Iran vs Israel | Gog and Magog War?

[TribulationSigns]

With Israel and Iran in a slugfest today, it’s interesting that no premillennialist here has raised a thread about it. I also noticed on YouTube that, with Iran on the losing side, the premillennialists are waiting for Russia to get involved before they start making videos about the possible "alternative view" of Gog and Magog. I found this quite amusing. They got the Gog and Magog interpretation all wrong! This has nothing to do with modern nations of Israel, Russia, Iran, Turkey, and of course, to some Preterists and Amillennialists, first-century Jerusalem.

 

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With Israel and Iran in a slugfest today, it’s interesting that no premillennialist here has raised a thread about it. I also noticed on YouTube that, with Iran on the losing side, the premillennialists are waiting for Russia to get involved before they start making videos about the possible "alternative view" of Gog and Magog. I found this quite amusing. They got the Gog and Magog interpretation all wrong! This has nothing to do with modern nations of Israel, Russia, Iran, Turkey, and of course, to some Preterists and Amillennialists, first-century Jerusalem.

Personally I'm not expecting the Gog/Magog ground invasion to come right now.

I'm thinking that Iran is going to not be able to withstand Israel, and will initiate a proxy war with all the terrorist surrounding Israel. Israel will defeat them, and annex their lands, as described in Obadiah. With Iran subdued, and their terrorist neighbors gone, it will seem like Peace and Safety.

After that, I'm thinking that the ground invasion comes, as God drags Iran, and those with them, with a hook to the mountains of Israel to be destroyed.

There has been a longstanding discussion over whether Magog is Russia, Turkey, or another region.

I could have started a thread, but why? So everyone can bicker about it? We'll see soon enough I think.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Personally I'm not expecting the Gog/Magog ground invasion to come right now.

I'm thinking that Iran is going to not be able to withstand Israel, and will initiate a proxy war with all the terrorist surrounding Israel. Israel will defeat them, and annex their lands, as described in Obadiah. With Iran subdued, and their terrorist neighbors gone, it will seem like Peace and Safety.

After that, I'm thinking that the ground invasion comes, as God drags Iran, and those with them, with a hook to the mountains of Israel to be destroyed.

There has been a longstanding discussion over whether Magog is Russia, Turkey, or another region.

I could have started a thread, but why? So everyone can bicker about it? We'll see soon enough I think.

Much love!

Oh, so we're still waiting for tanks to roll into Tel Aviv plus millions of drones and missiles at Israel, because Ezekiel 38 and 39 must mean a literal invasion of modern-day Israel? Really? That’s the prophecy you're clinging to? It's almost like we’re ignoring the fact that God speaks in spiritual language throughout Scripture.

Hint: When God gives a vision, it’s NOT always CNN Breaking News material. Maybe—just maybe—He’s talking about a spiritual war, not a military one. Get it?? But hey, keep watching the Jerusalem Post like it’s the 67th book of the Bible, right after the book of Revelation, if you desire.

Much Wisdom in Christ.

 

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Not surprised.

You still are looking at wrong players thinking there will be physical invasion upon nation Israel. This is NOT what God prophesied about at all.

Much Wisdom in Christ.

No, this has been clearly prophesied. Yes, there will be a ground invasion, which God will destroy.

Certainly you are familiar with this prophecy?

Ezekiel 38:1-10 KJV
1) And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2) Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5) Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6) Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7) Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8) After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9) Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10) Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

The war involving Gog and Magog happens after the second coming, and after the thousand years and that army surrounds Jerusalem and is burned by a fire that comes from God in heaven.

None of those events have happened yet and cannot happen since the second coming hasn't happened.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, this has been clearly prophesied. Yes, there will be a ground invasion, which God will destroy.

No, not according to carnal mind. You need WISDOM of Christ to discern what He talked about . You may read Ezekiel 38:1-10 below...

Certainly you are familiar with this prophecy?

Ezekiel 38:1-10 KJV
1) And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2) Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5) Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6) Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7) Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8) After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9) Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10) Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

But the real question is, do you really understand this? Have you studied what they wear? What is the mountains of Israel in thte New Testament? God is not talking about war in the Middle East with these nations coming down on Isarel again. YOu are looking at the wrong place and lack spiritual understanding, which is why you really need is....

Much love!

Much WISDOM!

 

[TribulationSigns]

The war involving Gog and Magog happens after the second coming

Nope. The final spiritual battle of Gog and Magog will come upon New Testament congregaiton of Israel, all over the world, as a judgment upon His unfaithful congregaiton RIGHT BEFORE the Second Coming.

and after the thousand years

The thousand years were already here... since the Cross. There will be no future 1,000 years of physical kingdom in the Middle East as you think!

and that army surrounds Jerusalem

What Jersualem is this on this side of the Cross? A physical city in the Middle East, or symbolically the Church with spiritual Jews (Christians) fighting spiritual Gentiles (heathen and false prophets and christs). Humm?

and is burned by a fire that comes from God in heaven.

What fire is it? And upon whom, exactly? Russian soldiers and their tanks? Or the Professed Christians and their false doctrines? Think carefully.

None of those events have happened yet

Well, it is happening now. If you have spiritual discernment.

and cannot happen since the second coming hasn't happened.

It does, and it means the seventh trumpet (last trump) and Christ's coming are very near.

 

[ewq1938]

It does, and it means the seventh trumpet (last trump) and Christ's coming are very near.

Which of course is very similar to another false doctrine that believes a coming of Christ is also very near, Pretrib. Both doctrines are wrong. We are not near the second coming because the trib has to happen first.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Which of course is very similar to another false doctrine that believes a coming of Christ is also very near, Pretrib. Both doctrines are wrong. We are not near the second coming because the trib has to happen first.

My doctrine is similar to the Pre-tribulation? LOL!!!

You have no clues with what I believe the Scripture talked about.

 

[ewq1938]

My doctrine is similar to the Pre-tribulation? LOL!!!

Yes, very similar.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, very similar.

No not at all! You do not even know my Ezekiel 38-39 doctrine yet. Tell me what you think my position on Gog and Magog is? Look up history here.

 

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YOu are looking at the wrong place and lack spiritual understanding,

Rather, I am reading the Bible and believing what I'm reading.

It sound's like you've found some way to understand the writtings but not according to the meanings of the words, and you are going to have a really tough time convincing me to do the same.

I believe God intends communication with us, I'm certain He communicates with me.

So instead of trying to tele-diagnose my problems ( you actually know nothing about me), return to the Scriptures, and believe the things you read.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Rather, I am reading the Bible and believing what I'm reading.

Just like the Scribes and Pharisees—oh yes, the experts of their time—they read the Scriptures and thought they knew better than Christ Himself. When Jesus spoke about the temple being destroyed, they assumed He meant the literal building. Of course, because deep spiritual truth must always mean bricks and stone, right? Well, guess what, their spiritual radar was completely offline.

Likewise, we both read about Gog and Magog. One claims he gets it, on the surface, of course, thinking he talked about literal nations with their weapons against Israel in the Middle East. The other suggests there's a deeper meaning, and suddenly, it's a theological standoff.


So yes, by all means, let’s return to the Scriptures... but maybe this time, bring the wisdom of Christ with you. Selah :).

It sound's like you've found some way to understand the writtings but not according to the meanings of the words

I did not find it. God show me, when you compare Scripture with Scripture. Selah!

, and you are going to have a really tough time convincing me to do the same.

Oh, absolutely—not my job to open anyone’s eyes. That’s the Lord’s department. I’ll just step aside while you keep refreshing the Jerusalem Post, waiting for prophecy to break like it’s the evening news. I'm sure the Pharisees would’ve had alerts set too—“Breaking: Messiah spotted, still not meeting our expectations.”

I believe God intends communication with us, I'm certain He communicates with me.

Ah yes, and let’s not forget the millions of other Christians who are absolutely certain there’s a big, literal war brewing in the Middle East to fulfill Ezekiel 38 and 39. Because obviously, they’ve got it all figured out—except for one tiny problem: wrong Israel, wrong temple, wrong people. Other than that? Spot on.

So instead of trying to tele-diagnose my problems ( you actually know nothing about me), return to the Scriptures, and believe the things you read.

You’re right—I don’t have a backstage pass to your inner life. But when someone says, “just believe what you read,” I have to ask: believe what, exactly? The words? The context? The deeper meaning? Because even the Pharisees read the Scriptures—and we both know how that turned out. :)

Much love!

Much Wisdom!

 

[marks]

The thousand years were already here... since the Cross. There will be no future 1,000 years of physical kingdom in the Middle East as you think!

the 1000 years comes after the reign of the beast.

Revelation 20:1-10 KJV
1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

At the end of the day, you cannot just make up whatever you want and call it "spiritual". Either God said it or He didn't. And above we read what God spoke through His prophet, and it will happen, you can count on it.

Much love!

 

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Just like the Scribes and Pharisees—oh yes, the experts of their time—they read the Scriptures and thought they knew better than Christ Himself.

I suggest you rethink what was happening with the Scribes and Pharisees. There was a moral component to their disbelief. They did not want to believe. They wanted Him to be false.

If you think you "know" this about me, well, there's something else you need to rethink.

Before just tossing out these unfounded comments, well, again that word . . . rethink.

Much love!

 

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You’re right—I don’t have a backstage pass to your inner life. But when someone says, “just believe what you read,” I have to ask: believe what, exactly? The words? The context? The deeper meaning?

No, you don't know me, but you presume that you do, and that will not serve you well.

Yes, the words. The context. The message. The harmony with the rest. Yes, that's right. Go with the words, and what they mean, and what the sentences say, and the paragraphs, and so on.

Here's the thing. It often seems to be the case that someone will reach some conclusion about a passage, and they feel certain that's what it means. Then they find another passage that would seem to conflict with their conclusions on the first passage, so they say, "This one is meant to be understood spiritually." Not that there are actual martyrs of an actual beast ruling on actual thrones for an actual 1,000 years, it all must mean something else, and what could that be? OH! I know! It must mean . . ." and here comes the "spiritual meaning". But no valid reason to not accept the words of God as He gave them. We don't have the right to change His Word into something we think makes more sense than the words He spoke.

It's a way to negate the meaning of a difficult passage when that person won't return to the beginning and find out where they went wrong.

So I suggest to you that you submit yourself to God by submitting yourself to His Word, and that you learn it until you have understandings that are from the words of God, and that harmonize with each other, and that don't negate the actual words He spoke.

You compare me to the Pharisees fully unjustly, and you should know that. The fact that you either don't know or don't care tells me a lot about you. But more importantly you need to know about you, and whether this is spiritual fruit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What fire is it? And upon whom, exactly? Russian soldiers and their tanks? Or the Professed Christians and their false doctrines? Think carefully.

Have you carefully considered that the fire from heaven will be destroying the militarized Islamic nations? It's like God knew! He's clearing the way for the beast.

Do you believe there will be a 7 year period at the end of the age in which God judges the world? Do you believe there will be 2 prophets testifying for half of this time, before they are killed by the beast?

I'm just curious.

Much love!

 

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John 2:18-22 KJV
18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

This is the Biblical authority that Jesus spoke enigmatically, using metaphor. We are told this, so we can know this.

Many people have adopted the practice of declaring Scripture to be metaphor, or symbol, or allegory, when the Bible does not do so. And that's on them. I believe what the Bible says.

If it says the temple will be destroyed, it will be destroyed. And it was. And that was the literal temple.
When Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up, that was His body, and we know this, because God said it.

Galatians 4:22-26 KJV
22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Again, we are told this is allegory, and we are told what the allegory means, and for these we have Biblical authority.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Where it the Scripture to tell us this is allegory? Metaphor? Symbol? And what that allegory means? It's not there.

So those who claim this does not mean just what it says, that there will be martyrs who will live and reign with Jesus for 1,000 years, following the reign of the beast, they do so of themselves, and their own opinions, but completely lacking in Scriptural authority.

And so I counsel that we believe what we read. Prayerfully, carefully, no rush, just to receive whatever gift God gives you today through your devotion to Him and His Word.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

the 1000 years comes after the reign of the beast.

Revelation 20:1-10 KJV
1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

At the end of the day, you cannot just make up whatever you want and call it "spiritual". Either God said it or He didn't. And above we read what God spoke through His prophet, and it will happen, you can count on it.

Much love!

Nope.

A Spiritual Understanding of Revelation 20


It’s important to read Revelation 20 in full context, without assuming things that the text does not say. Many mistakenly believe the thousand years occur after the reign of the Beast, but that’s NOT what the chapter teaches when understood spiritually.


Verses 1–3:
These verses describe Christ—identified with Michael in Scripture—defeating Satan at the Cross. At that moment, Satan is “bound” in the bottomless pit. He cannot be hold with a literal chain, key, or prison, but a spiritual reality: Satan’s power to deceive the nations is restrained or taken away. Why? So that the Gospel can go out to the world during the symbolic "thousand years"—a period representing the fullness of time during which Christ is building His Church through the faithful witness of His people (the "Two Witnesses"). Once the full number of the elect is brought in, Satan will be released for a short time. Selah!


Verses 4–6:

This section describes the Millennial Kingdom—not an earthly kingdom of political rule, but Christ reigning spiritually through His Church. Believers share in this reign as they proclaim the Gospel, even amid persecution. This is the "first resurrection"—being born again, raised from spiritual death into life. When these believers die physically, they immediately live and continue to reign with Christ in heaven. In contrast, “the rest of the dead”—those who are not born again—remain spiritually dead and await final judgment at the last day. Selah!


Verses 7–9:

After the Church age is complete and the Gospel has reached its intended harvest, Satan is released for a "short season." This leads to a final global deception symbolized by Gog and Magog—representing a worldwide rebellion of false prophets, false Christs, and apostate churches. They gather against the true Church, now weakened by spiritual war waged by them. The "fire from heaven" symbolizes God's judgment on THIS rebellion—not literal flames, but divine wrath poured out in spiritual judgment. This judgment comes before the Second Coming, marking the fall of Babylon the Great, the unfaithful Church. Selah!


Verse 10:

Here we see the final judgment of Satan. The spirit of deception—the spirit of Satan—is cast into the lake of fire. This is the same destiny already prepared for the beast and false prophet, who represent unsaved humanity: both the secular world including secular religion (the beast) and false Christianity (the false prophet). These aren't just symbols, but people—those who followed Satan’s lies. At the end, both the deceiver (Satan) and the deceived (the unsaved and the apostates) are cast into eternal judgment. The lake of fire is the final, irreversible separation from God. Selah!

 

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It’s important to read Revelation 20 in full context, without assuming things that the text does not say. Many mistakenly believe the thousand years occur after the reign of the Beast, but that’s NOT what the chapter teaches when understood spiritually.

Call it what you want, "spiritual understanding", whatever, but the Bible in fact specifically teaches the 1000 years reign following the reign of the beast.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is no ambiguity to this passage. It's a narrative prophecy, in the same way as,

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Do you believe Jesus will return this earth in the exact manner as described above? Do you spiritualize this passage?

Much love!