LIKE IT OR NOT, YOU ARE A DISPENSATIONALIST, AND HERE IS WHY

[Doug]

[Exodus 31:14 KJV] 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

If you don't obey this verse word for word, then you are a dispensationalist.

[Exodus 31:13 KJV] 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We should not obey this verse because it was commanded to "the children of Israel".

We can say that for us, the Sabbath means to rest in the Lord and therefore that is how we are to keep it.
If so, then you are still are rightly dividing the word dispensationally, because you are saying this verse doesn't apply as stated.

 

[XtraPercept]

There are labels to which I will acquiesce, but none of them have an "ist" suffix. I will accept sheep, slave, son, etc. The Spirit led individual is apt to defy categorization much like Jesus defied the rigid religious rules of the pharisees.

 

[marks]

[Exodus 31:14 KJV] 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

If you don't obey this verse word for word, then you are a dispensationalist.

[Exodus 31:13 KJV] 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We should not obey this verse because it was commanded to "the children of Israel".

We can say that for us, the Sabbath means to rest in the Lord and therefore that is how we are to keep it.
If so, then you are still are rightly dividing the word dispensationally, because you are saying this verse doesn't apply as stated.

If you are not offering temple sacrifices and still think that God has forgiven your sin, then you are also dispensational.

Much love!

 

[XtraPercept]

I don't use a theological framework to interpret Scripture. I don't take it all literally. My only point is that a label too broad is a label diminished in utility. I simply advise caution as I know I have often been too quick to make assumptions.

 

[Wick Stick]

[Exodus 31:14 KJV] 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

If you don't obey this verse word for word, then you are a dispensationalist.

[Exodus 31:13 KJV] 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We should not obey this verse because it was commanded to "the children of Israel".

We can say that for us, the Sabbath means to rest in the Lord and therefore that is how we are to keep it.
If so, then you are still are rightly dividing the word dispensationally, because you are saying this verse doesn't apply as stated.

You err, not knowing Scripture.

Moses does NOT mediate the first or original covenant. There are covenants with Adam, Noah, and Abraham that precede Moses. Moses 'covenant is one of punishment on Israel for their unfaithfulness... it gives them corrupt priests and kings to oppress them because of their malfeasance.

Christianity is a revival of the covenant with Abraham, which precedes that institutional sin. Christians are adopted under Abraham and HIS SEED, which are before Moses.

Covenants; not dispensations.

 

[Doug]

You err, not knowing Scripture.

Moses does NOT mediate the first or original covenant. There are covenants with Adam, Noah, and Abraham that precede Moses. Moses 'covenant is one of punishment on Israel for their unfaithfulness... it gives them corrupt priests and kings to oppress them because of their malfeasance.

Christianity is a revival of the covenant with Abraham, which precedes that institutional sin. Christians are adopted under Abraham and HIS SEED, which are before Moses.

Covenants; not dispensations.

Yes God made covenants but there is still dispensations. We are under the dispensation of grace..................[Eph 3:2 KJV] 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
We arent under a covenant

 

[Wick Stick]

We arent under a covenant

Certainly, we are.

God's covenant with Abraham is of primary importance. That's where the adoption happened, whereby the way was made for Gentiles to be reconciled to God.

Romans 4:

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression. 16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Doug]

God's covenant with Abraham is of primary importance. That's where the adoption happened, whereby the way was made for Gentiles to be reconciled to God.

Abraham received the covenant of circumcision and for his seed (Israel) to keep.......................[Gen 17:10 KJV] 10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

We have the promise of justification by faith.......................[Rom 4:16 KJV] 16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
[Gal 3:14 KJV] 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Wick Stick]

Abraham received the covenant of circumcision and for his seed (Israel) to keep.......................[Gen 17:10 KJV] 10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Abraham's covenant started before that.

9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

 

[Doug]

Abraham's covenant started before that.

9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

I dont think so

Abraham believed God and his faith was reckoned for righteousness while uncircumcised, so he was given the covenant of circumcision after faith.

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Faith was in Genesis 15

[Gen 17:10 KJV] 10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

The covenant was made in Genesis 17

 

[Wick Stick]

I dont think so

Abraham believed God and his faith was reckoned for righteousness while uncircumcised, so he was given the covenant of circumcision after faith.

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Faith was in Genesis 15

[Gen 17:10 KJV] 10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

The covenant was made in Genesis 17

You should have read the rest of chapter 15:

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

[Doug]

You should have read the rest of chapter 15:

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

It was still after faith
By the way this covenant did not require obedience from Abraham

 

[Wick Stick]

It was still after faith

That's kind of the point. The covenant here in Genesis 15 is predicated on faith.

It's the same covenant under which the Gentiles receive adoption. That's what Abraham asked God for in the chapter - a son and heir. God gave him not only Isaac, but also the believing Gentiles as adopted sons. "Father of nations"

By the way this covenant did not require obedience from Abraham

Faith expresses itself in obedience. Trying to divide between the two is splitting hairs in a way I don't find very useful.