Is Hell a place of torment?

[Webers_Home]

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I discovered an unfamiliar Christian forum recently that in all respects
seemed to have excellent mission-field potential. But it didn't pan out
because of its Orwellian management practices. In other words: the
administrators were thought police who summarily removed posts that
failed to support their own personal system of beliefs. I could've stayed
on but cancel cultures really get on my nerves so I resigned: politely
_

 

[Keiw]

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

Those not accepting all of what the Lord says in His Word are easily deceived by satan's chicanery and subterfuge

It was symbolism Jesus was speaking. He was clear about those who walk the broad and spacious path= to destruction.
Gods justice scales= perfect balance=an eye for an eye-- There is no balance in eternal suffering being literal, it looks like this= For 70-100 years of an unrepented sinful life-- God could not punish one with trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering, that = an eye for a gazillion eyes-thus not Gods true justice scales. Plus God is love, merciful, kind, only a demented sadist could create a literal eternal suffering.
The symbolism = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each new day, miss each day of Gods love, it never ends, likened to be an eternal suffering.
The lake of fire= the second death= eternal destruction.

 

[Webers_Home]

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@ Keiw

Re: The lake of fire= the second death= eternal destruction.

I believed in eternal conscious suffering for the better part of my 81+ years
but lately have begun wondering if I haven't been mistaken. For example:

Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first
appearance is at Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged
creatures; again at Gen 1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies,
and wild beasts; and again in Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again
at Gen 9:10 to classify all the fauna aboard Noah's ark.

* God has a soul too. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer
32:41, Zech 11:8)

Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self
awareness, and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g.
Gen 34:3, and to the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4. All in all, soul is
just another way of referring to that part of conscious life that we call "self"

Well; the thing is: the human body can be terminated by most any means,
but the soul can only be terminated by the hand of God.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.

It seems clear to me that the rich man's soul was intact and fully functioning
in Luke 16:19-31 so I think we can be reasonably confident he was not yet
in the hell spoken of by Matt 10:28. In point of fact the hell set up for
destroying souls is translated from an entirely different Greek word than the
rich man's hell.

To my knowledge there are only two varieties of hell listed in the Bible-- the
one is a furnace and the other a liquid; so then, I think we can be reasonably
confident that the hell set up for destroying souls is the lake of fire depicted
by Rev 20:11-15.

The soul is what lends folks their consciousness, their self awareness, and
their individuality. So: if people's souls undergo destruction in the lake of
fire, then I think it just might be that the folks who come out on the wrong
side of Rev 20:11-15 will end up as vegetables which, though not an ideal
existence, is certainly better than bobbing around out there in the lake with
perpetual conscious suffering.
_

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It was symbolism Jesus was speaking. He was clear about those who walk the broad and spacious path= to destruction.
Gods justice scales= perfect balance=an eye for an eye-- There is no balance in eternal suffering being literal, it looks like this= For 70-100 years of an unrepented sinful life-- God could not punish one with trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering, that = an eye for a gazillion eyes-thus not Gods true justice scales. Plus God is love, merciful, kind, only a demented sadist could create a literal eternal suffering.
The symbolism = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each new day, miss each day of Gods love, it never ends, likened to be an eternal suffering.
The lake of fire= the second death= eternal destruction.

Jesus said hell was real and was a place of eternal torment.

Feel free to claim Jesus is a liar all you want and walk in the darkened wisdom of man

It's no problem for me at'all since I won't be in hell

 

[Webers_Home]

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● Jude 14-15 . . And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of
these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to
execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among
them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of
all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

It's nice to know that folks will be given a fair trial instead of just thrown to
the lions, so to speak, without explanation.

● Rev 20:11-13 . . And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found
no place for them.

. . And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books
were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and
the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and
death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were
judged every man according to their works.
_

 

[Taken]

Is Hell a place of torment?

Yes.

Any place that Which is ABSENT of Gods Peace IS Subject to experiencing Torments…

* Even withIN human men Whose carnal Mind And spirit’s are at odds/ Conflicts/ rather than IN harmony and peace.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Webers_Home]

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Re: Is Hell a place of torment?

Possibly in more ways than one. For example my eldest brother served as a
Catholic priest 53+ years before passing away as a Friar back in 2018; which
has me a mite concerned about his current situation because there are no
guarantees in the Catholic religion, not even for the hierarchy. If anything
my brother is in more danger of ending up on the wrong side of things than
rank and file pew warmers because according to Luke 12:47-48 and Jas 3:1,
his responsibility is greater.

Anyway: I would not want to be him because if perchance my brother ended
up on the wrong side of things in the afterlife, he will surely be mocked
cruelly and without pity by some of the unkind folks imprisoned in the
netherworld. I can just hear their giggling and their taunts:

Hey Christian! How's about sharing the gospel with us ay? Tell us about the
love of God and how that's working for ya. Awwwww-Haw-Haw-Haw
Hawwww!

I'd rather end up in perdition as a Bernie Madoff than a failed priest because
ol' ponzi schemer Bernie is sure to be given far more respect down there
than a man of the cloth.
_

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

my eldest brother served as a
Catholic priest 53+ years before passing away as a Friar

So he took care of all the fried food at the catholic church he went to?

 

[Keiw]

Jesus said hell was real and was a place of eternal torment.

Feel free to claim Jesus is a liar all you want and walk in the darkened wisdom of man

It's no problem for me at'all since I won't be in hell

Men who do not know God teach what you said. I shared the undeniable facts with you. Jesus said those walking the broad and spacious path will be destroyed= not given eternal life to suffer. It was symbolism.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Here's a question that not even God can answer.

● Heb 2:1-3 . .We must pay much closer attention to what we have heard,
lest we drift away from it. For if the word spoken through angels proved
unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just
recompense, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

The Greek word translated "neglect" basically means to ignore, disregard,
set aside, to make light of, viz: assign a low priority.

I watched an interesting lecture on YouTube recently during which the
speaker asked, in so many words: What do a great number of folks in Hell
have in common other than their circumstances? The answer given was
stupidity, and I think I have to agree.

Jesus told a parable about some folks who were adequately catechized but
let day to day concerns distract them from taking action on the information
they were given. In other words they procrastinated; probably intending to
getting around some day to thinking about their afterlife prospects.

He told another parable wherein a number of folks invited to a wedding
found a variety of excuses not to attend. The host was wroth and banned
the original guests so that even if they changed their minds about attending,
they would not be allowed.

Well; I think the Bible is telling us that Heaven has little patience with things
like neglect, indifference, and procrastination. It says, in so many words: If
you hear the message, don't delay to respond because now is your time,
today is your opportunity for salvation.

The message, it its basic form, is very simple.

● Heb 2:9 . .We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for
the suffering of death, that he by the grace of God should taste death for
every man.

● Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and The Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The only thing those dummies in Hell had to do to avoid that awful place was
RSVP God with a simple prayer in their own words that goes like this:

"Lord, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's
death."

Those sixteen words would've made a significant difference in their afterlife
situation but no, they let the opportunity to reconcile with God slip thru their
fingers.

● Heb 12:25-26 . . See to it that you do not refuse Him who speaks. If they
did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how
much less will we, if we turn away from Him who warns us from heaven?
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[Webers_Home]

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One of the men with whom I worked in a boatyard back in the decade of the
1970s said he wouldn't mind Hell all that much because he'll have lots of
friends there, but I can't help but wonder if he'll be able to find any of them
because Jesus said the majority has been ending up down there.

Well, souls have been filtering into perdition not only the past 2,000 years
since Christ, but also since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even
before the Flood and the Tower of Babel. I won't speculate how many years
have gone by since Cain and Abel, but I've heard it said it's at the very least
something like 6,000 years. If the majority really has been going there like
Jesus said: then sixty centuries would amount to a very large number of
souls to search for that man's friends.
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[Webers_Home]

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I can't help but envy God. He's above it all; safe and secure and never in
any danger of war, natural disasters, disease, economic calamities, old age,
and most especially perdition.

But us? We're like insects, no, worse than that, we're as helpless, as fragile,
and as vulnerable as vegetation.

● Isa 40:6-8 . . All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers
of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall, because the breath of The
Lord blows on them. Surely the people are grass. The grass withers and the
flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.
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[Webers_Home]

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● Isa 66:23-24 . . And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to
another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship
before me, saith The Lord; and they shall go forth, and look upon the
carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm
shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an
abhorring unto all flesh.

That passage is often quoted as a proof text that folks destined for the
ultimate retribution in the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15) will exist there in
conscious suffering. However, no suffering of any kind is mentioned in
Isa 66:23-24 nor is there any mentioned with it in Mark 9:43-48.
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[talons]

However, no suffering of any kind is mentioned in
Isa 66:23-24 nor is there any mentioned with it in Mark 9:43-48.

I must say you are quite the party animal if you think a good time is a worm that does not die and unquenchable fire .
Three time Jesus tells us this . Could it be he was making a point .

Mark 9:46 Context​

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Well; according to Isa 66:23-24 and Rev 20:11-15, the people depicted in
Mark's scene are not alive. In point of fact they are quite deceased, and the
fire-proof worms are dining upon their remains, i.e. their corpse.

I suspect that many of us have been letting our imaginations run away with
us when we read those passages by permitting our minds to subconsciously
edit suffering into texts where none is mentioned.

FAQ: What will the worms use for food after they've completely consumed
the dead people's corpse?

REPLY: There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs
were miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit
of flour and oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good
many days during a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and
left her deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell
enough to pay off her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

But even so, the scenes depicted by Mark and Isaiah tell of worms with
immortality so even if they were to exhaust their supply of human remains,
they'd survive.
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[talons]

I suspect that many of us have been letting our imaginations run away with
us when we read those passages by permitting our minds to subconsciously
edit suffering into texts where none is mentioned.
_

6The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me

Could sorrows be suffering ?

14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Does not sound like a pleasant destination .

3The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Sorrows and pain and trouble , strong case for suffering here I believe .

And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Does anyone doubt Jonah was suffering .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I shared the undeniable facts with you.

Actually you shared scripture twisting that was provided by the devil and his merry little band of lying demons.

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

It was symbolism.

That's one of satan's favorite lines!

 

[Webers_Home]

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I see no mention of suffering in either Isa 66:23-24, Mark 9:43-48,
nor Rev 20:11-15.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

I see no mention of suffering in either Isa 66:23-24, Mark 9:43-48, nor Rev 20:11-15.

The Catholic Church has yet to produce a passage from the Bible that
explicitly talks of a purgatory. Instead, the Church uses passages that allude
to the existence of a purgatory.

Now, an allusion isn't the same as an illusion, nor the same as a delusion.
An allusion is an arrangement of words that convey an idea or a concept
indirectly.

The thing is: Isa 66:23-24, Mark 9:43-48, and Rev 20:11-15 give us the
impression that suffering is a distinct possibility, however the text of the
passages themselves don't mention it, i.e. they aren't explicit.
_

 

[talons]

The thing is: Isa 66:23-24, Mark 9:43-48, and Rev 20:11-15 give us the
impression that suffering is a distinct possibility,

I noticed that .