Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20 talks about the reign of Christ. Scripture explicitly teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 20:6 says that those who reign with Christ are "priests of God and of Christ". Scripture teaches that Christ's followers are priests right now.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Scripture teaches that all believers will have their bodies changed to be immortal while inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Matthew 25:31-46). And it teaches that all unbelievers will be destroyed when He returns which would not allow for any mortals to populate the earth at that point, as the following scriptures indicate.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Scripture also teaches that the saved and lost will be resurrected at generally the same time or hour and then judged.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Scripture teaches that all people will be judged at the same time and not that there will be multiple judgments as Premills believe.

Shortened the quote due the character limit for my post.

Why don't you mention scriptures talking about Satan being bound so that he is unable to go about as "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", deceiving the nations, etc etc?

Why don't you mention how the beast has been rising from the abyss and some saints have been beheaded for their refusal to worship him since the first century until now and so they have been reigning with Christ a thousand years every time they got beheaded?

Why do you post all the above scriptures instead of the scriptures that talk about the millennium if you want to provide support for Amilennialism?

Believing that the above scriptures you posted support Amillennialism is just another one of the logical fallacies you always boast about maintaining in your understanding of Revelation 20 - 22.

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments, such as Revelation 20.

You totally omit many scriptures while you quote only scriptures that would only prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ IF Revelation 20 and all those other New Testament scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound (in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations) did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies. It's an Amillennialist thing to do so.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you not listen? I based my doctrine on what I believe to be clear, straightforward scriptures that I then use to interpret more difficult scriptures. Why are you avoiding addressing anything I said in my original posts? For example, scripture explicitly teaches that Jesus began to reign after His resurrection. Should we not use those scriptures to help understand Revelation 20 when it talks about Jesus reigning? I believe so and that's the point of this thread.

I ask again,

Why don't you mention scriptures talking about Satan being bound so that he is unable to go about as "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", deceiving the nations, etc etc?

Why don't you mention how the beast has been rising from the abyss and some saints have been beheaded for their refusal to worship him since the first century until now and so they have been reigning with Christ a thousand years every time they got beheaded?

Why do you post all the above scriptures instead of the scriptures that talk about the millennium if you want to provide support for Amilennialism?

Believing that the above scriptures you posted support Amillennialism is just another one of the logical fallacies you always boast about, which you maintain in your understanding of Revelation 20 - 22.

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments, such as Revelation 20 - totally omitted while you quote only scriptures that would prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ IF Revelation 20 and all those other scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies.

Your OP proves nothing except that you ignore a great deal of scripture and change the meaning of a great deal of other portions of scripture in the way you interpret it - all so that you can maintain the logical fallacy that doing so supports Amillennialism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yep. As it was in Noah day, so it will be when Jesus comes.

None.

Luke 17
26 And just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the time of [the second coming of] the Son of Man: 27 the people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, [they were indifferent to God] until the day that Noah went into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

As the ungodly are perishing we are still rising to meet him in the air.

Paul puts it this way...,

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Zero population on the day we are glorified = premill is dead

Matt 13
40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend [those things by which people are led into sin], and all who practice evil [leading others into sin], 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

43 Then the righteous [those who seek the will of God] will shine forth [radiating the new life] like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears [to hear], let him hear and heed My words.

=GLORIFICATION DAY.

Amen, Jeff. Those scriptures are very clear and straightfoward and cannot possibly be reconciled with Premill. Which is why we don't see any of them even trying to do so. It can't be done. If they actually interpreted those scriptures as literally as they interpret Revelation 20 then they would be Amills like us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 with you multiple times, so why are you lying about this?

How do you think you are proving anything here as it relates to Premill? There are still things (people, kingdoms, governments) that don't yet exist that are not yet under Him and death has not yet been defeated and put under Him, but all things that ever exist will be under Him once the final enemy, death, is defeated when He returns. At that point He will deliver the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:22-28). What is your point here?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments,

LOL. Why don't you address any of the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread? It looks like you would rather talk about anything besides those. I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 many times, so you have no idea of what you're talking about. You're also not even making it clear why you are bringing up that verse. Typical unclear gibberish from you.

such as Revelation 20 - totally omitted while you quote only scriptures that would prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ if Revelation 20 and all those other scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies.

I'm talking specifically about clear, straightforward scriptures in this thread. Is there something you don't understand about that? Why are you afraid to address any of the points I made in my second post? No Premill seems to want to do that in any detail. I'm not surprised since those scriptures clearly support Amill rather than Premill.

 

[jeffweeder]

Amen, Jeff. Those scriptures are very clear and straightfoward and cannot possibly be reconciled with Premill. Which is why we don't see any of them even trying to do so. It can't be done. If they actually interpreted those scriptures as literally as they interpret Revelation 20 then they would be Amills like us.

I am amazed that they interpret in such a way that contradicts what Jesus actually taught on the end of the age.

1. Matthew 13:40
   So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
2. Matthew 13:49
   So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend [those things by which people are led into sin], and all who practice evil [leading others into sin], 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

43 Then the righteous [those who seek the will of God] will shine forth [radiating the new life] like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears [to hear], let him hear and heed My words


Pre anything will struggle to fully agree with our Lords own word here.

 

[Zao is life]

I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 with you multiple times, so why are you lying about this?

How do you think you are proving anything here as it relates to Premill?

LOL. How do you think that quoting scripture that appears to be saying one thing and would support Amil IF you do not quote other parts of scripture that shed more light on the correct interpretation, without posting those scriptures, is proving that anything you have posted supports Amil?

There are still things (people, kingdoms, governments) that don't yet exist that are not yet under Him

Right. And even people, kingdoms and governments that have a minority of people believing the gospel they have heard also all have a majority of people in their populations who remain blinded by the deceiver of the nations - such as in the USA - the most free and Christianized nation in the world - because he isn't in any way prevented from deceiving whom he can.

and death has not yet been defeated and put under Him, but all things that ever exist will be under Him once the final enemy, death, is defeated when He returns.

On what do you base your assumption that death will be defeated when He returns?

Are you saying that Paul did not know what he was talking about when he said that Christ has broken the power of death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Timothy 1:9-10)?

Has Satan been destroyed in the lake of fire because his power over death has been destroyed?

On what are you basing your assumption that death will be destroyed before the close of the literal thousand years that, as Revelation 20 tells us, will follow the return of Christ?

Your belief that your argument about the destruction of death (which has already been defeated) and the destruction of Satan (who has already been defeated) in the lake of fire - which Revelation 20 tells us will come at the close of the thousand years - is somehow "proof" of Amillennialism is yet another of your long list of logical fallacies.

Revelation 20 tells us that Satan will be totally incapacitated in terms of his deception of the nations for a thousand years before he will be released one last time, and then destroyed. It also tells us that death with be destroyed at this time.

So therefore Revelation 20 is telling you that in-between the resurrection of the dead which Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 15 and the destruction of death - which has already been defeated by Christ - a thousand years will pass.

Or are you asserting again that just because in your long list of logical fallacies and scriptures that you ignore or change the meaning of, there is not going to be a thousand years following the return of Christ, this means that death will be defeated only when Christ returns and destroyed in the lake of fire when He returns?

At that point He will deliver the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:22-28). What is your point here?

Are you saying that

(a) because Paul said Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father which is now under His authority, this means that the kingdom is not at all under the Father's authority now, and that His own throne is not excluded in what has been handed over?

(b) Jesus will not reign to the ages of the ages commencing at the time He returns because He will at that time deliver the kingdom to the Father, and then God will be all in all?

(c) That this means that no human beings will have the authority to reign with Christ under His authority and under the Father's authority after He returns and that we have no inheritance in the kingdom?

LOL. Why don't you address any of the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread?

Which of them states that no saints will be beheaded after the beast ascends from the abyss or be alive and be reigning with Christ a thousand years after they had been beheaded; and which of them states that Satan will be prevented from deceiving the nations for a thousand years?

Which of them does not prove that your belief that they prove Amillennialism is based on logical fallacies?

I have addressed them all by pointing out that they all prove that your belief in Amil is based on logical fallacies - because they all prove that what has been placed in Christ's hands does not mean that He has returned yet - and what will prove that He has returned is that Satan will be completely incapacitated in terms of being able to deceive the nations,

and certain saints will be reigning for a thousand years with Christ but under His authority - in the very kingdom which Christ has begun to reign over to the ages of the ages and has delivered to God the Father so that God has become all in all.

It looks like you would rather talk about anything besides scriptures that disprove Amil - such as the way you conveniently left out Hebrews 2:8 and any other scripture which disproves Amil, from your OP.

I'm talking specifically about clear, straightforward scriptures in this thread.

Even while you conveniently exclude clear, straightforward scriptures that prove your assertions are false (for example Hebrews 2:8 which clearly and straight-forwardly tells us that in this present time we do not yet see all things having been placed under Christ's feet, though they have already been placed under His feet) - which is what Amils always do in their desperation to prove their logical fallacies.

Is there something you don't understand about that?

There's something you don't understand about that, I think. Nor do you understand that just because you omit any scripture that sheds more light on the scriptures you quote and disprove Amil, does not mean that I have to do the same.

Why are you afraid to address any of the points I made in my second post?

Done. You can't see it because you wanted me to address them by failing to address other scriptures that pertain to them that you deliberately omitted.

Your arguments are so full of holes it's bizarre how you cannot see it. Besides being circular.