The "watch rapture view"

[Zao is life]

You guys are LIARS. I am not a preterist. Unlike preterists, I don't have the imaginary "old covenant age" ending in 70 AD. I have said many times that the old covenant ended and the new covenant was ushered in when Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple being torn in two signified that.

In your imagination you have Jesus calling Jerusalem the holy city when telling His disciples that when they see armies gathering around Jerusalem, then those who are in Judea should flee - because you have that statement in Luke 21:20 connected to Jesus telling His disciples that when they see an abomination of desolation standing in the "holy" place (of a "holy" temple in Jerusalem), they should flee.

But Jesus did not say "When you see armies gathered around the holy city". He called it Jerusalem, and said nothing about the temple in it.

If Luke 21:20 and Matthew 24:15 are connected, then you cannot have Jesus calling the temple in Jerusalem "the holy place" in Matthew 24:15 if you do not also have Him calling Jerusalem "the holy city" in Luke 21:20, because it was the temple in Jerusalem that made that city holy in accordance with the Old Covenant.

But long before it was destroyed, Paul likened Jerusalem to Hagar and said it was in bondage with her children.

You are obsessed with what was holy under the OC in your interpretation of Matthew 24:15-22. @TribulationSigns explains it to you here

 

[Zao is life]

Look in the mirror, hypocrite. You are describing yourself. I tried to get along with you and you proved you have no interest in that, so I give up on that. You prefer the insults, so don't try to kid anyone as if you think otherwise.

Is that the same excuse you use for your insults and rudeness to almost everyone else who disagrees with your eschatology? Or do you have a different excuse for the others? LOL. Do you individualize your excuses for your rudeness, insults, insinuations and misrepresentations of the things all those who disagree with you believe, or do you have boxes of different sorts of excuses which you use for different groups?

So, I see that you disagree with your Premil buddy about Revelation 14:14. It's clearly referring to Christ, but he can't even see that.

No, I agree with him. Unlike you I see the validity in what he is saying, which is why I posted the difference in meaning between the different types of crown used in the Revelation, and why I said that IF Revelation 14:14 is referring to Jesus, it means that He is the only one in the Revelation seen to be wearing both types of crown. You obviously have reading comprehension issues.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ahem.... let's take a look at one or two verses of what you quoted:

Matthew 24:21-22

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
• And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The word, "then" [tote] or at that time, connects this verse 21 to the preceding verses, which in turn connect to preceding verses of 20-10 and 10 connects it to 5-9. There is no gap, it's ONE PERIOD. Look how the word "then" [tote] or at that time makes all these verses flow seamlessly together as at that time. For example:

Matthew 24:16

• "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: "

Matthew 24:15

• "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"

Matthew 24:10

• "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."

Matthew 24:9

• "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

Clearly, we see an unbroken connection of passages from verse 21 to 9 declaring that "at this time" all these things will happen. To attempt to look at this narrative as diverse eras from verse to verse is to dabble in Eschatological dementia!

God assures us that this [thlipsis] of Matthew 24:21 is speaking about the same time that the things listed in the previous verses were, by saying, then, or "at this time." No novice Greek can make these scriptures "not" say something that they do say.

This is tribulation that is the worst that the world has ever seen, or will see because Satan has gathered his army from the four quarters of the earth. And that if God didn't intervene to shorten the days, there would not be anyone left on earth to be saved. In other words, there would be no election. Look at the verses carefully to note it's not saying there wouldn't be anyone left on earth. God says that if not, there wouldn't be anyone left on earth "to be saved." Remember, God has said that he that shall endure to the end shall be saved. Thus, the days have to be shortened for the sake of the elect IN THE END. Not the sake for the Jews in 70AD over some falling stones so they can flee to the KOA campgrounds in the mountains as long as it was not during the cold winter months or on sabbath days. Absurd!! That wasnt what Christ talked about.

So if these days of these false prophets, deception, and great tribulation were not shortened, then no one would be saved. The Apostasy would so devastate (desolate) the Church that there wouldn't be any election left to be saved if it were allowed to continue. But for sake of the Elect, God assures us those days shall be shortened. How beautiful is God's Word when it is unadulterated by secular stories, ideas and theories. That is how consistent God's Word is when it is allowed to interpret itself.

The third and final verse tribulation or [thlipsis] occurs in Matthew 24 is in verse 29.

Matthew 24:29

• "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

So here again, God doesn't leave His Word up to Josephus to interpret it's time period like you do, He says immediately after the tribulation "of those days," which is a continuing theme. What days are in view? The very same days of tribulation that He has just been talking about from the start of the chapter. Thus no eschatological gymnastics to introduce another tribulation 2000 years before is necessary.

And you've already admitted that this [thlipsis] in versre 29 occurs at the end of the world. If that is the case (and it is) then the tribulation preceding verse 29 is also at the end of the world, but the phrase "immediately after." Now we've just about covered every single verse in the whole chapter up to verse 29, and not one word anywhere from God about a multiple tribulation period. The reason is that this is man's self-serving rationalization in order not to receive what "IS" clearly written there.

There are no other verses in Matthew 24 which use the word tribulation or [thlipsis], and I am sorry, but your preterism-infused amillennial thinking that we are all theologically ignorant so that we cannot see this other alleged tribulation in this chapter, is clearly without any foundation in fact.

Ahem. You speak nonsense. So many words to say nothing. To not acknowledge that Jesus talked at all about the destruction of the temple buildings in the Olivet Discourse despite being asked about the timing of that after telling the disciples the temple buildings would be destroyed is ludicrous. Luke 21:20-24 is clearly a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15-22 and it describes exactly what happened in 70 AD. But, I guess that is just a coincidence in your mind? You will never convince me that what you're saying is true because I will never accept the foolish claim that Jesus did not answer the disciples question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In your imagination you have Jesus calling Jerusalem the holy city when telling His disciples that when they see armies gathering around Jerusalem, then those who are in Judea should flee - because you have that statement in Luke 21:20 connected to Jesus telling His disciples that when they see an abomination of desolation standing in the "holy" place (of a "holy" temple in Jerusalem), they should flee.

But Jesus did not say "When you see armies gathered around the holy city". He called it Jerusalem, and said nothing about the temple in it.

LOL. This is an incredibly weak argument. Luke was paraphrasing what Jesus said for his Gentile audience. Matthew and Mark recorded what Jesus actually said. So, there is no requirement that it should say "the holy city" instead of Jerusalem. You go out of your way to dream up nonsense like this instead of accepting that Jesus was asked about when the temple buildings would be destroyed (after telling the disciples they would be destroyed) and He answered that question.

If Luke 21:20 and Matthew 24:15 are connected, then you cannot have Jesus calling the temple in Jerusalem "the holy place" in Matthew 24:15 if you do not also have Him calling Jerusalem "the holy city" in Luke 21:20, because it was the temple in Jerusalem that made that city holy in accordance with the Old Covenant.

Nice man-made rule you came up with here. I don't need to go by your useless man-made rules.

But long before it was destroyed, Paul likened Jerusalem to Hagar and said it was in bondage with her children.

You are obsessed with what was holy under the OC in your interpretation of Matthew 24:15-22. @TribulationSigns explains it to you here

I don't take TribSigns any more seriously than I take you, so I couldn't care less what he says about this. He's the guy who doesn't acknowledge that Satan is an actual living spirit being. But, you want to trust anything he has to say? The guy spiritualizes almost the entire Bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Is that the same excuse you use for your insults and rudeness to almost everyone else who disagrees with your eschatology? Or do you have a different excuse for the others? LOL. Do you individualize your excuses for your rudeness, insults, insinuations and misrepresentations of the things all those who disagree with you believe, or do you have boxes of different sorts of excuses which you use for different groups?

Did you miss where I told you to look in the mirror, hypocrite? I have no reason to listen to you about this when you do the exact same things you are complaining about on a regular basis.

No, I agree with him. Unlike you I see the validity in what he is saying, which is why I posted the difference in meaning between the different types of crown used in the Revelation, and why I said that IF Revelation 14:14 is referring to Jesus, it means that He is the only one in the Revelation seen to be wearing both types of crown. You obviously have reading comprehension issues.

LOL. Tell me what I'm not comprehending about what you said here:

In the Revelation everything that's associated with the color white is pure:

Jesus' head and hair appear white like wool (Rev 1:14).
A white stone with a saint's name written on it (Rev 2:17).
The white raiment of the saints (Rev.3:5 & 18; 6:11; 7:9, 13 & 14).
The white clothing of the 24 elders (Rev 4:4).
The white clothing of angels (Rev 15:6).
The white raiment of the bride of Christ (Rev 19:8).
The Great White Throne (Rev 20:11).
Christ seated on a white cloud (Rev 14:14).

Should I assume you didn't actually mean anything you said here including the last line?

 

[Davy]

Watch for Jesus coming for the rapture.

If that's all you are watching for, then you will be way too late to the party. Party is OVER when the rapture happens. It will be too late to retract any falling away to the false-Messiah that comes first by just waiting for the rapture.

What Jesus pointed for us, His Church, to be watching, should be so obvious that He really had no need to spell it out for the simple, although He still did.

It is the SIGNS of the end leading up to His coming that He gave us to WATCH.

That is specifically... what His Olivet discourse is about, the SIGNS He gave. And those SIGNS are the SEALS of Revelation 6.

So are you SEALED in prep for the end? If you don't know those SIGNS and are not watching for them, then it shows YOU ARE NOT SEALED.