The Crippling Effects of Christian Dogma - Mindless Parroting of Apologetics

[St. SteVen]

Follow-up to previous topics:

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Does questioning Christianity lead to Atheism? (depends)

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

Jesus is the answer. - But what's the question?

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

Inerancy - Define, or dismiss?

DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum - Agree, or disagree? - LOL

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there

Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

Any questions? - LOL

But seriously, I see this problem all too frequently on the forum. Parroting mindless dogma.
And claiming it was what God says, when the poster knows full well that it is a matter of their OWN personal opinion. (sigh)

What is the cure to this crippling malady? Do we need to pray for spiritual healing for our comrades?
When will they wake up and realize we are ONE body under the headship of Christ?


/ cc: @Chadrho @Lambano @quietthinker @RedFan @O'Darby @Hillsage @Adrift @Brakelite @BarneyFife

 

[Randy Kluth]

Follow-up to previous topics:

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Does questioning Christianity lead to Atheism? (depends)

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

Jesus is the answer. - But what's the question?

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

Inerancy - Define, or dismiss?

DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum - Agree, or disagree? - LOL

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there

Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

Any questions? - LOL

But seriously, I see this problem all too frequently on the forum. Parroting mindless dogma.
And claiming it was what God says, when the poster knows full well that it is a matter of their OWN personal opinion. (sigh)

What is the cure to this crippling malady? Do we need to pray for spiritual healing for our comrades?
When will they wake up and realize we are ONE body under the headship of Christ?


/ cc: @Chadrho @Lambano @quietthinker @RedFan @O'Darby @Hillsage @Adrift @Brakelite @BarneyFife

Sadly, there is no cure for a good portion of this. Speak the truth, just like casting seed--you don't know what will do well--this seed or that seed. You can say you did your part and saved some from their ignorance or blindness.

 

[Nancy]

Follow-up to previous topics:

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Does questioning Christianity lead to Atheism? (depends)

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

Jesus is the answer. - But what's the question?

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

Inerancy - Define, or dismiss?

DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum - Agree, or disagree? - LOL

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there

Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

Any questions? - LOL

But seriously, I see this problem all too frequently on the forum. Parroting mindless dogma.
And claiming it was what God says, when the poster knows full well that it is a matter of their OWN personal opinion. (sigh)

What is the cure to this crippling malady? Do we need to pray for spiritual healing for our comrades?
When will they wake up and realize we are ONE body under the headship of Christ?


/ cc: @Chadrho @Lambano @quietthinker @RedFan @O'Darby @Hillsage @Adrift @Brakelite @BarneyFife

I think it will never happen brother. The "church" as a whole does NOT practice AGAPE love to one another, we have ton of modern day Pharisees who will never listen, or dig deeply, or study to show themselves approved...IF it does not concern themselves.


I've been 4 times in the last couple months visited one church, 3 times another and will be visiting for the first time, a small church near me on Sunday and the only reason for that is that they offer a lot of outreach opportunities, and that is what is really needed. It would be so nice to one day find a church that is off the milk once and for all and serve the meat of the word...hard pressed to find anything like that now a days.

 

[Adrift]

That's been my issue with churches lately. They never seem to advance out of biblical kindergarden. Apparently, the church-going masses don't mind. Every time I try a new church, the preacher's talk as though we all just found out about Jesus. My perceptions may be symptomatic of my sinful charactor. I just don't know.

 

[Nancy]

That's been my issue with churches lately. They never seem to advance out of biblical kindergarden. Apparently, the church-going masses don't mind. Every time I try a new church, the preacher's talk as though we all just found out about Jesus. My perceptions may be symptomatic of my sinful charactor. I just don't know.

Hello Adrift,
No, it is not a symptom of your "sinful" character. My guess is that you have a new nature and may fall or stumble at times but then:

Proverbs 24:16
"16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Most churches I have attended never taught the "whole" council of God and continue with the milk and yes, like you say "like we are just finding out about Jesus" We were to move on from disciples to "GO"...

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Matt. 28:19

I see the stick building churches as weak and ineffective. Barring a small handful of truly God seeking and Jesus following Christians, so many are just pew warmers as far as I can tell, try to get into a good deep conversation about The Lord...you won't get many takers as the majority (IMHO) do not study their bibles, and a surface reading is not studying. This is hard for me as I've never had good study habits but continue to search, seek for that pearl of great value every day, all day amen!

Blessings and welcome here BTW

 

[GISMYS_7]

Truth is truth seek truth and live in the light!!!

 

[amadeus]

Follow-up to previous topics:

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Does questioning Christianity lead to Atheism? (depends)

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

Jesus is the answer. - But what's the question?

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

Inerancy - Define, or dismiss?

DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum - Agree, or disagree? - LOL

The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there

Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

Any questions? - LOL

But seriously, I see this problem all too frequently on the forum. Parroting mindless dogma.
And claiming it was what God says, when the poster knows full well that it is a matter of their OWN personal opinion. (sigh)

What is the cure to this crippling malady? Do we need to pray for spiritual healing for our comrades?
When will they wake up and realize we are ONE body under the headship of Christ?

Is all of this, these questions that is, why a gift of tongues unknown to men is sometimes given to communicate with God? Otherwise, we would not and/or could not even know what to say or what to ask when desiring to talk with Him...

 

[MatthewG]

That's been my issue with churches lately. They never seem to advance out of biblical kindergarden. Apparently, the church-going masses don't mind. Every time I try a new church, the preacher's talk as though we all just found out about Jesus. My perceptions may be symptomatic of my sinful charactor. I just don't know.

Don’t feel to bad about that. I am hyper critical when it comes judging a “church.”

 

[St. SteVen]

... It would be so nice to one day find a church that is off the milk once and for all and serve the meat of the word...hard pressed to find anything like that now a days.

That's a great point.
Mature Christians are dying on the vine while they wet-nurse the newbies.
I believe in discipleship, but mature Christians are leaving the church.

Glad to hear about your search for ministry opportunities. You have my blessing, sister.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

That's been my issue with churches lately. They never seem to advance out of biblical kindergarden. Apparently, the church-going masses don't mind. Every time I try a new church, the preacher's talk as though we all just found out about Jesus. My perceptions may be symptomatic of my sinful charactor. I just don't know.

You are not alone. This is a problem of epidemic proportions.
I like your use of the word "kindergarten". I almost used that in my last post.
Mature Christians need to be challenged and offered deeper walk ministry.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Is all of this, these questions that is, why a gift of tongues unknown to men is sometimes given to communicate with God? Otherwise, we would not and/or could not even know what to say or what to ask when desiring to talk with Him...

Yes.
Let the Spirit intercede for us.

Romans 8:26-27 NRSVue
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness,
for we do not know how to pray as we ought,
but that very Spirit intercedes[a] with groanings too deep for words.
27 And God,[b] who searches hearts, knows what is the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit[c] intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

I'm in favor of discipleship.
But the programming (deprogramming?) the church does is disturbing to me.
Like the book titled: Know What You Believe
Say what? - LOL

I can imagine the epiphany of the author.
"Christians today don't even know what they believe. I should write a book."

We certainly need to have a transformed mind, but should this be an act of re-education?

And frankly, the apologetics that are taught are a house of cards.
Most of the "proof-texts" don't prove the claims being made.
What does that tell you?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Yup.
Another pet peeve of mine.
Forum posters that play "the God card" in the hopes of ending the discussion.

"Who should I believe, you or God?"

Well, since what you provided was only ONE interpretation of the scripture in question...
it's not God, it's YOUR opinion.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Does questioning Christianity lead to Atheism? (depends)

What were we taught?
- Believers = saved
- Unbelievers = lost

Better not question ANYTHING, or you are toast!
Seriously?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

Forum members have really struggled with this one.
Elevating the book ABOVE the author.

Plain and simple to understand.
Salvation is in a relationship with the author, not in your grasp of the book. (or lack thereof)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus is the answer. - But what's the question?

It needed to be asked. What can I say?

- Is Jesus a complete answer?
- Or does this leave us with MORE questions?

Are the answers more important than the questions?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

Source:
- God

Resources:
- The Bible
- Commentaries
- Preachers/teachers
- Other believers
- Unbelievers (listen)

Other resource ideas?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Inerancy - Define, or dismiss?

A doctrine that reveals a complete misunderstanding about where the Bible came from.
Much education needed. This resource was very helpful to me. From the Berean Patriot.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

https://www.bereanpatriot.com/majority-text-vs-critical-text-vs-textus-receptus-textual-criticism-101/#Corruption-of-the-Alexandrian-text-type

/

 

[O'Darby]

It's not clear to me what this thread is about. Origen, who lived 200 years after Jesus, made the point that there is a Christianity "of faith" that is sufficient for many. What he called the Christianity of faith was what I might call literalist or bumper-sticker Christianity. These folks accept the Christian message at face value. It's all literally true, is as much as God wants us to know, and that's all there is to it. Such folks may, of course, be wonderfully faithful Christians.

Origen distinguished the Christianity "of wisdom." Many believers see the unanswered mysteries that the Christianity of faith carefully avoids. They see the lack of logic and the many incongruities in the Christianity of faith. They try to go deeper. Origen recognized that this is what virtually all of the "heretical" movements tried to do, which is why they were extremely popular and a genuine threat to the "orthodox" Christianity of faith. He thus tried to articulate a Christianity of wisdom that would be an alternative to the supposed "heresies."

The situation is no different today, never has been different and never will be different. Those are the two fundamental segments of Christianity: the simplistic Christianity of faith and the less-simplistic Christianity of wisdom. Both see themselves as superior. The Christians of faith see the wisdom approach as threatening and irreligious, as questioning and even doubting God. The Christians of wisdom see the faith approach as simple-minded and perhaps silly. It's very difficult for the two segments to engage in meaningful dialogue.

 

[St. SteVen]

It's not clear to me what this thread is about.

Surprisingly (or not), you nailed it. What you wrote is what this thread is about.
But you raise a VERY interesting comparison.
1) The Christianity "of faith"
2) The Christianity "of wisdom"

Here's a question to discuss.
Are we saved by faith, or saved by wisdom?

/