The Light
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is that you do not understand what the stars falling from heaven is? Try the internet, I'm sure there are many that know.
The "watch rapture view"
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The Light
Well-Known Member
You just proved my point.
No, I don't. God does. The wrath of God is one year.
Please provide a scripture that shows that Israel flees in the midst of the trumpets.
I don't think you can provide one.
Also, all of those 1260 days are not the wrath of God. The wrath of God lasts one-year.
Every question is apparently ridiculous to you. As if some of us have zero reason to ask some of the questions we do. We just like to ask alleged ridiculous questions in order to annoy someone, I guess. That aside.
Apparently AI is just as confused about things as some of you are.
First I Googled this question--is this a simile 'one sat like unto'?
AI Overview
Yes, the phrase "one sat like unto" is a simile. It uses the word "like" to compare the subject ("one") to another thing ("unto the Son of Man" in Revelation 14:14). Similes are a type of figurative language that compare two different things using words like "like" or "as" to create a vivid image or connection.
Explanation:
Simile:
A simile is a figure of speech that directly compares two unlike things using words like "like," "as," or "than".
"One sat like unto":
In this phrase, "like unto" functions as the comparison marker, indicating a comparison between the subject (whoever is seated) and "the Son of Man." This comparison suggests a resemblance or similarity between the two.
Revelation 14:14:
The full phrase in Revelation 14:14 is "And I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of Man". This is a classic example of a simile, drawing a parallel between the figure on the cloud and the Son of Man, a title often associated with Jesus Christ
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Later on I Google this yet again using this as my question--Is Revelation 14:14 a simile? This time around the ai responded with this below, lol. Keeping in mind I'm not meaning chatgpt here. I'm meaning Google.
AI Overview
No, Revelation 14:14 is not a simile. It describes a vision of a figure "like a son of man" on a cloud, but it does not use the word "like" to make a direct comparison, which is the defining characteristic of a simile. Instead, it uses a form of comparison that suggests resemblance or a likeness, which is more akin to a metaphor.
Here's why:
Simile Definition:
.
A simile is a figure of speech that directly compares two different things using words like "like" or "as". For example, "The sky is like a blue ocean."
Revelation 14:14:
.
The verse states, "And I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand." The phrase "one like a son of man" indicates a resemblance, but it's not a direct comparison using "like" or "as". It's more of a description that evokes a symbolic image.
Metaphor:
.
While not a direct simile, the phrase "like a son of man" functions as a kind of metaphor, drawing a connection to the figure described in Daniel 7:13-14, where the "son of man" is a figure of authority and judgment, according to Bible commentaries. It's a symbolic representation, not a straightforward comparison using "like" or "as".
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Only when that's all you do is ask questions instead of actually addressing my points.
In your case, I believe that. Why else would you only ask a question in response to my post instead of actually addressing any of my points?
No one is more confused than you. You just have a desire to be a contrarian, so you deny obvious things because of it.
It's clearly referring to Jesus there, but go ahead and deny the obvious if you insist. Do you recognize Revelation 14:14-17 as referring to the gathering and catching up (rapture) of the church? If not, what else could it be referring to?
What is your point with all of this? How about asking God for wisdom instead of AI about these things (James 1:5-7)?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Jesus and the apostles even told us what to watch for:-
Acts 1
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own authority.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
WHEN THE ABOVE PERIOD DRAWS TO A CLOSE
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
8 And then shall the lawless one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
Matthew 24
12 and because lawlessness will increase so much, the love of many will grow cold.
Revelation 13
7 The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them. He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,
8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.
9 If anyone has an ear, he had better listen!
10 If anyone is meant for captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed by the sword, then by the sword he must be killed. This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.
Matthew 24
9 "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you. You will be hated by all the nations because of my name.
10 Then many will be led into sin, and they will betray one another and hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will appear and deceive many,
12 and because lawlessness will increase so much, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the person who endures to the end will be saved.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Revelation 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
1 Thessalonians 5
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Mark 13
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Therefore if the abomination of desolation in the holy place is something we are to be watching for, then it means that the greatest sign Jesus gave us, has been nullified in the doctrines and theologies and eschatology written into books and taught from pulpits by many shepherds of the flock.
Which is tragic and a great failure on their part, because Paul told us in 2 Thessalonians 2 what that abomination of desolation in the holy place is talking about.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
We don't even agree and can't even agree on what all these things (signs) are that we are supposed to be watching for.
In my opinion it should be very obvious to us - the apostles never taught any differently:
Acts 14
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
The Pre-Trib rapture doctrine is the worst of all the doctrines that nullify what Jesus told us to watch for.
Speaking of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and I will use you, me, and @Spiritual Israelite as examples.
@Spiritual Israelite, like you and I, have the OD involving events pertaining to the 1st century through His return at the end of this age. @Spiritual Israelite, like you and I, know full well that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has to be fulfilled before Christ can return. Except @Spiritual Israelite, unlike you and I, have zero temples in the OD that can fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4. IOW, there is something wrong with that picture in @Spiritual Israelite case. As if it is reasonable that the OD records His coming in the end of this age, but it is completely silent in regards to 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and the temple meant there, as if this verse is not something major that has to be fulfilled before Christ can return. @Spiritual Israelite, like Preterists, have Jesus more focused on 70 AD than what has to happen leading up to His return in the end of this age. As if 70 AD events somehow trump events in the final days of this age leading to His return. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and what all that involves, Revelation 13 being one of them. That it's reasonable, in the OD, that Jesus gave more attention to 70 AD than He did to 2 Thessalonians 2:4. Actually, no attention concerning the latter if one is interpreting the OD in the same manner Preterists and @Spiritual Israelite are.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
So true. Always an insult offered with an argument often based on logical fallacies or just plain fallacies, packaged in hubris and dropped like a bomb on the head of anyone who disagrees with him.
AI's answer is confusing, like the answers given by some around here who really don't know what the answer is to a specific question but still want to appear like they know what they are talking about.
The crown the one in Revelation 14:14 is wearing is a stephanos - one of the two types of crown seen in scripture. The one type of crown in the Revelation is a diadem (royal authority). Only Christ, the heads of the dragon and the ten kings of the beast are seen wearing them.
Revelation 12:3:
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadema (crowns) upon his heads."
Revelation 13:1:
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten diadema (crowns), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."
MANY DIADEMS: THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Revelation 19:16:
"And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." (therefore on His head were MANY diadema):
If Revelation 14:14 is referring to Christ Himself, then He is the only one seen wearing both types of crown in the Revelation, because in Revelation 14:14 the one like the son of man is wearing a stephanos.
The origin of the stephanos crown is the crown placed on the head of the victor in the Olympic Games. These are the people in scripture that wear stephanos crowns in scripture:-
Human beings:-
I Corinthians 9:25:
"And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible stephanos (crown); but we an incorruptible".
Philippians 4:1:
"Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and stephanos (crown), so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved."
I Thessalonians 2:19:
"For what is our hope, or joy, or stephanos (crown) of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"
II Timothy 4:8:
"Henceforth there is laid up for me a stephanos (crown) of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."
James 1:12:
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the stephanos (crown) of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
I Peter 5:4:
"And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a stephanos (crown) of glory that fadeth not away."
Revelation 2:10:
"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a stephanos (crown) of life."
Jesus mocked with a stephanos crown: Matthew 27:29 (parallel Mark 15:17 and John 19:2 & 5):
"And when they had platted a stephanos (crown) of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!"
Revelation 3:11:
"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy stephanos (crown)."
Revelation 4:4:
"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads stephanos (crowns) of gold."
Revelation 4:10:
"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their stephanos (crowns) before the throne."
Revelation 12:1:
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a stephanos (crown) of twelve stars."
Revelation of John 14:14:
"And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden stephanos (crown), and in his hand a sharp sickle."
Revelation 6:2:
"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a stephanos (crown) was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
In the Revelation everything that's associated with the color white is pure:
Jesus' head and hair appear white like wool (Rev 1:14).
A white stone with a saint's name written on it (Rev 2:17).
The white raiment of the saints (Rev.3:5 & 18; 6:11; 7:9, 13 & 14).
The white clothing of the 24 elders (Rev 4:4).
The white clothing of angels (Rev 15:6).
The white raiment of the bride of Christ (Rev 19:8).
The Great White Throne (Rev 20:11).
Christ seated on a white cloud (Rev 14:14).
Christ returns on a white horse, leading His armies (Rev 19:11 & 14).
Christ's armies are riding white horses (Rev 19:14).
The first horseman of the first seal in the Apocalypse is riding a white horse (Revelation 6:2). He is given a stéphanos (crown).
(I'm just telling it like it is. Everyone has their interpretation of the first horseman of the Apocalypse).
FAKE STEPHANOS (CROWNS)
Revelation of John 9:7:
"And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were stephanos (crowns) like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men."
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Yes they are obsessed with calling what was holy under the Old Covenant "holy" under the New Covenant.
Decades before AD70 Paul likened that city to Hagar and said she was in bondage with her children. I really don't understand their obsession. It was for His disciple's sake that Jesus told them to flee Judea when they see armies gather around Jerusalem. He did not speak about armies gathering around "the holy city".
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What was my point then, in regards to my disagreements with @Spiritual Israelite? My point is that 'one sat like unto, appears to be a simile. And that Matthew 13:39 contradicts Revelation 14:14 if the latter is literally meaning Christ. Let's not forget, the reaping in the end of this age involves the reaping of both the good seed and bad seed, and that Jesus said in Matthew 13:39 that His angels, not He Himself, do the reaping. And besides, all @Spiritual Israelite is doing is helping Pretribbers think their position is at least plausible. Because here @Spiritual Israelite is, not even a Pretribber himself, agreeing with Pretribbers that Christ is meant in Revelation 14:14
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Look what this Pretribber was initially arguing---"Jesus sitting on a cloud I. Rev 14 is not Jesus on a white horse in Rev 19.
Hard to wiggle out of that.
"One coming" debunked solidly"
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My guess is that Revelation 14:14 is maybe connected with the elders recorded in Revelation 4 somehow? I'm not dogmatic about that, yet both accounts are involving wearing crowns of gold. Maybe there is something there, maybe there isn't.
Watch for Jesus sent by the Father to rapture us up from this earth as something good, the blessed hope, which we are blessed with the redemption of our bodies, and be taken by Jesus to heaven, to forever be with Him.
How to make sure that we are ready..... by being saved in Christ and to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. And love your neighbor as your self. (Matthew 22:37-39)
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. You are pathetic. You are just a complete joke at this point. And you are a liar. The only verses I believe are related to 70 AD in the Olivet Discourse are Matthew 24:15-22 (Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24) and I believe the rest (the rest of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 as well as all of Matthew 25) all relate to Christ's second coming at the end of the age. But, here you are foolishly lumping me in with preterists as if I interpret the OD as Jesus talking more about things relating to 70 AD than His second coming and the end of the age, which is a big LIE on your part. How do you live with yourself after blatantly lying about me like this?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Look in the mirror, hypocrite. You are describing yourself. I tried to get along with you and you proved you have no interest in that, so I give up on that. You prefer the insults, so don't try to kid anyone as if you think otherwise.
So, I see that you disagree with your Premil buddy about Revelation 14:14. It's clearly referring to Christ, but he can't even see that.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You guys are LIARS. I am not a preterist. Unlike preterists, I don't have the imaginary "old covenant age" ending in 70 AD. I have said many times that the old covenant ended and the new covenant was ushered in when Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple being torn in two signified that.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're not even recognizing that Matthew 13:39 and Revelation 14:14 are not speaking of the same thing. That's your problem. Revelation 14:14 is a reference to the rapture while Matthew 13:39 refers to the angels separating the righteous from the wicked at the judgment after all people are gathered before Christ's throne (Matthew 25:31-46).
How am I doing that? All you can ever do anymore is just make things up. Do you not understand the difference between being gathered and caught up to Christ and being separated from unbelievers with believers being moved to His right hand and unbelievers to His left hand when all are gathered before His throne?
You clearly have no clue what Revelation 14:14 is about, yet you are trying to say I'm helping pretribbers somehow? You need to think first before you post.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by this exactly? Are you talking about watching up in the sky for Him "to rapture us up from this earth"?
There you go. Finally, you have said something I agree with.
TribulationSigns
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Ahem.... let's take a look at one or two verses of what you quoted:
Matthew 24:21-22
- "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
- And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
Matthew 24:16
- "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: "
- "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"
- "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."
- "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."
God assures us that this [thlipsis] of Matthew 24:21 is speaking about the same time that the things listed in the previous verses were, by saying, then, or "at this time." No novice Greek can make these scriptures "not" say something that they do say.
This is tribulation that is the worst that the world has ever seen, or will see because Satan has gathered his army from the four quarters of the earth. And that if God didn't intervene to shorten the days, there would not be anyone left on earth to be saved. In other words, there would be no election. Look at the verses carefully to note it's not saying there wouldn't be anyone left on earth. God says that if not, there wouldn't be anyone left on earth "to be saved." Remember, God has said that he that shall endure to the end shall be saved. Thus, the days have to be shortened for the sake of the elect IN THE END. Not the sake for the Jews in 70AD over some falling stones so they can flee to the KOA campgrounds in the mountains as long as it was not during the cold winter months or on sabbath days. Absurd!! That wasnt what Christ talked about.
So if these days of these false prophets, deception, and great tribulation were not shortened, then no one would be saved. The Apostasy would so devastate (desolate) the Church that there wouldn't be any election left to be saved if it were allowed to continue. But for sake of the Elect, God assures us those days shall be shortened. How beautiful is God's Word when it is unadulterated by secular stories, ideas and theories. That is how consistent God's Word is when it is allowed to interpret itself.
The third and final verse tribulation or [thlipsis] occurs in Matthew 24 is in verse 29.
Matthew 24:29
- "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
And you've already admitted that this [thlipsis] in versre 29 occurs at the end of the world. If that is the case (and it is) then the tribulation preceding verse 29 is also at the end of the world, but the phrase "immediately after." Now we've just about covered every single verse in the whole chapter up to verse 29, and not one word anywhere from God about a multiple tribulation period. The reason is that this is man's self-serving rationalization in order not to receive what "IS" clearly written there.
There are no other verses in Matthew 24 which use the word tribulation or [thlipsis], and I am sorry, but your preterism-infused amillennial thinking that we are all theologically ignorant so that we cannot see this other alleged tribulation in this chapter, is clearly without any foundation in fact.
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Jesus looked up to heaven when he prayed. Watching for the Father to send Jesus to take us up from this earth, involves praying looking up to heaven as Jesus did, thanking the Father in advance, praising His holy name, for what He is going to do - redeem our bodies, and end our troubles in this life.
Also, pray with our heads bowed, humble before the Lord.
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TribulationSigns
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Luke 21:25–28
(25) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
(26) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
(27) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(28) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Let’s be absolutely clear: the signs in the sun, moon, and stars are not cosmic fireworks for the curious—they are spiritual indicators of Christ’s return. Christ gave us specific signs to watch for. And when we begin to see these things unfold—judgment within the Church, deception, false prophets, spiritual famine—we are to lift our heads in expectation. Not because we’re watching the literal skies for flaming meteors, but because we discern the times spiritually. Selah!
The majority, unfortunately, are still looking for literal cosmic disturbances on the day Christ returns. But that’s not what Christ told us to watch for. If you're reading Scripture with spiritual eyes, you’ll understand He was speaking in symbolic, prophetic language, not astronomical forecasting.
The entire Olivet Discourse uses symbolism to convey real spiritual events—wars, earthquakes, the abomination of desolation, false messiahs—all framed within a prophetic, symbolic system. If the sun turns to darkness and the moon to blood, and stars fall to the earth, are we to take this literally? Impossible. A single literal star many light years away colliding with earth would obliterate everything. Clearly, these are symbolic representations!
God’s Word is written in a practical, spiritually discernible way. He designed it so that those who seek understanding—by comparing scripture with scripture—can find it. Not by watching Fox News, National Geography, or Astronomy Magazine, etc.
Proverbs 25:2
“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.”
This is the approach I take. And through study, I see the falling stars as messengers of the Church falling—false prophets, deceivers, and those spiritually corrupt within the congregation.
Revelation 12:1 shows a woman clothed with the sun and crowned with twelve stars. This isn’t describing an actual woman floating in space, or even in literal heaven, wearing the sun. It’s a prophetic image of the congregation of God! Satan’s tail drawing a third of the stars? Not literal stars, but again, people—leaders, teachers, messengers—being swept away by deception.
Revelation 1:20 proves this principle:
“The seven stars ARE the messengers of the seven churches…”
The Bible defines its own symbols. Stars = messengers. Candlesticks = churches. No guesswork needed.
Romans 11:11 reminds us that Old Testament Israel stumbled and fell, which she did at the Cross, - - so can the New Testament Church today.
Hebrews 6:4–6 makes it crystal clear: those who once knew the truth can fall away—and when they do, they are the stars falling from heaven.
This symbolism has existed since Joseph’s dream in Genesis. It’s consistent. The problem is not the text—it’s man’s refusal to receive the truth plainly written.
Now, consider the Olivet Discourse in context: it is a direct prophecy about the New Testament Church—not Israel in 70AD — and her spiritual decline and judgment before the Second Coming.
Wars and rumors of wars? These are spiritual battles—conflict within the Church between the Elect and the deceived.
Famine? A spiritual famine—no hearing of God’s Word.
The shaking of mountains and islands? Symbolic of churches—large and small—being shaken under God's judgment.
False christs and false prophets? Already in many pulpits today, performing lying signs and wonders—not magic tricks, but seductive doctrines leading the congregation to spiritual destruction. That’s the mark they receive—they become owned by Satan and unable to repent (see Revelation 9).
Look around today: churches embracing politics, women preachers distorting order, approval of homosexual marriages, division, prosperity gospel, feel good gospel, and hatred between members —love growing cold. These are not coincidences. These are the signs!!
For example, when you see all this, don’t look up at the sky like the disciples did at the Ascension. Instead, lift your head spiritually—be awake, be sober, know that Christ is at the door. Just as with the fig tree, when the branches shoot forth in the springtime, you will mentally know summer is near. The signs are here.
We may not know the exact day or hour of Christ's coming, but we are commanded to recognize the season—the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. Hello?!
That’s all we need to see. And more importantly, to be spiritually prepared.
Selah.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Though I was never sure I also used to believe that Revelation 14:14 "must be" referring to Christ, but now you have ensured that I see it cannot be referring to Jesus Himself.
I hope I don't forget that comparison of Matthew 13:39 with Revelation 14:14.
Besides this, the ancient Greek royals never wore stephanos crowns to show their royal authority. They wore diadema crowns when showing their royal authority. A stephanos crown implies someone without royal authority wearing a crown of victory that was bestowed upon him.
I used to believe this possibly refers to Jesus' manhood in Revelation 14:14 but I was never sure, but what you say above about Matthew 13:39 and Revelation 14:14 is a 100% valid argument, IMO.
Possibly. But it could be an angel. Maybe something else in the Revelation tells us the nature of this one like a son of man.
Now that you have got me thinking about this I'm wondering if it possibly refers to Michael the archangel, whose name means "who is like God?" and who's involved in the end of days in Daniel 12:1-2, which is connected with the resurrection of the saints?
But now I'm speculating - but your comparison between Matthew 13:39 and Revelation 14:14 is not speculation - it's comparing scripture with scripture in order to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
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