ARE BELIEVERS BORN AGAIN WHILE ON EARTH?

[PS95]

This post is for all JWS here @Keiw @TheHC @ElieG12 @Aunty Jane

**Aunty Jane said--The fact that you believe that being “born again” is something that takes place “on earth”, tells me that you have no idea what it is, or what it means.
It isn’t some mystical personal experience…it is a supernatural transformation that happens upon resurrection…..necessary because mortal human beings cannot enter heaven….they have to be transformed into spirit beings to inhabit a spiritual realm…for some this is an awakening to new life in a new body (those who were “sleeping”)…..for others who are alive at Jesus manifestation, it will be an instantaneous ‘changing’ “in the twinkling of an eye”…..”the dead will be raised imperishable”…. Paul wrote….1 Cor 15:50

See that? Paul’s words….and apparently he is speaking to you personally….LOL

Aunty Jane,
That is very mistaken. A believer is born again on earth. Do not marvel at this! Allow me to provide the verses that will show you ~~ Take your time and go over them.

1 John 5:1- Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.​

John 1:12-13-But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Peter 1:3 -Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Titus 3:5- He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5:18- We know that no one who has been born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

John 3:4-8, 10-12 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
“Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

2 Cor 5:17- Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Eph 2:4-5- But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

1 Cor 6:11 -Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Ro 8:15-16- For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,


There are many more. There is no such thing as a Christian who isn't born again. The title, Born Again Christian is redundant. It's not a special thing just for the 144K as you have been taught. It is essential to being a new creation- otherwise we are simply just carnal flesh. We can not please God in our flesh. It is by His spirit that He saves us. It is the only way.

I know that JWs don't do this but it is what is needed by all--

Step one-- is to truly accept the forgiveness of your sins that only Jesus provides by paying for your personal sins at Calvary.
There is no other way. There is no such thing as paying your own sin debt off by dying physically. That is not forgiveness- it is not a debt that you can pay to become sinless. Death of sinners is getting what is deserved.- the pay that you receive.
ONLY Jesus' sinless death atones for all of our sins but you must believe that.
The gift is not like that- no one deserves this gift- it is undeserved kindness aka grace.
It is given, but you must humble yourself enough to accept God's gift. That is believing God.
I know it is hard after what you have been taught!! But this is THE TRUTH. Test it with scripture and see.

Luke 11:13--“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

If you would like a very long list of scriptures that teach that Jesus' death paid for your personal sins I am happy to provide it for you. Just say the word.





**Original post by Aunt Jane was from here-

Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

I look forward to a GRAND reunion with them. Your religion........that is based on your Gospel of Universalism.......denies that you have to be born again on earth.... as It omits this.. completely. You might be interested to know that Aunte Jane's JW cult, also omits being born again, on...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[PS95]

Bumping for JWs- @Keiw @Aunty Jane @TheHC @ElieG12

 

[Keiw]

This post is for all JWS here @Keiw @TheHC @ElieG12 @Aunty Jane


Aunty Jane,
That is very mistaken. A believer is born again on earth. Do not marvel at this! Allow me to provide the verses that will show you ~~ Take your time and go over them.

1 John 5:1- Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.​

John 1:12-13-But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Peter 1:3 -Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Titus 3:5- He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5:18- We know that no one who has been born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

John 3:4-8, 10-12 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
“Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

2 Cor 5:17- Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Eph 2:4-5- But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

1 Cor 6:11 -Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Ro 8:15-16- For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,


There are many more. There is no such thing as a Christian who isn't born again. The title, Born Again Christian is redundant. It's not a special thing just for the 144K as you have been taught. It is essential to being a new creation- otherwise we are simply just carnal flesh. We can not please God in our flesh. It is by His spirit that He saves us. It is the only way.

I know that JWs don't do this but it is what is needed by all--

Step one-- is to truly accept the forgiveness of your sins that only Jesus provides by paying for your personal sins at Calvary.
There is no other way. There is no such thing as paying your own sin debt off by dying physically. That is not forgiveness- it is not a debt that you can pay to become sinless. Death of sinners is getting what is deserved.- the pay that you receive.
ONLY Jesus' sinless death atones for all of our sins but you must believe that.
The gift is not like that- no one deserves this gift- it is undeserved kindness aka grace.
It is given, but you must humble yourself enough to accept God's gift. That is believing God.
I know it is hard after what you have been taught!! But this is THE TRUTH. Test it with scripture and see.

Luke 11:13--“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

If you would like a very long list of scriptures that teach that Jesus' death paid for your personal sins I am happy to provide it for you. Just say the word.





**Original post by Aunt Jane was from here-

Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

I look forward to a GRAND reunion with them. Your religion........that is based on your Gospel of Universalism.......denies that you have to be born again on earth.... as It omits this.. completely. You might be interested to know that Aunte Jane's JW cult, also omits being born again, on...

www.christianityboard.com

If Jesus death paid for our sins as you think, then why does each individual die and pay their own wages of sin? Why does one have to repent and turn around to get sins blotted out if Jesus paid for them as you believe?( Acts 3:19)

 

[PS95]

If Jesus death paid for our sins as you think, then why does each individual die and pay their own wages of sin? Why does one have to repent and turn around to get sins blotted out if Jesus paid for them as you believe?( Acts 3:19)

Hi Keiw,
This thread is about JW teaching that being born again is not something that happens on earth.
Have you read the scriptures I posted?
It's a good thing and a godly thing to test all that you are taught with the scriptures.
This is another very clear false teaching of @Aunty Jane. it's also a very dangerous thing to have this wrong.
You really need to decide if you trust in man or the scriptures. Would you like to discuss this? It's very important.
I do not recall that from jws. Is this new light or has Jane lost her marbles? Seems radical even for them. But then again so is the 144k born again teaching considering that the "great crowd" every tribe tongue and nation in Rev 5 said to be priests of God epi the earth. Epi is upon not over, especially considering the role of the now priesthood of believers is so that we may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.

I will reply to the sidetrack question but the thread will not be sidetracked here further if you dont mind.
Acts 3:19 why does that confuse you? repenting of sins is taught all throughout the NT. Initially, we don't clean up all of our sins then go to Christ for forgiveness. NO. Jws will have a person repent by stopping birthday cakes etc etc agreeing to WTower rules and never going to Christ for forgiveness of their sins. Righteousness in the flesh is no righteousness at all. You must be spirit led and born again.

Repentance begins in the heart and is a gift of kindness from God that begins in the heart when we hear the gospel preached. We hear the gospel about the love of Christ and are moved in the HEART about our sins and our own need for forgiveness, and in the heart one is penitent and accepts the grace of God in Christ at Calvary.
Forgiveness isn't a license to continue to sin! The Holy Spirit convict us of sin and helps us to live an obedient life. We can not do it alone. It is a work of God in us through the spirit. This is called sanctification.
I can list for you about 30 verses that show us that Jesus died for our personal sins to be forgiven.- If your sins are not forgiven in Christ then shouldn't you be sacrificing animals?????
Ro 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
2 Tim 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life
Luke 24 -And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem


I just finished addressing your other question over here--

Ultimately, it's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong... (?)

Believe means more than that single word--Matt 7:21-23--these believe.; The laodecians( ones called christian) who are lukewarm in Revelation believe, but Jesus will vomit them out it says in revelation. So believing means more than that single word--Obeying is a major part of those who believe...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Keiw]

Hi Keiw,
This thread is about JW teaching that being born again is not something that happens on earth.
Have you read the scriptures I posted?
It's a good thing and a godly thing to test all that you are taught with the scriptures.
This is another very clear false teaching of the watchtower- it's also a very dangerous thing to have this wrong.
You really need to decide if you trust in man or the scriptures. Would you like to discuss this? It's very important.

I will reply to the sidetrack question but the thread will not be sidetracked here further if you dont mind.
Acts 3:19 why does that confuse you? repenting of sins is taught all throughout the NT. Initially, we don't clean up all of our sins then go to Christ for forgiveness. NO. Jws will have a person repent by stopping birthdays etc etc agreeing to WTower rules and never going to Christ for forgiveness of their sins. Righteousness in the flesh is no righteousness at all. You must be spirit led and born again.

Repentance begins in the heart and is a gift of kindness from God that begins in the heart when we hear the gospel preached. We hear the gospel about the love of Christ and are moved in the HEART about our sins and our own need for forgiveness, and in the heart one is penitent and accepts the grace of God in Christ at Calvary.
Forgiveness isn't a license to continue to sin! The Holy Spirit convict us of sin and helps us to live an obedient life. We can not do it alone. It is a work of God in us through the spirit. This is called sanctification.
I can list for you about 30 verses that show us that Jesus died for our personal sins to be forgiven.- If your sins are not forgiven in Christ then shouldn't you be sacrificing animals?
Ro 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
2 Tim 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life
Luke 24 -And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem


I just finished addressing your other question over here--

Ultimately, it's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong... (?)

Believe means more than that single word--Matt 7:21-23--these believe.; The laodecians( ones called christian) who are lukewarm in Revelation believe, but Jesus will vomit them out it says in revelation. So believing means more than that single word--Obeying is a major part of those who believe...

www.christianityboard.com

Yes repentance gets sin blotted out( Acts 3:19) and turn around= stop doing the sin.

 

[PS95]

Yes repentance gets sin blotted out( Acts 3:19) and turn around= stop doing the sin.

I asked you not to keep diverting. WRONG THREAD. Stop diverting it. I have addressed this many times now. ARE believers born again while on EARTH?

 

[Davy]

ARE believers born again while on EARTH?

Your question in your Thread Title, and what you ask above, IS A CONTRADICTION.

In your Title you ask if being born again is an 'earthy thing'.

But above, you ask if believers are born again 'while on EARTH', which is a different question.


1. Being 'born again' per Jesus in John 3 is a NOT AN EARTHY THING. That question ain't about location, it is instead pointing to a fleshy event, which being 'born again' is NOT A FLESH EVENT. Being 'born again' in the Greek actually means 'born from above', which points to ones spirit inside their flesh being born from above by The Spirit. Jesus made the distinction between that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. He made clear the dividing line of that.

2. But your question are believers born again while on earth, yes, of course. Hearing and believing The Gospel, and being baptized in Christ happens ON THE EARTH. And that is how The Spirit is imparted to the new believer, either at hearing The Gospel, or at hearing The Gospel and being baptized.

 

[PS95]

Your question in your Thread Title, and what you ask above, IS A CONTRADICTION.

In your Title you ask if being born again is an 'earthy thing'.

But above, you ask if believers are born again 'while on EARTH', which is a different question.


1. Being 'born again' per Jesus in John 3 is a NOT AN EARTHY THING. That question ain't about location, it is instead pointing to a fleshy event, which being 'born again' is NOT A FLESH EVENT. Being 'born again' in the Greek actually means 'born from above', which points to ones spirit inside their flesh being born from above by The Spirit. Jesus made the distinction between that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. He made clear the dividing line of that.

2. But your question are believers born again while on earth, yes, of course. Hearing and believing The Gospel, and being baptized in Christ happens ON THE EARTH. And that is how The Spirit is imparted to the new believer, either at hearing The Gospel, or at hearing The Gospel and being baptized.

I understand why you have a problem with the title. If you read what Aunty Jane said which is what prompted my thread it may make more sense. Please see my OP.

I edited the title. ( for your sake :)) Either way Jws know what I meant since they deny born again as taking place on earth. Jane said it is "a supernatural transformation that happens upon resurrection"

**Aunty Jane said--The fact that you believe that being “born again” is something that takes place “on earth”, tells me that you have no idea what it is, or what it means.

 

[Davy]

I understand why you have a problem with the title.

Who said I... was the one with a problem with your Thread Title? It is YOU bro that has the problem, because you obviously cannot decide exactly what question it was that you wanted to ask! That's why your question in your Thread Title contradicts your question in your original post.

 

[PS95]

Who said I... was the one with a problem with your Thread Title? It is YOU bro that has the problem, because you obviously cannot decide exactly what question it was that you wanted to ask! That's why your question in your Thread Title contradicts your question in your original post.

You seem angry. No clue as to why. I changed the title for you. An event is a thing. That thing happens on the earth to believers. Is it and earthy EVENT is all that was meant by earthly THING. Now, please let's end this nonsense.
Jesus said- Matt 3
"If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?"

JWS understood my meaning. That is what matters to me.

I would really appreciate your concern for their souls and help them instead of trying to argue with me over words.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You mean any time you feel rebuked, you think it means anger??

Did your parents beat you a lot or something when they corrected you as a child?



Let's not wrongly assume your idea was following what Jesus said, because it doesn't.

All I was doing was being honest about the difference between your two questions that contradicted each other. Then I explained... what the actual 'born again' event is about according to John 3. But since you appear to wear your feelings on your sleeve, I don't guess you'll learn anything from this.

Stop being a jerk. Everyone but you knows what she meant, so your input is not helpful and not wanted. Go away. She is doing a great service by showing JWs the truth and you just let Satan use you to try to distract from the truth. Support the cause or get lost.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If Jesus death paid for our sins as you think, then why does each individual die and pay their own wages of sin?

That is not true that each individual pays their own wages of sin when they die. I assume you get that from Romans 6:7? You are misinterpreting that verse. That verse doesn't have anything to do with physical death. Look at the context.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Look at verse 2. Paul said "we are those who have died to sin" so that we don't live in it any longer like before we put our faith in Christ and were saved. The context of what Paul is talking about in this passage is dying to sin and no longer letting sin control and dictate our lives and instead following Christ. He's not talking about physically dying. He's talking about "our old self" when we were slaves to sin" being crucified with Him in a spiritual sense so that "we should no longer be slaves to sin" (Rom 6:6).

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in someone we become dead to sin in the sense that our sins are no longer counted against us and we then live a new life with Christ as our Lord and Savior. So, what verse 7 is saying is that anyone who has died to sin and has had their "old self" crucified spiritually, that was formerly a slave to sin by being saved and having a new life in Christ, has been set free from sin. It doesn't mean we no longer sin, but that the wages of sin, which is eternal death (the second death - Rev 20:15) in contrast to the gift of God, which is eternal life (Romans 6:23), are paid for by the blood of Christ and our sins are no longer counted against us.

Why does one have to repent and turn around to get sins blotted out if Jesus paid for them as you believe?( Acts 3:19)

Jesus paid the price for the sins of all people to give all people the opportunity to be saved and have eternal life so that no one would have to pay anything for their own sins and instead would need to repent (change their mind about) their sins and acknowledge that only the blood of Christ can atone for them rather than atoning for their own sins.

 

[PS95]

That is not true that each individual pays their own wages of sin when they die. I assume you get that from Romans 6:7? You are misinterpreting that verse. That verse doesn't have anything to do with physical death. Look at the context.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Look at verse 2. Paul said "we are those who have died to sin" so that we don't live in it any longer like before we put our faith in Christ and were saved. The context of what Paul is talking about in this passage is dying to sin and no longer letting sin control and dictate our lives and instead following Christ. He's not talking about physically dying. He's talking about "our old self" when we were slaves to sin" being crucified with Him in a spiritual sense so that "we should no longer be slaves to sin" (Rom 6:6).

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in someone we become dead to sin in the sense that our sins are no longer counted against us and we then live a new life with Christ as our Lord and Savior. So, what verse 7 is saying is that anyone who has died to sin and has had their "old self" crucified spiritually, that was formerly a slave to sin by being saved and having a new life in Christ, has been set free from sin. It doesn't mean we no longer sin, but that the wages of sin, which is eternal death (the second death - Rev 20:15) in contrast to the gift of God, which is eternal life (Romans 6:23), are paid for by the blood of Christ and our sins are no longer counted against us.


Jesus paid the price for the sins of all people to give all people the opportunity to be saved and have eternal life so that no one would have to pay anything for their own sins and instead would need to repent (change their mind about) their sins and acknowledge that only the blood of Christ can atone for them rather than atoning for their own sins.

Amen! Below are some corresponding passages to Ro 6: Also, take note that Ro 6:7 is 1/7 of one sentence! It begins in verse 5. Making an entire doctrine out or 1/7 of one sentence is exactly what they have done. Nowhere does the bible teach that we can pay for our own sins by physical death and be auto- resurrected. It denies the atoning work of Christ for forgiveness of our sins! Without embracing Christ for forgiveness of our sins there no life but is eternal death.

Colossians 2:12
And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:8
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Romans 6:11
So you too, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

2 Timothy 2:11
This is a trustworthy saying: If we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

Ephesians 2:5-6
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! / And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. / And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

Philippians 3:10-11
I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, / and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Colossians 3:1
Therefore, since you have been raised with Christ, strive for the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Ephesians 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Colossians 3:9-10
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, / and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.


Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.


@Keiw @Aunty Jane @TheHC @ElieG12 @theJW

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amen! Below are some corresponding passages to Ro 6: Also, take note that Ro 6:7 is 1/7 of one sentence! It begins in verse 5. Making an entire doctrine out or 1/7 of one sentence is exactly what they have done. Nowhere does the bible teach that we can pay for our own sins by physical death and be auto- resurrected. It denies the atoning work of Christ for forgiveness of our sins! Without embracing Christ for forgiveness of our sins there no life but is eternal death.

Colossians 2:12
And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:8
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Romans 6:11
So you too, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

2 Timothy 2:11
This is a trustworthy saying: If we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

Ephesians 2:5-6
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! / And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. / And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

Philippians 3:10-11
I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, / and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Colossians 3:1
Therefore, since you have been raised with Christ, strive for the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Ephesians 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Colossians 3:9-10
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, / and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.


Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.


@Keiw @Aunty Jane @TheHC @ElieG12 @theJW

The context of Romans 6:7 is very clear when you look at the surrounding verses along with all of these other verses you showed which talk about how we die to our sin and put our old self behind us when we are born again and saved and begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ during this lifetime at which point we are no longer slaves to sin because of Him and the Holy Spirit helping us to "put on the new self" that wants to obey God rather than our sinful nature. JWs need to look at these scriptures for themselves to see what they are actually saying instead of relying on others to teach them what the Bible says.

 

[PS95]

The context of Romans 6:7 is very clear when you look at the surrounding verses along with all of these other verses you showed which talk about how we die to our sin and put our old self behind us when we are born again and saved and begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ during this lifetime at which point we are no longer slaves to sin because of Him and the Holy Spirit helping us to "put on the new self" that wants to obey God rather than our sinful nature. JWs need to look at these scriptures for themselves to see what they are actually saying instead of relying on others to teach them what the Bible says.

I absolutely agree. JWs are taught to marvel at being born again as in it is only for their select group. There is no grounds for denying them new birth. None. They base it one a couple of verses taken out of context much like Ro 6 is. This Ro 6 teaching is a big one to them because it is the basis for their faulty eschatological view which is completely fictionally with no biblical basis.
The crux of the problem is precisely as you mentioned- please put down the Watchtower books and magazines- pick up your bible solely and pray, pray, pray, JWs! I know you are told never to do that, but you should trust God first and not man.

This is not said to make light of you or to ever harm you , but it is urged only out of love in Christ and good will. Trust God!!
There is no such thing as a Christian who is not born again. Trust God!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I absolutely agree. JWs are taught to marvel at being born again as in it is only for their select group. There is no grounds for denying them new birth. None. They base it one a couple of verses taken out of context much like Ro 6 is. This Ro 6 teaching is a big one to them because it is the basis for their faulty eschatological view which is completely fictionally with no biblical basis.
The crux of the problem is precisely as you mentioned- please put down the Watchtower books and magazines- pick up your bible solely and pray, pray, pray, JWs! I know you are told never to do that, but you should trust God first and not man.

This is not said to make light of you or to ever harm you , but it is urged only out of love in Christ and good will. Trust God!!
There is no such thing as a Christian who is not born again. Trust God!

Amen!

Let me put it this way. To think that Romans 6:7 is talking about physical death is like thinking that Romans 6:2 is talking about physical death, which it clearly is not.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

What is the context in this passage? Just look at verses 2, 4 and 6 before reading verse 7. In verse 2, Paul says "we are those who HAVE DIED to sin and don't live in it any longer". He's clearly talking about people who are ALIVE and no longer living in sin. That's undeniable. So, what does that mean? Just keep reading from there. It means for "our old self" to be "crucified with him" so "that we should no longer be slaves to sin". Having a personal relationship with Jesus spiritually means we are His servants rather than being slaves to sin any longer. It doesn't mean we never sin, but it means we desire to serve Jesus rather than sinning against Him like we did before.

So, since Christians "are those who have died to sin" while crucifying our old self and putting on the new self in Christ, anyone who has died to sin has been set free from sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin. Scripture says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4:13). We can overcome sin with Christ's help. Before putting our faith in Christ and having a relationship with Him, we cannot overcome sin. So, becoming dead to sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin and instead submitting ourselves to Christ, we are then set free from sin and the wages of sin which is eternal death (in contrast to God's gift of eternal life - Romans 6:23).