EATING AND DRINKING IN THE KINGDOM

[Scott Downey]

What opinions does anyone have on v13 regarding food and stomach being destroyed?
Paul is talking of those who will inherit the kingdom of God.

v13, 'Them' can be assumed to be these who are of the works of the flesh, they will be destroyed
Stomachs eat earthly foods, foods are for earthly stomachs. Since we shall all be changed (mortality will put on immortality), seems to imply foods and stomachs will be no more, as in destroyed too.

It implies that this world of the flesh will be destroyed.

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not [e]helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of [f]any.

13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

 

[Scott Downey]

Not all Christians believe the way you do. The thing is: according to the
principles discussed in the 14th of Romans: if you sincerely believe alcohol is
wrong for Christians, then for you it is definitely wrong, but you mustn't
condemn others who feel that alcohol, in moderation, is alright for
Christians.
_

Very weak alcohol was a disinfectant for water borne illnesses which easily can be deadly.
Drinking plain water has been a serious health risk especially bad for the very young causing diarrhea, vomiting, dehydration, food poisoning, sickness leading to death, especially so back then with no sanitation.

What they drank if not drawn from a clean well would have a small amount of fermentation, weak beers, wines, etc... and the whole family would drink that and preserve their health.

Rivers and streams could have been full of fecal bacteria, just like today, especially when cattle and people are around. Even so many people have died over the years from drinking bad contaminated water.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What do you do with a man who laughs at his own dim wittedness!

Ignore the one that claims to be thinking quietly but keeps telling people about the garbage he's thinking about!

He's not the brightest bulb in the box, nor is he the sharpest knife in the draw being more than a few fries short of a grumpy meal.

Enjoy your grump chumpy day OK!

 

[ShineTheLight]

[Romans 14:17 KJV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual.

What opinions does anyone have on v13 regarding food and stomach being destroyed?
Paul is talking of those who will inherit the kingdom of God.

v13, 'Them' can be assumed to be these who are of the works of the flesh, they will be destroyed
Stomachs eat earthly foods, foods are for earthly stomachs. Since we shall all be changed (mortality will put on immortality), seems to imply foods and stomachs will be no more, as in destroyed too.

It implies that this world of the flesh will be destroyed.

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not [e]helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of [f]any.

13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

I present these passages.

John 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Colossians 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 John 2:16-17
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Proverbs 23:20-21
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

John 6:53-57
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Luke 12:29-31
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matthew 6:24-25
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

1 Corinthians 10:21-22
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Philippians 3:17-19
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

[Romans 14:17 KJV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual.

[Romans 14:15 KJV] 15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Paul was exhorting the body not to make meat a stumbling block to a weaker brother who thinks it is unclean.

[Luke 22:30 KJV] 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Lord Jesus says that in the kingdom they will eat and drink in a physical kingdom, not a spiritual one.

The fact that the apostles will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes confirms that Luke is speaking of the earthly Davidic kingdom.

[Rev 21:12, 14 KJV] 12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: ... 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

In the Holy city of the New Jerusalem the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles are found.

Context!
That chapter starts with a teaching about brotherly love, manners, particularly about judging other brothers and sisters based on what they eat or drink and/or regarding sacred or special days, Sabbaths for instance.

Romans 14​

The Weak and the Strong​

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
____
As for life and government in the Millennial Kingdom, Jesus will rule in Jerusalem and He will have anointed people ( elders who may be the disciples?) under him sitting on thrones as well. There will still be nations with authorities ruling them as well who will all be Christians. So it will be a physjcal kingdom but also ( as it is now), spiritual.
My take is that mortals will be the one's procreating but Christians who have been partakers of the 1ST Resurrection ,( rapture), will also be part of and have access to this physical realm. As angels, who have access to both realms, traveling in and out, so will we.
And btw, Jesus, after His resurrection ate fish with the disciples. However, will the Millennial Kingdom be like the Garden of Eden, where life was perfect and Adam and Even just ate fruits and veggies? With sin put down, Satan andnhis demons locked up, evil would be scarcw. Animals will be friendly towards man and eachother. So with a new system, eating meat would not be part of it. Get your fill of burgers now!
Jesus said, "Behold, I make all things new." But when will that be, the Mk or is that referring to the New Jerusalem only? In the vision of the New Jerusalem in Revelation ( which appears to come after the MK), there a trees with fruit along a river. These fruits change monthly and provide for the healing of nations. This is one puzzle I haven't figured out. Why would anyone that has been resurrected, with an eternal body need healing? Our bodies will be perfect, no more sickness or pain ever. And why would their be nations if all is under one government rule of the Lord? The massive dimensions of this New Jerusalem obviously is not a city in Israel, it is a new earth that replaces the 1st earth.
BTW Doug, I am not asking you to answer these questions ... don't really think anyone in this forum could.

 

[Doug]

Context!
That chapter starts with a teaching about brotherly love, manners, particularly about judging other brothers and sisters based on what they eat or drink and/or regarding sacred or special days, Sabbaths for instance.

​

​

Romans 14​

The Weak and the Strong​

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
____
As for life and government in the Millennial Kingdom, Jesus will rule in Jerusalem and He will have anointed people ( elders who may be the disciples?) under him sitting on thrones as well. There will still be nations with authorities ruling them as well who will all be Christians. So it will be a physjcal kingdom but also ( as it is now), spiritual.
My take is that mortals will be the one's procreating but Christians who have been partakers of the 1ST Resurrection ,( rapture), will also be part of and have access to this physical realm. As angels, who have access to both realms, traveling in and out, so will we.
And btw, Jesus, after His resurrection ate fish with the disciples. However, will the Millennial Kingdom be like the Garden of Eden, where life was perfect and Adam and Even just ate fruits and veggies? With sin put down, Satan andnhis demons locked up, evil would be scarcw. Animals will be friendly towards man and eachother. So with a new system, eating meat would not be part of it. Get your fill of burgers now!
Jesus said, "Behold, I make all things new." But when will that be, the Mk or is that referring to the New Jerusalem only? In the vision of the New Jerusalem in Revelation ( which appears to come after the MK), there a trees with fruit along a river. These fruits change monthly and provide for the healing of nations. This is one puzzle I haven't figured out. Why would anyone that has been resurrected, with an eternal body need healing? Our bodies will be perfect, no more sickness or pain ever. And why would their be nations if all is under one government rule of the Lord? The massive dimensions of this New Jerusalem obviously is not a city in Israel, it is a new earth that replaces the 1st earth.
BTW Doug, I am not asking you to answer these questions ... don't really think anyone in this forum could.

Yes as I said "Paul was exhorting the body not to make meat a stumbling block to a weaker brother who thinks it is unclean."

We can give uo what we are at liberty to eat for a brothers or sisters benefit

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes as I said "Paul was exhorting the body not to make meat a stumbling block to a weaker brother who thinks it is unclean."

We can give uo what we are at liberty to eat for a brothers or sisters benefit

True, but you said it would only be a physical kingdom:
"The Lord Jesus says that in the kingdom they will eat and drink in a physical kingdom, not a spiritual one."
I just made the point that it would be both.

 

[Doug]

True, but you said it would only be a physical kingdom:
"The Lord Jesus says that in the kingdom they will eat and drink in a physical kingdom, not a spiritual one."
I just made the point that it would be both.

I said "Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual." so thats why I said that

Yes you are right ........there is an earthly and a heavenly kingdom

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[Romans 14:17 KJV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual.

[Romans 14:15 KJV] 15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Paul was exhorting the body not to make meat a stumbling block to a weaker brother who thinks it is unclean.

[Luke 22:30 KJV] 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Lord Jesus says that in the kingdom they will eat and drink in a physical kingdom, not a spiritual one.

The fact that the apostles will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes confirms that Luke is speaking of the earthly Davidic kingdom.

[Rev 21:12, 14 KJV] 12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: ... 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

In the Holy city of the New Jerusalem the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles are found.

Where do you fellowship? Do you sit under a pastor/ teacher in order to grow as called for in Eph. 4:

Ephesians 4:11-13

King James Version

​

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[Doug]

Where do you fellowship? Do you sit under a pastor/ teacher in order to grow as called for in Eph. 4:

Ephesians 4:11-13​

​

King James Version​

​

​

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Mid Acts right division grace church

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Mid Acts right division grace church

is that a real physical body or just you referring to a scripture passage.

What about a pastor/ teacher? Are you under the authority of one?

 

[Doug]

is that a real physical body or just you referring to a scripture passage.

What about a pastor/ teacher? Are you under the authority of one?

We are members of Christ's body and he is the head

God set the church in order.......................[1Ti 5:17 KJV] 17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We are members of Christ's body and he is the head

God set the church in order.......................[1Ti 5:17 KJV] 17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

You still have not answered the two questions I asked of you.

Which specific church are you attending and are you under the gift ministry of th epastor/teacher?

They are not clouded in mystery or difficult to answer.

 

[Doug]

You still have not answered the two questions I asked of you.

Which specific church are you attending and are you under the gift ministry of th epastor/teacher?

They are not clouded in mystery or difficult to answer.

I am not physically able to attend church

I watch teachings from a few churches online

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am not physically able to attend church

I watch teachings from a few churches online

Do you physically fellowship with believers who come to youy?

 

[Doug]

Do you physically fellowship with believers who come to youy?

what is your point here........maybe I can directly answer the point of these inquires

 

[Muna]

Doug, I believe you posted Romans 14:17 over Romans 14:15 reversing the two

[Romans 14:17 KJV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual.

[Romans 14:15 KJV] 15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

------

If we start here and bring the two verse back in the correct order the two come together much better

Romans 14

[13] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[16] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

 

[Doug]

Doug, I believe you posted Romans 14:17 over Romans 14:15 reversing the two

[Romans 14:17 KJV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Some say this verse proves the kingdom of God is only spiritual.

[Romans 14:15 KJV] 15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

------

If we start here and bring the two verse back in the correct order the two come together much better

Romans 14

[13] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[16] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Good to hear from you Truly
Yes they are out of order but I was starting with v 17 to convey the topic of the post

 

[Muna]

Good to hear from you Truly
Yes they are out of order but I was starting with v 17 to convey the topic of the post

Hey Doug! Yeah but you know the two compliment (rather then contradict) the point he was making. So there really wouldnt be the need for a thread if you kept them together in the right order

 

[Doug]

Hey Doug! Yeah but you know the two compliment (rather then contradict) the point he was making. So there really wouldnt be the need for a thread if you kept them together in the right order

what is that emogi you includeed?