IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[Scott Downey]

QUOTE
"The Holy Bible does not say that"
Jesus said it.
Please do not misrepresent His word.

QUOTE
"worthy to escape" is NOT synonymous with "evacuation."
Tell it to Lot and the baby Jesus.
Both evacuated , and those dynamics are not in your talking points
And never will be..

QUOTE
"The ones taken were taken to destruction - not evacuation"
Not in the bible.
All postribbers try and reframe the impossible.
JESUS said "one taken, one left behind "
Of The group that half are taken, it can not be, a group of Earth's population. ( not even remotely possible)
But you guys need it to be.
You NEED half of earth's population wicked, and half righteous. And some wicked rapture of half earth's population.
That is such an obvious red flag.
But that IMPOSSIBILITY Is your talking point.

It gets worse for that "wicked taken" assumption.
Because Jesus said "BEFORE THE FLOOD 2 men shall be in a bed, one taken, the other left".
Again half the world is not righteous.
But your doctrine is trying to say " AFTER THE TRIB ,2 men in a bed. The wicked one is taken. "
IOW....The on fire for Jesus, spirit filled believer, is IN BED, SLEEPING WITH A DEMON FILLED, ANTICHIST MARKED, SATAN WORSHIPPING HEATHEN.
That us what you are saying.
But it gets even worse, because Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD we see normal life, Everyday life, Commerce, and planning for the future, marriage , and betrothal. (ahem....the PRETRIB setting no postrib has ever comprehended) THEN IN THAT SETTING...one taken, one left.!!!!
So your doctrine has a pretrib rapture of the wicked (one half of the world), in the wrong setting, with Jesus telling the wicked to watch and be ready, and you guys proclaim it as if it is true.!!!!!
Totally bizarre.


Postribbers actually make an impossibility their talking point.

Jesus said, just a few verses later, half are taken TO HEAVEN.
Another SUBGROUP where Half of A SUBGROUP are taken to heaven.

That is 2 mighty witnesses against your doctrine talking points.
( more like 20 witnesses)

Not all unsaved are full of demons, antichrist marked, satan worshippers, heathen or even crazy, most are normal kinds of people, they are though deceived.

I would say a lot of them are religious, moral type folk, they just are not saved.
2 People in one bed, I suppose could be thought of today as husband and wife. Back then, and in some places today, same sex people do share a bed, but are not sexually involved.

When Jesus returns there is a sudden destruction of the wicked and the world.

Entire chapter here on the return of Christ, where is the antichrist, the beast, and the mark mentioned?
There is mentioned tribulation on the saints.
Some of that about Satan shows up in 2 Thessalonians 2

This entire chapter speaks as if not all believers are wiped out by the beast before Christ's return
note v7
and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels

2 Thessalonians 1
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 1 - New King James Version

Greeting - Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. God’s Final Judgment and Glory - We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Scott Downey]

Can anyone say amen to how Paul has written to the Thessalonian believers, that they will be alive on earth at the return of Christ?

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Then in 2 Thessalonians, Paul teaches of our gathering to Christ (rapture is not a word in scripture, just a meme)
AND the way Jesus and Paul teaches this requires us to be present as witnesses of these things, otherwise your illogical.


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our day of gathering to Christ will NOT occur until the revealing of that man of sin. Which means we will be witnesses of these things.

And Jesus says like this, Watch and Be Ready!
'WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS"

Matthew 24

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That Day of Christ, what Christ is teaching in Matthew 24 is that Day of His returning, when He comes again, it is the same things being taught by Paul in 1 and 2 Thessalonians, not a secret invisible rapture.

 

[doctrox]

QUOTE
"The Holy Bible does not say that"
Jesus said it.
Please do not misrepresent His word.

Then it should be easy for you to post scripture affirming your claim, but you can't because there isn't any.

QUOTE
"The ones taken were taken to destruction - not evacuation"
Not in the bible.
All postribbers try and reframe the impossible.
JESUS said "one taken, one left behind "

Yes, "in the bible."

The Holy Bible is what you need to be reading, rather than the opinions of other men. Your post contains NOT ONE scripture reference.

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!

It gets worse for that "wicked taken" assumption.
Because Jesus said "BEFORE THE FLOOD 2 men shall be in a bed, one taken, the other left".
Again half the world is not righteous.
But your doctrine is trying to say " AFTER THE TRIB ,2 men in a bed. The wicked one is taken. "
IOW....The on fire for Jesus, spirit filled believer, is IN BED, SLEEPING WITH A DEMON FILLED, ANTICHIST MARKED, SATAN WORSHIPPING HEATHEN.
That us what you are saying.

One reason why you are so conflicted is that you do not understand that the "one taken, one left" episode is NOT the tribulation. It is what is known as the reckoning (another topic for another time). So your ensuing argument is nothing but an error-filled straw man, constructed via your ignorance.

 

[Scott Downey]

Then it should be easy for you to post scripture affirming your claim, but you can't because there isn't any.


Yes, "in the bible."

The Holy Bible is what you need to be reading, rather than the opinions of other men. Your post contains NOT ONE scripture reference.

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


One reason why you are so conflicted is that you do not understand that the "one taken, one left" episode is NOT the tribulation. It is what is known as the reckoning (another topic for another time). So your ensuing argument is nothing but an error-filled straw man, constructed via your ignorance.

Matthew 24:28
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Carcass is definitely a dead body, eaten by birds. They are taken away to destruction.
The flood came and took them all away.
It is very definitive, the people of God inherit the new earth, while the wicked, unbelieving and those who do not obey the gospel go into the fire.

Luke 3

7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood[b] of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

15 Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, 16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 3 - New King James Version

John the Baptist Prepares the Way - Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, while Annas and Caiaphas...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Scott Downey]

Luke 17
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them.

24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.

25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 17 - New King James Version

Jesus Warns of Offenses - Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little...

www.biblegateway.com

The above disproves the pre-trib rapture, as the people of God will long to see Christ's DAY and won't see it yet.
Means the times will be evil, trying times upon the earth before His returning.

And on the DAY Noah and Lot were saved, delivered by God, then came the destruction. Both were there right until the Day the flood came, and the day the fire came down from heaven.

Even so it will be when the Son of Man is revealed. On that DAY of His return is our salvation and their destruction.

 

[Scott Downey]

We are saved from wrath on the Day of wrath, on the Last Day
When Christ returns, is the resurrection, the dead in Christ rise, and the judgment happens at His appearing and kingdom.

Hebrews 9
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be [j]purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

2 Thessalonians 1

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you,

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Timothy 4
New King James Version

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 4 - New King James Version

Preach the Word - I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Fred J]

You don't get it.
If all take the mark then there are ONLY THOSE REFUSING that are left with no mark.
Those refusing are martyred.

You don't get it from what am testifying and quoting, you're just going off and returning slow in learning, i understand.

Do you understand there is no hope for a postrib rapture?
All left behinds are beheaded..
Only pre-trib fits
Nothing else does.

To you, 'all that left behind are beheaded', when is their rapture, since to you there's already a pertrib taken place??

And again and again, where is the scripture quote to support your claims??

 

[Fred J]

If you are referring to Rev 20, it supports PRETRIB RAPTURE AND THOSE REFUSING THE MARK BEHEADED DURING THE TRIB.

How silly one can get, anti-Christ's appearance and reign over the world, marks the start of the Great Tribulation.

Therefore, your pretrib rapture is a 'bogus' of a heretic.

You don't understand dead left behinds DO NOT "go through" the 7 yr gt?

Folly, apparently you don't get it and babbling without scripture to support your claim, but copy and paste scripture to fit your false pretrib rapture.

First of all, Great Tribulation last only three and a half years, not 7 years.

Second, according to the parable, 'one is taken and the other left behind', the left behind are not dead but alive!

Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD.

JESUS SAID BEFORE SODOM BURNED

You don't get it??????
You don't know what "before" means?

You don't understand " like manner" of Acts changed 1?

You don't understand the virgin parable ?

You don't understand JESUS WORDS " I will keep you out of the trib"?

....I know for a fact you never pray The COMMAND OF JESUS : "pray that you may be found worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world..."

JESUS SAID IT .
You cast all that down.
You say "Jesus never said any of that"

I don't know what to tell you to get you out of that rebellion against the words of Jesus..

It's best you enjoy your false pertrib rapture, for many have believed in this and number of false messiahs have lead these unlearned and unstable to death in the past.

For the Lord did not return, and in desperation and probably some ashamed, they commit suicide, even drinking poison etc.

 

[Fred J]

True born again readers, the scripture read, at the Lord's second coming the first resurrection takes place.

Why is read, first resurrection, now is there a 'second resurrection' for ones left behind, who also shall die for their testimony of Christ and the word of GOD ??

Since also read, 'but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished'. 'And to those hath part in the first resurrection, death hath no power on such'.

Revelation chapter 6 read, 'opening of the fifth seal', 'the ones taken and under the alter were told to rest yet a little season, until their fellowservants and their brethren should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled'.

After Christ died and rose again, He is alone the 'firstfruit of resurrection', since and till now.

And none after that from the Apostles to the church until today resurrected, for the dead in Christ are yet 'asleep'.

Only in Revelation chapter 20, we read about the 'first resurrection', of the dead in Christ shall rise first. And, those alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

They include the ones beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of GOD. And, 'had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark on their foreheads and their hands'.

Does this not debunk the pretrib rapture doctrine of heretics??

And before the first resurrection, the 'wrath of GOD' will also take place, when the anti-Christ fulfills the 'abomination of desolation' in the third Temple. (Revelation ch. 16)

As also during, verse 15 read, a reminder to the saints ready or not of His return, 'Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Looks like the church saints also were there during GOD's wrath poured onto the world, anti-Christ and the false prophet.

i believe the first resurrection will take place even before anti-Christ and the kings of the earth and their armies wage war with Jesus and the armies of Heaven which followed Him.

We only read about the church saints after the first resurrection, they're seated on thrones, and then on reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)

That is after anti-Christ and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire, and satan bound in the bottomless pit likewise a thousand years begins. (Revelation 19:20/20:1&2)

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Then it should be easy for you to post scripture affirming your claim, but you can't because there isn't any.


Yes, "in the bible."

The Holy Bible is what you need to be reading, rather than the opinions of other men. Your post contains NOT ONE scripture reference.

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


One reason why you are so conflicted is that you do not understand that the "one taken, one left" episode is NOT the tribulation. It is what is known as the reckoning (another topic for another time). So your ensuing argument is nothing but an error-filled straw man, constructed via your ignorance.

 

[rebuilder 454]

doctrox said:
"""Then it should be easy for you to post scripture affirming your claim, but you can't because there isn't any.
Yes, "in the bible."
The Holy Bible is what you need to be reading, rather than the opinions of other men. Your post contains NOT ONE scripture reference."""



Maybe address me civilly.
All that combative nonsense is just that.
You wanna talk???

If so calm down and talk rationally.
I didn't know I had TO REFERENCE Mat 24 "one taken, one left", then magically that omission is some decisive victory in your doctrine.
Get civil.
Ask a question civilly .
Tell me where I read the Bible wrong.
Give me your superior interpretation...or whatever.

Maybe start with showing me how you came to the conclusion that at the rapture half the earth is saved and half wicked.
(One taken/one left).

Or how "before the flood" is in error.
Both those verses are in mat 24.

Around verse 39 or so.

 

[rebuilder 454]

True born again readers, the scripture read, at the Lord's second coming the first resurrection takes place.

Why is read, first resurrection, now is there a 'second resurrection' for ones left behind, who also shall die for their testimony of Christ and the word of GOD ??

Since also read, 'but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished'. 'And to those hath part in the first tribulation, death hath no power on such'.

Revelation chapter 6 read, 'opening of the fifth seal', 'the ones taken and under the alter were told to rest yet a little season, until their fellowservants and their brethren should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled'.

After Christ died and rose again, He is alone the 'firstfruit of resurrection', since and till now.

And none after that from the Apostles to the church until today resurrected, for the dead in Christ are yet 'asleep'.

Only in Revelation chapter 20, we read about the 'first resurrection', of the dead in Christ shall rise first. And, those alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

They include the ones beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of GOD. And, 'had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark on their foreheads and their hands'.

Does this not debunk the pretrib rapture doctrine of heretics??

And before the first resurrection, the 'wrath of GOD' will also take place, when the anti-Christ fulfills the 'abomination of desolation' in the third Temple. (Revelation ch. 16)

As also during, verse 15 read, a reminder to the saints ready or not of His return, 'Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Looks like the church saints also were there during GOD's wrath poured onto the world, anti-Christ and the false prophet.

i believe the first resurrection will take place even before anti-Christ and the kings of the earth and their armies wage war with Jesus and the armies of Heaven which followed Him.

We only read about the church saints after the first resurrection they're seated on thrones, and then on reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)

That is after anti-Christ and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire, and satan bound in the bottomless pit likewise a thousand years. (Revelation 19:20/20:1&2)

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amazing you claim I am a heretic and your doctrine deal is way off!!!!

The FIRSTFRUITS ARE Jesus and the patriarchs who were in paradise under the earth.

Stop lying about your brothers while not knowing your Bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How silly one can get, anti-Christ's appearance and reign over the world, marks the start of the Great Tribulation.

Therefore, your pretrib rapture is a 'bogus' of a heretic.

Folly, apparently you don't get it and babbling without scripture to support your claim, but copy and paste scripture to fit your false pretrib rapture.

First of all, Great Tribulation last only three and a half years, not 7 years.

Second, according to the parable, 'one is taken and the other left behind', the left behind are not dead but alive!

It's best you enjoy your false pertrib rapture, for many have believed in this and number of false messiahs have lead these unlearned and unstable to death in the past.

For the Lord did not return, and in desperation and probably some ashamed, they commit suicide, even drinking poison etc.

QUOTE
""How silly one can get, anti-Christ's appearance and reign over the world, marks the start of the Great Tribulation.
Therefore, your pretrib rapture is a 'bogus' of a heretic.""


I don't dispute whatever you want to call it.
If you want it to be "the great trib", then I can work around it.
Try this one on;
"Daniel's 70th week."
Call that 7 yr period anything you want.
You want The last half to be the great tribulation. ?
Then we can work around it.
If you wanna call the first part, the tribulation can the last half the great tribulation, then we can work around it.
If you wanna say some 3.5 years this or that, then we can work around it.
But I don't know how you gonna wiggle out of Daniel's 70 this week being 7 years.
That's the main thing.
Just give me a heads up and call it what you need it to be.
Then we can work around it because I'm not in to the oneliner terms that you guys think are some smoking gun.
I'm in to the whole picture.
Bride waiting for groom.
Groom coming for bride.
Heaven centered ..groom centered.

Get civil and let's go.
Name calling always indicates a weak opponent

 

[rebuilder 454]

rebuilder 454 said:
"Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD.

JESUS SAID BEFORE SODOM BURNED

You don't get it??????
You don't know what "before" means?"

Freds reply:
"It's best you enjoy your false pertrib rapture, for many have believed in this and number of false messiahs have lead these unlearned and unstable to death in the past.
For the Lord did not return, and in desperation and probably some ashamed, they commit suicide, even drinking poison etc."


This is what incivility and bible deprived answers look like

 

[rebuilder 454]

rebuilder 454 said:
You don't get it.
If all take the mark then there are ONLY THOSE REFUSING that are left with no mark.
Those refusing are martyred.


Freds reply:
"You don't get it from what am testifying and quoting, you're just going off and returning slow in learning, i understand."


Broken English.
Does not understand a simple Bible dynamic.
Than claims understanding.

Huh???????

 

[rebuilder 454]

This end times debate is no contest.

ANY postribs out there that can talk civilly?????

Let's go.
Toe to toe.
No additives
No reframing verses.
No one liner" ha ha ha my verse out of context voids your 10 verses deal"
No name calling
Show me your interpretation of my doctrines verses.
(They ain't going away.)

Bible in hand.
Concept vs concept.
No kids stuff.
Man to man.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Then it should be easy for you to post scripture affirming your claim, but you can't because there isn't any.


Yes, "in the bible."

The Holy Bible is what you need to be reading, rather than the opinions of other men. Your post contains NOT ONE scripture reference.

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!


One reason why you are so conflicted is that you do not understand that the "one taken, one left" episode is NOT the tribulation. It is what is known as the reckoning (another topic for another time). So your ensuing argument is nothing but an error-filled straw man, constructed via your ignorance.

QUOTE
"IOW, you want to be left behind!"

Matt 25 the foolish are left behind.

You just testified to your fate.

 

[Fred J]

Amazing you claim I am a heretic and your doctrine deal is way off!!!!

The FIRSTFRUITS ARE Jesus and the patriarchs who were in paradise under the earth.

Yes, thou heretics, where is the scripture quote to justify the underline words above??

Colossians 1:
18. And He is the Head of the body, the church(Jew and Gentile believers): who is the beginning, the firstborn(firstfruit) from the dead((resurrection); that in all things He might have the preeminence.

There's no patriarchs mentioned as the firstborn or firstfruit from the dead with Christ, it's just your 'heresy'!

Give us the Bible verse when did the patriarchs resurrect, or resurrected with Christ as 'firstfruits'??

Give us the Bible verse where is written paradise is under the earth??

When we discern Biblically, graves of dead people buried are under the earth and the patriarchs are 'asleep'.

And paradise described in the beginning was on earth, the garden eastward in Eden where a river went out to water it, and parted hence becoming four common rivers on earth.

And in the garden there is the 'tree of life', where now Cherubims and a flaming sword placed, to keep out anyone from entering. Therefore since, to creature's natural eyes this garden is unseen or in other words, 'invisible'.

It's unlike your own description of paradise under the earth, where probably they're awake and having a ball there while temporarily waiting?

We only have verse, the spirits that rebelled during Noah's time are imprisoned or chained under the earth.

And when Christ was in the heart of the earth, meaning He died and buried, He visited and ministered unto them.

We also read satan will be bound in chain and cast into the bottomless pit for thousand years.

Stop lying about your brothers while not knowing your Bible.

You too stop lying about the Holy Bible and not knowing your brethren!

 

[Fred J]

QUOTE
""How silly one can get, anti-Christ's appearance and reign over the world, marks the start of the Great Tribulation.
Therefore, your pretrib rapture is a 'bogus' of a heretic.""


I don't dispute whatever you want to call it.
If you want it to be "the great trib", then I can work around it.
Try this one on;
"Daniel's 70th week."
Call that 7 yr period anything you want.
You want The last half to be the great tribulation. ?
Then we can work around it.
If you wanna call the first part, the tribulation can the last half the great tribulation, then we can work around it.
If you wanna say some 3.5 years this or that, then we can work around it.
But I don't know how you gonna wiggle out of Daniel's 70 this week being 7 years.
That's the main thing.
Just give me a heads up and call it what you need it to be.
Then we can work around it because I'm not in to the oneliner terms that you guys think are some smoking gun.
I'm in to the whole picture.
Bride waiting for groom.
Groom coming for bride.
Heaven centered ..groom centered.

Get civil and let's go.
Name calling always indicates a weak opponent

You're still in Daniel and stuck, and am in All Scripture = Holy Bible, the New Testament of Jesus Christ.

Where the Son of GOD determines the prophecy of Daniel which is in part, giving His version in the New Testament.

For He and the church face the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy. and not Daniel nor the patriarchs, period

Therefore we're not like you who work around the scriptures, but we work with and on the scriptures, 'As it is written' or 'For it is written'.

For example, Daniel prophesy the Great Tribulation is for 7 years, but the Son of GOD who came later prophesy to His church, GOD has shortened it to 3 1/2 years.

Who's greater, Daniel or the Son of GOD?

You sound to us like according to what Apostle Paul mentioned to us about, 'the sneaked in Jews' to our faith.

You're full of vain words and lack of action to the context of the scripture and teaching testaments.