Unity of the faith - at what cost?

[David in NJ]

No. There is no consensus on what the Bible means.


All those things GUARANTEE there is no doctrinal unity.
And there never will be.

The only unity possible is when we ALL accept each other where we are DESPITE differences.

[

There is no consensus on what the Bible means.

Double speak and opposes Christ

All those things GUARANTEE there is no doctrinal unity.

Exactly = just as God said in His Word

The only unity possible is when we ALL accept each other where we are DESPITE differences.

As long as we all receive CHRIST
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;

Unity also belongs to those who reject CHRIST
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Unity for those who come to the LIGHT
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Does reading the Bible make people stupid? - It doesn't have to, but...

Based on observations on the forum, I have to wonder. Mindless parroting of memorized apologetics reveal a lack of cognitive ability. IMHO Does reading the Bible make people stupid? It doesn't have to, but... I have to ask. To be clear, there is plenty of good to learn from the Bible...

www.christianityboard.com

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[DJT_47]

How many truths are there or can there be? There's one. Close don't count. And difference in doctrine when it affects a subject like salvation, can't be brushed aside or accepted.

 

[amigo de christo]

The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries.
Are we there yet? (not by a long shot)

Where is the problem?
Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity.

- Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences?
- Does the Body of Christ have room for differing views on doctrine?
- What would the church look like if we didn't label differing views as BAD or FALSE doctrines?
- Is a differing view unbiblical simply because it doesn't agree with our own biblical position?
- Can two opposing views BOTH be biblical, if there is biblical evidence to support each view is given?

and so long as men who love the power and control
so long as men who love the pre emeinence
CONTINUE to tell this people , HEY you cant learn the bible on your own
THERE BE WILL NO TRUE DOCTRINAL UNITY UNDER CHRIST .
WHEN o when will this people learn .
Unity of the faith . YOU know how many people and how many times i have heard this
ONLY TO FIND OUT their version of what they call unity of the faith
IS INTERFAITH , ITS LETS ALL COEXIST and FIND COMMON GROUND .
ENOUGH with this stuff everyone . WHO is with me . WE have to get everyone back into the bible RIGHT now
to learn for themselves . UNITY of the faith , they have no idea what faith is
AND THEY sure are not CENTERED ON CHRIST .
wanna KNOW HOW I KNOW THEY ARE NOT CENTERED ON CHRIST .
WHERE IS THE PREACHING and the REMINDER OF THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO REPENT TO BELEIVE ON HIM .
rather its OH LETS JUST ALL HUG and FIND COMMON GROUND . LETS not warn against any sins
LETS now even join hands with all other religoins , AND we all serve the same GOD . THAT IS HOW I KNOW
JESUS IS NOT ITS CENTER , GOD IS NOT ITS CENTER . JESUS IS BEING DENIED . HOW long are folks gonna put up
with this stuff . WELL i wont . I Will not join hands and find common ground
WITH darkness . Rather WE UNIFY WITH THOSE WHO ACTUALLY LOVE CHRIST
and not messages that DENY HIM .

 

[amigo de christo]

Double speak and opposes Christ


Exactly = just as God said in His Word


As long as we all receive CHRIST
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;

Unity also belongs to those who reject CHRIST
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Unity for those who come to the LIGHT
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

and so long as men who love the power and control
so long as men who love the pre emeinence
CONTINUE to tell this people , HEY you cant learn the bible on your own
THERE BE WILL NO TRUE DOCTRINAL UNITY UNDER CHRIST .
WHEN o when will this people learn .
Unity of the faith . YOU know how many people and how many times i have heard this
ONLY TO FIND OUT their version of what they call unity of the faith
IS INTERFAITH , ITS LETS ALL COEXIST and FIND COMMON GROUND .
ENOUGH with this stuff everyone . WHO is with me . WE have to get everyone back into the bible RIGHT now
to learn for themselves . UNITY of the faith , they have no idea what faith is
AND THEY sure are not CENTERED ON CHRIST .
wanna KNOW HOW I KNOW THEY ARE NOT CENTERED ON CHRIST .
WHERE IS THE PREACHING and the REMINDER OF THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO REPENT TO BELEIVE ON HIM .
rather its OH LETS JUST ALL HUG and FIND COMMON GROUND . LETS not warn against any sins
LETS now even join hands with all other religoins , AND we all serve the same GOD . THAT IS HOW I KNOW
JESUS IS NOT ITS CENTER , GOD IS NOT ITS CENTER . JESUS IS BEING DENIED . HOW long are folks gonna put up
with this stuff . WELL i wont . I Will not join hands and find common ground
WITH darkness . Rather WE UNIFY WITH THOSE WHO ACTUALLY LOVE CHRIST
and not messages that DENY HIM .

 

[amigo de christo]

How many truths are there or can there be? There's one. Close don't count. And difference in doctrine when it affects a subject like salvation, can't be brushed aside or accepted.

close dont count at all . EITHER ITS THE TRUE
or its just one decked up lie .

 

[St. SteVen]

How many truths are there or can there be? There's one. Close don't count. And difference in doctrine when it affects a subject like salvation, can't be brushed aside or accepted.

What is the singular truth of the doctrine of salvation?
Is there consensus among believers?

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[Ezra]

The words of God & of Christ are the doctrines that we must follow.
Many has certainly twisted them by their own theological interpretations.
Do or should   any of us accept man's word, when we have God's?

good point most claim there doctrine is correct .. me personally i can not accept the apostolic pentecostal doctrine.... the way they baptize the speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy spirit the oneness teaching ..i was listening a to message on restoration and and in just about every sentence .the word apostolic was used .

i can not nor will not go along with catholic and many others our unity comes through Christ john 17 he prayed for us to be one in him

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


we all read and see things different in scripture and nothing wrong with that... i can not compromise what i feel is truth for me. in the name of unity

 

[St. SteVen]

i can not compromise what i feel is truth for me. in the name of unity

Agree.
If we are to have unity, how will it happen?
Those with doctrine at odds with yours feel the same way.

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[Ezra]

Agree.
If we are to have unity, how will it happen?
Those with doctrine at odds with yours feel the same way.

[

thats just how it is i have a buddy we talk we pretty much believe in general along the same principal . there are areas we dont agree on but try to convert each other over.. if i see it could cause a issue in our discussion i dont say anything.. its the obvious things that simply is not scripture.... no 2 people are going to agree %100 i am a pastor my oldest brother is a pastor for the most we agree.. but once again some things we dont. we avoid naturally he has been in the ministry over 40 years .. compared to my 25 years.. yet we still have unity for ministry..our unity is in Christ

 

[amigo de christo]

good point most claim there doctrine is correct .. me personally i can not accept the apostolic pentecostal doctrine.... the way they baptize the speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy spirit the oneness teaching ..i was listening a to message on restoration and and in just about every sentence .the word apostolic was used .

i can not nor will not go along with catholic and many others our unity comes through Christ john 17 he prayed for us to be one in him

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


we all read and see things different in scripture and nothing wrong with that... i can not compromise what i feel is truth for me. in the name of unity

None can compromise . The question we need to ask ourselves , however , is is what i Feel really Truth .
The reason i say that is due to the fact that many might often Feel something to be true or right
but that dont make it true or right .
The simple thing one should do is read often and daily the scriptures for themselves .
Not just a phrase here and there but i mean whole letters at a time .
Not through any denomintial lens either . Read it for ourselves .
Then amongst ourselves we can talk about it too . I agree we cannot compromise Truth for unity .
IT must be UNITY under TRUTH , And GOD is TRUTH , CHRIST is TRUTH , and doctrine matters to GOD
and should matter to us .
We would truly have been so amazed at how easily things can be cleared up if this was done .
Me and a few others read it also together . Its peaceful and good for the soul .

 

[amigo de christo]

thats just how it is i have a buddy we talk we pretty much believe in general along the same principal . there are areas we dont agree on but try to convert each other over.. if i see it could cause a issue in our discussion i dont say anything.. its the obvious things that simply is not scripture

A issue . You wrote eif i see it could cause a issue in our discussion that you dont say anything .
Lets rethink this one more time and ask ourselves
If what one beleives dishonors God , is error and thus darn sure not good for the other
Then where is our love for GOD or them if we can leave them in error for sake of not causing an issue .
But if you dont mind me asking you what is it you two try and convert each other over .
I mean what does this other one beleive that you need to be converted too
and what is it that you beleive he or she needs to be converted from .
Because if its certain doctrines and denominations , quite a few of them are deadly
and we sure do need to pull folks from such .
And if it do cause seperation , THEN It was just the way it was to be .
IN other words i am not gonna yoke up with a mormon
or jw or RCC person
What i am to do is to speak truth . TRUTH is what THEY SURELY need to hear .
Those are some dangerous denominations and they aint the only ones either .
Our mission on earth , while we still have breath in these bodies , IS to do all to HONOR GOD
who saved us and do all to pull anyone outta dangerous beleifs . TO correct any dissumulations
and errors FOR the good of the people trapped within them .
As far as meats , what one eats , what days etc
THAT i leave up to the individual and i eat as they eat and etc . CEPT no blood peroid.
Our unity , our fellowship , our etc , MUST be first and foremost CENTERED unto GOD and HIS CHRIST
and with those whose love is for HIM are those we fellowship and have unity with .
People seem to forget that while we are to love our neighbor as ourself
WE SHOULD have LOVED GOD , HIS CHRIST above all . Putting NOTHING and no one before him for the sake of anything .

 

[Ezra]

But if you dont mind me asking you what is it you two try and convert each other over .
I mean what does this other one beleive that you need to be converted too
and what is it that you beleive he or she needs to be converted from .

we dont try to convert each other the scripture strain at a qnat gag at a camel.. one example he feels judas was saved when her betrayed Christ... i do not even though i am older than him we both came out of the same lifestyle .. i often joke with him he makes me look like a saint. we both use to party .we smoked ( and i dont mean mean winstons ) we drank we cussed. we have a friendship we also are brothers in Christ .
he preaches you can be saved and lose your salvation .. i preach there is a know so salvation, i dont jump in with can you or can you not. he knows where i stand. often times we get into the discussion of the subject.... i clarify my stand and paul wrote what shall we sin because we are under grace? certainly not grace is not a reason to sin... what i am saying is we both have variances in our beliefs . its not salvation threatening

when its over he is still bro pete and i am still bro jerry.. he has quirks or so do i.. he is outspoken and so am i... yet we still have unity amos 3:3

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? i cant have fellowship/ unity with some one in darkness . once again our unity is in Christ Jesus . abiding in Christ .


strange fire i dont bother . now if he becomes in error /falls then its my job to help him get back on the path galatians 6:1


in a forum we can be what ever we want . there are many subjects i have disagreed with. calvinism water baptism for salvation.

i have been booted out because i told admin i did not agree with them



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[Ezra]

A issue . You wrote eif i see it could cause a issue in our discussion that you dont say anything .
Lets rethink this one more time and ask ourselves

i agree but as i stated we both know each other and know where we stand i listed a couple areas we vary on.. but not to the point he goes his way i go my way .. we have known each other for many moons i knew his mom and gparents

 

[amigo de christo]

we dont try to convert each other the scripture strain at a qnat gag at a camel.. one example he feels judas was saved when her betrayed Christ... i do not even though i am older than him we both came out of the same lifestyle .. i often joke with him he makes me look like a saint. we both use to party .we smoked ( and i dont mean mean winstons ) we drank we cussed. we have a friendship we also are brothers in Christ .
he preaches you can be saved and lose your salvation .. i preach there is a know so salvation, i dont jump in with can you or can you not. he knows where i stand. often times we get into the discussion of the subject.... i clarify my stand and paul wrote what shall we sin because we are under grace? certainly not grace is not a reason to sin... what i am saying is we both have variances in our beliefs . its not salvation threatening

when its over he is still bro pete and i am still bro jerry.. he has quirks or so do i.. he is outspoken and so am i... yet we still have unity amos 3:3

Amos 3:3​

3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? i cant have fellowship/ unity with some one in darkness . once again our unity is in Christ Jesus . abiding in Christ .​

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strange fire i dont bother . now if he becomes in error /falls then its my job to help him get back on the path galatians 6:1​

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in a forum we can be what ever we want . there are many subjects i have disagreed with. calvinism water baptism for salvation.​

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i have been booted out because i told admin i did not agree with them​

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Friend i been booted out of more places and given and called more names than perhaps
there are chins in a chinese phonebook . or smiths in an english one .
SO LONG as what we speak is truth , live is truth , love is truth then that is on those who name call against us .
And beleive you me that some of them names
called to me in person are names THERE IS NO WAY i am gonna repeat in the presence of anyone .
SO long as we are speaking Truth and our desire was for their good , THEN WE are doing that which is right .
But friend in this all inclusive judge not correct not world and worse christendom
WE better brace ourselves and realize , WE WILL be hated big time . But no matter how they hate this sheep so
I DO as i do and that by the grace of GOD for their good and UNTO THE GLORY OF HE WHO SAVED ME .
JESUS didnt walk around worrying about what to say . HE SPOKE TRUTH
and if TRUTH offended them , HE DIDNT try and double down and alter the TRUTH in any way
or overlook their error in any way JUST to get them to come to him . EITHER ONE is of HIM
or they are not . AND IF one rebukes a sheep he will love them . NOT SO with those who love their sin
they will fang you for exposing their sin .

 

[Ezra]

WE better brace ourselves and realize , WE WILL be hated big time

that is very evident of the times we live in

 

[amigo de christo]

that is very evident of the times we live in

I agree. In fact, for a few decades now, at least, in North America and many nations ,, I believe the majority of people in a church on Sunday morning are not saved. The Church has been warped into a "hospital for the sin-sick," and a place for the "seeker" to find God, and an industry and, as a result, the Church is crammed with false converts/consumers - and the spiritually poisonous "leaven" they bring with them (1 Co. 5:6; Ga. 5:9).

 

[Ezra]

the Church is crammed with false converts/consumers - and the spiritually poisonous "leaven" they bring with them (1 Co. 5:6; Ga. 5:9).

possible very possible all through out the Bible they have warned of this very thing.. Christ gave the parable of the wheat and tares .. the tares would be separated at judgment. the tares darnel wheat act look like speak like the real McCoy we cant pull them out for fear of damaging the real.. here recently i had felt i had a real conversion take place at the Church i pastor. a young man came to me bawling and a squalling.. in his words i was preaching right at him. he said he needed forgiveness. i said you want go to the altar ? he busted that altart wide open i instructed him tell the Lord what he wanted. he asked for forgiveness i heard him pray..

eh lasted about 3 weeks or so never returned of course he had come with his live in girlfriend .. i preached hard on living together and the new life. sad to say that seed feel somewhere in the thorns the rocks and the wayside ,

honestly we are told to break up our fallow ground .. in the words of a old time preacher man .. we have just enough oil to take care of our self , there will always be a remnant. i am considering making a very big purchase and have some things to do first.. as i was talking with the business person they mentioned Church .. so i sad in a type sarcastic way o your one of them Church people.. caught her off guard . then my wife spoke up told her i was a pastor . she then said she dont go as much as she should...

that is what we are facing not as much as we should . we have to many shiny things distracting us. Church don't save us church dont keep us saved. jesus does .

. The Church has been warped into a "hospital for the sin-sick," and a place for the "seeker" to find God, and an industry and, as a result,

the Church certainly is a Hospital a sanctuary a worship center . its what ever you need including a fellowship center . its not attending that helps us.. its what we get out of it.. if the darnell wheat is there at least they can hear the word and a chance

 

[amigo de christo]

possible very possible all through out the Bible they have warned of this very thing.. Christ gave the parable of the wheat and tares .. the tares would be separated at judgment. the tares darnel wheat act look like speak like the real McCoy we cant pull them out for fear of damaging the real.. here recently i had felt i had a real conversion take place at the Church i pastor. a young man came to me bawling and a squalling.. in his words i was preaching right at him. he said he needed forgiveness. i said you want go to the altar ? he busted that altart wide open i instructed him tell the Lord what he wanted. he asked for forgiveness i heard him pray..

eh lasted about 3 weeks or so never returned of course he had come with his live in girlfriend .. i preached hard on living together and the new life. sad to say that seed feel somewhere in the thorns the rocks and the wayside ,

honestly we are told to break up our fallow ground .. in the words of a old time preacher man .. we have just enough oil to take care of our self , there will always be a remnant. i am considering making a very big purchase and have some things to do first.. as i was talking with the business person they mentioned Church .. so i sad in a type sarcastic way o your one of them Church people.. caught her off guard . then my wife spoke up told her i was a pastor . she then said she dont go as much as she should...

that is what we are facing not as much as we should . we have to many shiny things distracting us. Church don't save us church dont keep us saved. jesus does .




the Church certainly is a Hospital a sanctuary a worship center . its what ever you need including a fellowship center . its not attending that helps us.. its what we get out of it.. if the darnell wheat is there at least they can hear the word and a chance

Look at that last line you wrote .
The problem is THAT IN these seeker sensitive churches , THE GOSPLE IS NOT preached , Sin is not exposed .
Because that offends and divides . We got massive problems in the house myfriend .
TO THE TRENCHES and let none look back , WE MAKE OUR STAND for the true faith , for the Word of GOD
having all faith , all hope and trust IN HIM . The trickle
of water that came in through the first cracks that said judge not correct not
HAS BUSTED through and become a flood of delusion . All who made their house upon the love of the world
and of men WILL DROWN in DELUSION and be whisked away to the great water fall of their own destructoin and perdition .
TO the trenches one and all , WE MAKE OUR STAND NOW .

 

[Ezra]

Look at that last line you wrote .
The problem is THAT IN these seeker sensitive churches , THE GOSPLE IS NOT preached , Sin is not exposed .
Because that offends and divides . We got massive problems in the house myfriend .

easy i dont know of any of these type churches. every church i know preaches the word in season out of season reprove and rebuke. the pastors i know are by far ear ticklers. maybe you have had a bad church experience i dont know.. but you seem really down on church.. its a tough job as a pastor and trying to feed sheep who have no desire to eat.