Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

[Bruce-Leiter]

ouch that is not his fault . If a man cometh to spread the truth amongst people
but said people reject or fall , it is not the fault of the man who warned and reminded
its the fault and the very fault lies upon those who rejected . keep that in mind .
and let none of us ever heed another word of this seeker friendly lets change the way we evanglize camp .
Cause that way DONT WORK . just speak the truth , if it offends it offends and unto those who recieve it amen .
You aint , I aint , GOD . we cannot give the increase but by grace we can and should and must speak the truth .

You're right, amigo. I've found during my 82 years on the earth that people respond well when I make it clear that it's what I believe without expecting them to believe it, if they don't want to. That approach respects them as a fellow creation of God. I've also found that post-modern people respond best to our stories about our experiences with God and what he has done in our lives.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Furthermore, to answer your question at the beginning of the thread, in the Bible, the word "spiritual" means to be led and filled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

I see lots of Christian folks that have grown up in a church. Some of them are having a transformative experience.
But lots are just going through the motions. A key indicator for me is when they are asked what they believe.
If they answer that their church believes such and so, I know it is probably not a personal belief.
In fact, they may be opposed to people having personal beliefs. Rather, the church makes these decisions for them.

What happens (IMHO) is that these folks place the church between themselves and God.
They trust the church to take responsibility for their spiritual well-being. Their part is to be a faithful attender.
Show up once every week or two (give or take a month) to polish the pew with their back side.

--- PARODY ---

Scene at the Pearly Gates

St. Peter: Welcome to the Pearly Gates
New Arrival: Wow, pretty amazing.
St. Peter: Are you a Christian?
New Arrival: Of course.
St. Peter: Baptized?
New Arrival: Yes.
St. Peter: Confirmed?
New Arrival: Yes.
St. Peter: Faithful attender?
New Arrival: Pretty much.
St. Peter: What's your position on the Atonement?
New Arrival: Check our church website.
St. Peter: Don't you have your own beliefs?
New Arrival: No, our church is against that.
St. Peter: So, you don't have personal beliefs?
New Arrival: Heavens no.
St. Peter: Why should I let you into heaven?
New Arrival: I told you that I am a Christian.
St. Peter: Everything else you said tells me otherwise.
New Arrival: Maybe you could call the Priest?

[

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

--- PARODY ---

Scene at the Pearly Gates

St. Peter: Welcome to the Pearly Gates
New Arrival: Wow, pretty amazing.
St. Peter: Are you a Christian?
New Arrival: Of course.
St. Peter: Baptized?
New Arrival: Yes.
St. Peter: Confirmed?
New Arrival: Yes.
St. Peter: Faithful attender?
New Arrival: Pretty much.
St. Peter: What's your position on the Atonement?
New Arrival: Check our church website.
St. Peter: Don't you have your own beliefs?
New Arrival: No, our church is against that.
St. Peter: So, you don't have personal beliefs?
New Arrival: Heavens no.
St. Peter: Why should I let you into heaven?
New Arrival: I told you that I am a Christian.
St. Peter: Everything else you said tells me otherwise.
New Arrival: Maybe you could call the Priest?

[

So true! Yeah, I followed the 12-year-old herd into confirmation, immersion, and church membership in a church that didn't really preach the Good News based on the Bible. But, at the age of 16, God led me through an intellectual process based on the Bible to convince me that Jesus' resurrection was a historical event. Then, the 3-in-1 God became real to me, and he gets more real every day 66 years later.

 

[St. SteVen]

Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey.

[

 

[David in NJ]

Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

Correct in this aspect = the Gospel has gone out to all the men/women are either pressing into it for Truth or they are promoting the Gospel with their own agenda attached(even when they think it is God's agenda).

Example: the RCC to which i was raised in since birth
It served it's purpose by introducing the Gospel to me but it lacks Truth as it combine idolatry to the Finished Work of God/CHRIST.

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

It leaves us in the SAME place that CHRIST left the Apostles

i will let you ponder this before i say anymore so that you can SEE thru the Eyes of the Holy Spirit

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

Correct in this aspect = the Gospel has gone out to all the men/women are either pressing into it for Truth or they are promoting the Gospel with their own agenda attached(even when they think it is God's agenda).

Example: the RCC to which i was raised in since birth
It served it's purpose by introducing the Gospel to me but it lacks Truth as it combine idolatry to the Finished Work of God/CHRIST.

Catholics leave the RCC to join a Protestant church and
Protestants leave to join the Catholic Church.
Both claim they did it to find the truth.

How (and Why) Do Protestants Convert to Catholicism? - Christianity FAQ

Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy are the three historical branches of the Christian faith. Sometimes people in one of those traditions change their allegiance to a different one. The

christianityfaq.com

St. SteVen said:
It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

It leaves us in the SAME place that CHRIST left the Apostles

How so?
Are you saying there has always been tribal infighting (sects) rather than unity in the Body of Christ?

i will let you ponder this before i say anymore so that you can SEE thru the Eyes of the Holy Spirit

Pfft.
Get over yourself.

[

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey.

[

I'm always concerned with bridging the battle lines with loving, biblical truth to benefit readers and listeners. They don't have to be battle lines if we respect one another. My religious upbringing came from a Christian mother, a pragmatic unbelieving father, Methodist, liberal/neoorthodox, Baptist, and cultish influences until I decided to accept the Reformed approach to Scripture as the most biblically consistent belief system based on biblical principles, not on human thinking imposed on the Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

St. SteVen said:
Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

Catholics leave the RCC to join a Protestant church and
Protestants leave to join the Catholic Church.
Both claim they did it to find the truth.

How (and Why) Do Protestants Convert to Catholicism? - Christianity FAQ

Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy are the three historical branches of the Christian faith. Sometimes people in one of those traditions change their allegiance to a different one. The

christianityfaq.com

St. SteVen said:
It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

How so?
Are you saying there has always been tribal infighting (sects) rather than unity in the Body of Christ?


Pfft.
Get over yourself.

[

Pfft.
Get over yourself.

Christ is over myself and this is eveident by pointing you to Christ, His words and the Holy Spirit

This response of yours is the EXACT problem that you are trying to diagnose from religion.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

 

[amigo de christo]

Seems that biblical understanding
has more to do with religious upbringing and
environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey.

[

for many what you first wrote is very true . seems their biblical understanding
do come from such a thing . WANNA HEAR SOMETHING VERY SCARY . YOu one of them .
Folks just wont leave the always changing to the ways of the world church they so love to sit in .
MANY learned their doctrine THROUGH THE RCC or etc .
BELIEVING their men . WHEN In truth it WAS They who changed the truth into a lie
it was they who always pandered to the changing views of society
IN ORDER TO GAIN numbers , to have the worship of men and to be CALLED MOST HOLY FATHER
and have rings kissed and have the priase of men .
ANd say things like TOUCH NOT GODS ANNOINTED anytime someone tries to correct them .
THE RCC and most all of the prostestant realm IS IN DIRE DEADLY TROUBLE .
SO , heres a clue , BIBLE TIME folks . GET IN IT FOR YOURSELF .

 

[amigo de christo]

Correct in this aspect = the Gospel has gone out to all the men/women are either pressing into it for Truth or they are promoting the Gospel with their own agenda attached(even when they think it is God's agenda).

Example: the RCC to which i was raised in since birth
It served it's purpose by introducing the Gospel to me but it lacks Truth as it combine idolatry to the Finished Work of God/CHRIST.


It leaves us in the SAME place that CHRIST left the Apostles

i will let you ponder this before i say anymore so that you can SEE thru the Eyes of the Holy Spirit

I would challenge you to think some more on this one my friend .
WHO was it who really opened your EYES to the True gospel .
DO we really think a works plus and never truly knowing whether one will end up in what is called
perdition for a time , cause i guess THE FINSHED WORKS OF JESUS were not enough
AN ACTUAL GOSPEL AT ALL . I got real bad news . THE ONE TRUE GOSPEL
aint really getting preached by such a place . NOR is it in many other places .
It always cometh with THUS doeth this , thus beleiveth as my pastor sayeth and addeth and even what he omits .
PAUL i KNOW preached the gospel . JESUS i know preached the gospel
and the apostels i know preached the gospel
BUT WHO ARE THESE who add and omit . NOT looking good.
Ya cant add too or take from THE GOSPEL . and if one trust not in CHRIST for their salvation
but rather relies on men who add stuff , I GOT REAL bad news . THEY NEVER DID TRUST the GOSPEL
THEY never DID TRUST IN JESUS at all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Trench on sister . unload the lovely gems

 

[St. SteVen]

This response of yours is the EXACT problem that you are trying to diagnose from religion.

You would get a lot farther with me by accepting me where I am than by prejudging me.
Who are you to school me?

[

 

[amigo de christo]

You would get a lot farther with me by accepting me where I am than by prejudging me.
Who are you to school me?

[

for real..................
come now steven false hoods gotta be exposed . its not sin to warn .

 

[David in NJ]

You would get a lot farther with me by accepting me where I am than by prejudging me.
Who are you to school me?

[

There it is again = "pre-judging me"

this is my 3rd post

1st post was responding to your OP = no judging on or towards you

2nd post was responding to YOUR judging me

3rd post is in response to YOUR judging me

I would challenge you to think some more on this one my friend .
WHO was it who really opened your EYES to the True gospel .
DO we really think a works plus and never truly knowing whether one will end up in what is called
perdition for a time , cause i guess THE FINSHED WORKS OF JESUS were not enough
AN ACTUAL GOSPEL AT ALL . I got real bad news . THE ONE TRUE GOSPEL
aint really getting preached by such a place . NOR is it in many other places .
It always cometh with THUS doeth this , thus beleiveth as my pastor sayeth and addeth and even what he omits .
PAUL i KNOW preached the gospel . JESUS i know preached the gospel
and the apostels i know preached the gospel
BUT WHO ARE THESE who add and omit . NOT looking good.
Ya cant add too or take from THE GOSPEL . and if one trust not in CHRIST for their salvation
but rather relies on men who add stuff , I GOT REAL bad news . THEY NEVER DID TRUST the GOSPEL
THEY never DID TRUST IN JESUS at all .

There is a BIG difference between being introduced to the Gospel, which is: God in the flesh thru His SON - dying on the Cross and 3rd Day Resurrecting, from BELIEVING the Gospel.

We can only believe the Gospel as God Opens our hearts and spirit that we may Believe.
As it is written: "Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

kapish

 

[Marvelloustime]

for real..................
come now steven false hoods gotta be exposed . its not sin to warn .

@amigo de christo

 

[St. SteVen]

We can only believe the Gospel as God Opens our hearts and spirit that we may Believe.
As it is written: "Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Of His own will....
Not our own will.

[

 

[Brakelite]

Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.

I beg to suggest that this perhaps may be true for some, but not all. I have changed my denomination twice through learning more of scripture. Those changes were as a direct result of scripture study, rejecting former teaching and accepted understanding, and moving on.

 

[St. SteVen]

I beg to suggest that this perhaps may be true for some, but not all. I have changed my denomination twice through learning more of scripture. Those changes were as a direct result of scripture study, rejecting former teaching and accepted understanding, and moving on.

I agree.
I would agree that a spiritual journey contributes as much, if not MORE than our upbringing.
But it seems to me that most cling to their upbringing and can't move on from there.

[

 

[David in NJ]

I beg to suggest that this perhaps may be true for some, but not all. I have changed my denomination twice through learning more of scripture. Those changes were as a direct result of scripture study, rejecting former teaching and accepted understanding, and moving on.

Now allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to a 3rd and continue on the path of Truth by believing every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God and rejecting former teaching and accepted understanding within SDA/Ellen White.

Anyone who claims that "sunday worshippers" are of the devil, are themselves deceived by the devil.

#1 - The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles never reiterated saturday except as it pertains to Christ being the REST of God

#2 - The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles never condemned anyone for worshipping on "any other day of the week"

#3 - The HOLY SPIRIT says that we should get together even the more so as we see the Day (of Christ) approaching = thus ruling out any specific day of the week as more important.