WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[mailmandan]

I tend to agree that the physical birth makes the most sense.
In verse John 3:6 Jesus says. What is born of flesh is flesh. What is born of spirit is spirit.
This would seem to point to natural birth and the fact that we must be born 2X.

I don't know how being baptized makes us be born AGAIN....2X. Jesus said AGAIN.

Do you give any importance to the fact that soon after this Jesus was baptizing persons in

John 3:22
22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing.

How could Jesus be talking about physical birth and water baptism at the same time in John 3:5? Jesus had to clear up Nicodemus' confusion. Now in regard to John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in contex with verse 5 are verses 14-18.

 

[nedsk]

How could Jesus be talking about physical birth and water baptism at the same time in John 3:5? Jesus had to clear up Nicodemus' confusion. Now in regard to John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in contex with verse 5 are verses 14-18.

So Jesus had to clear up his confusion? Does Jesus do that in other places in Scripture?

 

[mailmandan]

Are you saying that Nicodemus was not confused? In John 3:4, we read - Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

 

[nedsk]

Are you saying that Nicodemus was not confused? In John 3:4, we read - Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

You talking to me??? I always wonder why people don't reply directly. If you are talking to me I never mentioned Nicodemus I asked about Jesus. Try again

 

[FaithWillDo]

Don't get confused, I believe Scripture I just don't believe your version of Scripture. If you think that's the same thing then you have greater problems. You don't speak with an authority about Scripture that I recognize. So you can post these lengthy responses but they are meaningless to me and sheer volume of words doesn't mean you're right.

Dear nedsk,
My posts are long because I support what I believe with scripture. If your truth comes from God's Word, why won't you believe the scriptures that I post? You should think about your answer the next time you pray.

Truth is only revealed by Christ and He only reveals it when He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon a person.

Jer 33:3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

Paul's blindness and inability to eat that began on the Damascus Road represents his spiritual blindness and inability to understand Christ's spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. It was only after Paul called out to the Lord (prayed) that he received the Latter Rain three days later. It was only at that time that the scales fell from Paul's eyes. After Paul's spiritual blindness was healed, Paul was told to "eat meat". After he did, Paul was spiritually strengthened by the truth that he consumed.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

This same truth taught by Paul's conversion matches exactly with what the scripture below teaches:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (spiritual blindness healed by the Latter Rain). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (unconverted babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

This truth is again confirmed by this scripture:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and Rain (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (had become apostate/man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Here is one more scripture that teaches about what happens after Christ's gives the Latter Rain to a fallen away babe:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation (same as seeing that your wickedness is great), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

If you want to "see", I recommend doing as God's Word says and "call unto the Lord". Christ is the healer of the blind.

Joe

 

[nedsk]

Dear nedsk,
My posts are long because I support what I believe with scripture. If your truth comes from God's Word, why won't you believe the scriptures that I post? You should think about your answer the next time you pray.

Truth is only revealed by Christ and He only reveals it when He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon a person.

Jer 33:3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

Paul's blindness and inability to eat that began on the Damascus Road represents his spiritual blindness and inability to understand Christ's spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. It was only after Paul called out to the Lord (prayed) that he received the Latter Rain three days later. It was only at that time that the scales fell from Paul's eyes. After Paul's spiritual blindness was healed, Paul was told to "eat meat". After he did, Paul was spiritually strengthened by the truth that he consumed.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

This same truth taught by Paul's conversion matches exactly with what the scripture below teaches:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (spiritual blindness healed by the Latter Rain). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (unconverted babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

This truth is again confirmed by this scripture:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and Rain (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (had become apostate/man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Here is one more scripture that teaches about what happens after Christ's gives the Latter Rain to a fallen away babe:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation (same as seeing that your wickedness is great), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

If you want to "see", I recommend doing as God's Word says and "call unto the Lord". Christ is the healer of the blind.

Joe

You tell me what you think it says. AGAIN I don't recognize your authority on Scripture. If you can't even understand what I'm saying..... You people believe stuff not in Scripture but ignore what is.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You tell me what you think it says. AGAIN I don't recognize your authority on Scripture. If you can't even understand what I'm saying..... You people believe stuff not in Scripture but ignore what is.

Dear nedsk,
I post the scriptures that support my statements and most of those scriptures are not difficult to understand. You simply reject what they teach because it conflicts with your present understanding. You are still preferring the Old Wine over the New Wine as Christ said would be the case for babes. For that spiritual condition to change, Christ must act within your life. Again, I recommend that you pray for understanding because Christ is the only one who can give it to you.
Joe

 

[nedsk]

Dear nedsk,
I post the scriptures that support my statements and most of those scriptures are not difficult to understand. You simply reject what they teach because it conflicts with your present understanding. You are still preferring the Old Wine over the New Wine as Christ said would be the case for babes. For that spiritual condition to change, Christ must act within your life. Again, I recommend that you pray for understanding because Christ is the only one who can give it to you.
Joe

You can rinse and repeat but it doesn't change anything. You're really struggling arent you? You are not an authority of Scripture that I recognize. You can recommend all you life.

 

[mailmandan]

Are you saying that Nicodemus was not confused? In John 3:4, we read - Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

Yes. I thought I tagged you but it turns out I did not. That was in response to your question, - "Jesus had to clear up his confusion?"

 

[ScottA]

Hi ScottA
Yes. What you've posted is how I understood John 3:5 when I first began to study scripture many years ago.
But baptism is also beginning to make sense.

Nicodemus' reply seems, to me, to indicate water of natural child birth when he asks Jesus how he could go back into the womb again.
Did Jesus correct him to state that Nico was wrong?
I don't think so....Not sure.

Is that you in the pix?
You look different...like you've lost a lot of weight.
I hope you're OK.

Water Baptism is again an image or example of the greater circumstances regarding our being born into the filth of our own sin, needing to be washed clean, and then reborn of the incorruptible spirit of God.

As for greater meaning, it is but to the church as the law and the daily sacrifice were to Israel: a religious practice to repeat a thousand times an echo of what was said in the beginning with the waters above and below the firmament, but not fully understood as the parable of revelation that it is.

As for me, yes I have lost weight, but all is good. Thank you!

 

[FaithWillDo]

You can rinse and repeat but it doesn't change anything. You're really struggling arent you? You are not an authority of Scripture that I recognize. You can recommend all you life.

Dear nedsk,
Isn't God's Word your authority? Why would you listen to any man when you have access to the highest authority?

Your beliefs should be coming from the scriptures that I have posted. Can't you see that those scriptures contradict your present beliefs? Doesn't that bother you?

Please think about those questions. They are for your internal consumption.

I plan for this to be my last post to you (as the Lord wills).

Joe

 

[JohnDB]

Yes. I'm sure there's more to Peter walking on the water....which is just plainly understood as keeping our eyes on Jesus and we will not drown.

When is your book going to be available?
I'm sure there'll be a lot of this in there.


So are you saying the water in John 3:5 is the Law, or as some would say, the word??
So it would be saying:
You must be born of the law and the spirit.
This would make sense.
Why?
Because we still are required to obey God....
but this time the law is written on the heart and not on stone.

This verse has always baffled me....any way it's explained it can make sense.


Yes. Have always understood Genesis 1 to be God making order of something that was already there...
(but which HE also created, of course).


In Matthew 5 Jesus states that our righteousness must be greater than that of the pharisees.
How can it be greater if they attempted to follow all the 613 laws perfectly?
Because we need to obey with our heart and not from a list....
But the list IS necessary or how would we know what the laws are....

To answer your questions...

Book is under editing currently....I am a lousy writer....wife is excellent. She first edited what I wrote and now is busy re-writing my sections to make it better with more clarity. (You can't just edit garbage and make it work) So the whole process is just taking longer than I'd like. But it covers a LOT.

One of the subjects is micro vx macro view.

And this is where BOTH viewpoints are needed because of the typology used.

We must follow God in "Spirit and in truth".
Meaning our faith is based not on our own ideas (above all else the heart is the most deceitful/wicked) but upon scriptures.

I can, create a religion of the Holy Hamster full of all sorts of hedonistic pleasures while claiming to follow God....until scriptures are involved which will destroy my ideas of holy hamster behaviors. Because scriptures contain Truth as well as dictates and commands. Even today people like to use scissors on scriptures by deliberately forgetting to know/learn uncomfortable sections when it bruises a favorite pet theology they have.
Truly it's an "all or none" type deal. And if your pet theology doesn't fit with all scriptures....what is likely incorrect? Your understanding or the pet theology or both?

And yes, our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees who followed all 613 laws the best of anyone. (And they even accurately measured the water they used to wash their hands every time)

We need the righteousness of Christ....
Thank God for Jesus.

Of course none of us can be as good as Jesus....the plumb line of scriptures tells us that. Which is what scriptures (aka the Law) is for. It makes us realize our DESPERATE NEED for a Savior....which we ONLY have through Jesus. No other Savior will work.

However, there are times that codified law cannot cover man's inventive nature for evil. Where people are literally forced into committing a lesser sin just to survive. (Including adultery which Jesus demonstrated in John 8) So in these instances the Good News is that God does indeed understand that these things happen (like horrendous parents, abusive husbands or wives or other instances of Law Breaking) and we are not bound by the letter of the Law but the Spirit. (AKA law written on our hearts)

Now about this amniotic fluid from birthing....
Jesus was not gonna tell Nicodemus what is unnecessary or common knowledge. Nor was John going to waste precious and expensive paper and ink writing out a foregone conclusion that someone must be physically born to be saved. (Is there another method for human beings?)

Scriptures are written in a very concentrated manner where all "of course" knowledge is never repeated. Usually physical nature or extremely common known behavior is excluded. Like when "Peter ran" to Jesus's tomb....needed because Jews did not run....and the included running was needed but the fact that Jews never ran anywhere was not included...because it's common knowledge everywhere in the known world.