/has no disciples.

...change "world" into "predestined".
Pish. As I have said, there is most certainly a sense in which Jesus died for the world (to make salvation possible for all), but also most certainly a sense in which His atonement what only for the ones God purposed from all eternity to save, the ones who were, according to His will, predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, those whom He chose before the foundation of the world (Paul, Ephesians 1:4-5).

A Calvinist always pretends that being a diciple of John Calvinism, is "knowing the bible". is "a real Christian".
LOL! I, for one ~ even being the unapologetic "five-point Calvinist" that I am... <smile> ~ am not a "disciple of John Calvinism (or John Calvin... <smile> ~ but merely understand God's Word, specifically regarding soteriology, as John Calvin (and Augustine over a century before Calvin) did. Furthermore, I am not claiming to know the Bible any better than anyone else, except in the sense of accepting what it says... what God says... regarding who does what in salvation, which is of the Lord, not of man.

"Calvin's writings, are accepted by Calvinists".
Hmmm, well okay, but in the same vein, Arminius's writings are accepted by Arminians ~ whether they claim to be Arminians or not, and even whether they know who he was or not. So, in the same vein as what you said, God is not an Arminian, Jesus is not an Arminian, Paul is not an Arminian, the Holy Spirit is not an Arminian.

The BIBLE does not teach Calvinism...
Well of course not, because John Calvin lived about a centuries after the Bible was written... <smile> But what John Calvin wrote and taught was and is correct according to the Bible, God's Word (as opposed to Arminius and his objections to said Calvin writings and teachings). This centuries-... even millennia-... old disagreement really has nothing to do with John Calvin or Jacobus Arminius.

, unless its being twisted into John Calvinism.
As I said before... well, quoted, actually, from God's inerrant, infallible (un-twistable) Word, "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the Word of the Lord remains forever" (Peter, quoting Isaiah, 1 Peter 1:25).

Grace and peace to you, Behold.
 
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PinSeeker

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Man decides to either accept God or reject Him.
Yes, of course, but again, as Paul says, "What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy... He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." (Paul, not John Calvin, quoting Moses, who quoted God Himself in Exodus, Romans 9:14-18).

...God is going to hold every person responsible for their actions.
Agreed. We will all be judged according to what we have done.

If man had no free will then God would be unjust to hold every person responsible for their actions.
Agreed. Neither John Calvin nor any Calvinist worth his or her salt ever said or insinuated man had or has no free will. But again, it's not about the will or whether it is free or not but about the state of the heart, the spirit in a person, which always, at any given time in that person's life, drives the will.

God is not stupid as some listening to the devil claim.
Okay, but who's "listening to the devil"? LOL! Well, unbelievers, for sure, whether they know it or not...


Nobody that knows the Lord and His Word would follow heretics such as Calvin and Augustine...
Neither Augustine, nor Pelagius, nor Calvin, nor Arminius were heretics.

Their teachings are based in scripture twisting and ignoring large portions of God's Word.
Name one. Regarding ignoring, that would be inadvertent, really, but is ~ as I have demonstrated to both Behold and you, here ~ solely attributable to Arminian Christians. That's certainly not to say they are "less Christian" or "not as Christian" as Calvinists, but they're just... mistaken. Which is okay, really.

People wanting their ears tickled will continue to enjoy the teaching of those doing the ear tickling.
Unless the Holy Spirit intervenes, yes.

Paul said those following men are carnal.
Sure. They have exchanged the truth for a lie, and worship creation rather than the creator, despite the fact that all that can be known about God has been clearly shown to them. Yes, absolutely.

Followers of Calvin and Augustine are still carnal.
No, and neither are followers of Pelagius and Arminius. And... followers after, meaning believing about certain things in God's Word as they did, not remotely in the sense of being disciples, actual followers of Christ, which we all are.

Those that know the Lord follow the Lord based on what God actually says in His Word.
Absolutely. But why do they know ~ know, so love, actually ~ the Lord? Remember what Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16...

I'll continue with Jesus instead of calvin or atimus who mean nothing to me.
LOL! Okay, Fair enough... <smile>

God's Word teaches man has free will.
Yes, but it also teaches that God is completely sovereign over His creation. Paul anticipates these objections in Romans 9, most notably by saying/asking, rhetorically, the following, from Romans 9:19-24:

"You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"

The history I follow is what the Lord said in His Word.
Okay, fair enough, but... at least inadvertently, not all of it. <smile> You know, not that I actually "follow" Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel, but in these conversations, I keep hearing this great lyric from their song The Boxer (1968), "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..."

Unlike some, I've been all my years studying what God has said...
Well now that sounds at least a bit like the guy who said to Jesus, "All these I have kept from my youth..." (Mark 10:20, Luke 18:21) <raised eyebrow>

Grace and peace to you.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The calvinists are quick to break fellowship with, and falsely accuse, any Christian that contradicts their own theology.

It's the calvinists who are shut out due to their false doctrine as they will find out about in the end.
Well I know many many Calvinists who prove you lie. But Armeniasts and Calvinists will do that both. Hate and exclusion is not reserved to one system of belief.

But still waiting for you to show what these false doctrines are from Scripture.

As you have condemned the five points as heretical, you believe the following:

Man is not dead in sins and trespasses
There are conditions someone must mees in order to be saved (apart from accepting Christ)
YOu believe in unlimited atonement so that means you accept universal salvation.
You believe children of god can lose their salvation, eternal life and become un-born again.

Would like ot see your biblical defense for your beliefs.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Well I know many many Calvinists who prove you lie

I'm going by what God's Word teaches not what Calvin teaches so it's not wise when people call God a liar.



But still waiting for you to show what these false doctrines are from Scripture.

Those not paying attention, like they don't pay attention to God's Word instead being too busy following men, wouldn't know I already did - See Post #71, and Post #72, and Post #73



You believe in unlimited atonement so that means you accept universal salvation.

No, the Lord provided for all men to be saved which does not automatically mean all men are saved.

The ilk of calvinism claims God decided to assign most people of hell before they were even even born that's because calvinism serves satan and his deceptions so they claim god is a monster because they are serving the monster, satan.
 

PinSeeker

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I'm going by what God's Word teaches not what Calvin teaches...
A distinction with no difference... I mean, not to put John Calvin on equal footing with God, of course, or anywhere close to it, but... <smile>

so it's not wise when people call God a liar.
Nobody's lying.

the Lord provided for all men to be saved which does not automatically mean all men are saved.
THAT is EXACTLY CORRECT, Big Boy. Fantastic. So you should understand that Christ's atonement is unlimited in the sense of the first half of what you say here, and limited in the latter half. And the latter is the sense in which John Calvin's "limited atonement" is firmly couched.

The ilk of calvinism claims God decided to assign most people of hell before they were even even born...
Nok the "ilk of Calvinism"... part of it anyway... is that all people are deserving of Hell even from conception, because their very nature is sinful; they are dead in their sin and in need of being reborn of the Spirit. But God has mercy on some, which He is not obligated to do, but does so of His own will and through His grace.

...calvinism serves satan and his deceptions so they claim god is a monster because they are serving the monster, satan.
Ugh.

giphy.gif


Grace and peace to you.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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John Calvin on equal footing with God

That's exactly what calvinists do, they follow John Calvin before Jesus and love him more than they do the Lord.

We know this is true because they accept all the John Calvin has to say but they refuse to accept all that the Lord has to say so John Calvin is their idol. That's too bad for those calvinists



Nobody's lying.

When calvinists claim John Calvin's teachings are more true than the Word of God they are claiming God is a liar.



And the latter is the sense in which John Calvin's "limited atonement" is firmly couched.

Calvinists teach that Jesus only went to the Cross for a few calvinists to be saved and God decided that all others are assigned to hell because He only wanted to save a few calvinists and God wanted all others to burn in hell.

Of course you cannot acknowledge what calvinism really teaches as this would make you look very foolish




because their very nature is sinful

No, we all sinned AFTER we were born.

The calvinists and others falsely claim God made every little baby born to be a sinner.

That's because they confuse the Lord with the devil which is something those following the devil do all the time.
 

Grailhunter

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Common sense refutes Calvinism.
spaghetti monster
There once was a entity that came to earth and took over the minds of all humans and turned them into robots that were programmed to worship him and do good and evil for his entertainment.

Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage_HD(1).jpg


Who would wants to worship that god?
 
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